Icons and the last few years on CF

[annier]

If I may say,

I noticed that you had in the post you quoted the comments attributed to Avodat - and I was giving benefit of the doubt since the computer has experienced glitches before where something you quoted from someone else was attributed to another.

For the quotes you gave were by Brother netzarim - from #268.

Hey g2. Do you know how I can fix that?

 

[Gxg (G²)]

A few comments-

First thought- we're still talking about this? Why? I keep hearing a few people yelling "Fire! Fire!" but don't see any fire. The rules are fine- trust the mods. Nothing is perfect, live with the quirks.

Second thought- be careful not to shut out people because they don't appear kosher to you. This could end up like one of the other forums- where diverse opinions (even from within the fold) are seen as "attacks" on the orthodoxy of the forum. There usually is a small few who react this way, but they make life miserable for every visitor and tediously repetitive for the regulars. Just remember everyone is on a journey and be nice to them. Their opinons will change, as will yours.

Next thought- what you don't want to stomach, ignore.

Why is this so hard for the two or three creating all the fuss? What makes their theology the only right one and their halacha the only acceptable way? MJism is big and pretty diverse, and getting bigger and more diverse, The sub-forums can handle the diversity just fine. Use them, folks!

It's easier, many times, to combat than it is to be logical when it comes to using those tools available in order to do what you say cannot be done. Again, many thanks for noting as you did

 

[Gxg (G²)]

oops, had not a clue it was happening.

It happens - and seeing it enough times throughout CF, you learn to give grace rather than being quick to assume the worse.

Hey g2. Do you know how I can fix that?

Not really certain - as the only thing I can think of is simply reading through your postings and all others collectively in the thread to see if the quotes you were dealing with come from those you responded to. Also, if in linear mode rather than threaded mode, it can help - at least for me it does...

 

[mishkan]

Christ is the head. Despite which part of the body one is, they are ONE BODY. as in your arm Messianic, my arm Christian are one body of Messiah/ Christ. We work as one.

So what are you saying here?

The problem is... the "one Body" is the Messianic subset of Judaism/Israel. Any group that defines itself apart from Israel and/or the Torah covenant with Israel is, by definition, not a part of the "one Body". It is the Christian churches that have historically defined THEMSELVES as something other than Israel, and often in explicit counterpoint to Israel.

Is that anti-Christian? I'll leave it to the readers to consider.

 

[mishkan]

Have to disagree here. The difference is that along with the Eucharist goes the doctrine of transsubstantion, where it is believed that the bread actually becomes the body of Christ as it is eaten. Same with the wine- it becomes the blood.

Communion holds that the bread only represents the body of Christ, and the wine represents His blood.

So what gg was teaching is doubly offensive and is a Catholic view, not Messianic.

Dan C

Transubstantiation is one of the differences. But it is not the sole, or universal, difference. Protestants follow either consubstantiation or completely symbolic significance. As you say, transubstantiation is a RCC doctrine.

That's why I focused on the displacement of the seder. Historically, as I read it, the Christian communion derives from a reductionist reading of the Gospel accounts, where the bread and wine are pointedly given their midrashic signification.

 

[FreeinChrist]

MOD HAT

Sorry, but this thread is closed for review and clean up

 

[Tishri1]

I guess we will keep this thread closed then till i can catch up

You have your example of what is disruptive and off topic and you have to be aware that you may have to hold off discussing things in this forum that apear to teach or instruct in doctrines other than MJ

If its to hard to refrain from those things because they are to close to your heart simply stay out of those threads ok thank you

Tish,

Sincerely, it was already stopped a long time ago...so I don't know why you even brought up. Folks walked away a long time ago since it was understood others disagreed - and I couldn't care less about discussing the intricacies of Eucharist here on this thread further.

What was asked, however, was who asked the question on Eucharist to begin with?

For you accused as if I started/made the thread about that - but that is inaccurate and I know I didn't even start the issue since it was others who did so (here and here amongst others) when another (Sister Visionary in specific) claimed no Messianic Jewish synagogue allowed for Eucharist and another responded (Sister Rachael Rachael) in asking WHY - as she in her Messianic background has been for it like other Messianics. As seen DIRECTLY from comments:

​

Any response given was a matter of offending someone at some point, be it the Messianic for it...or the Messianic not for it. You could've said "We don't allow for topics like that to be brought up here in the main forum" - but you didn't. That is odd to me since it's often claimed Messianic J are connected with the Church - and that has come up before when it comes to not blasting Church practices done in MJism.

Moreover, the person (Rachael Rachael) made a comment I agreed with - and I spoke out in support of Rachael based on what was already said in previous discussions when it seemed false information was conveyed ( #46 ) - and another responded on it when it seemed misunderstood what was said ( #48 ). Even after the issue was long dropped, others chose to bring up the subject all over again - making claims on what other Messianics believed that were not even true - and that was responded to as well ( #66 ) since no one likes having words placed in their mouths.

But you said ZERO to them when they were talking/teaching - so I have to ask "Are you serious?" when trying to zero in on others who jumped in once the subject was introduced/sustained. For I'd hate to think you were being selective in who you focused on. Again, who are the MJ whom you're concerned with offending? Because one cannot claim to be concerned with MJ - or wanting all flavors - and yet never speak up for those MJ offended when certain views against what they value (like Eucharist) are deemed to not be MJ even when much of MJ as a whole hasn't said anything AGAINST it - and noted the varying definitions of it which don't fit stereotypical answers given against it.

If you wanted certain extended discussions to go on the Bridge Builders forum (as you shared earlier in #163 ), cool - but to switch (as it seems here) and say "Debate Eurichrist .. is not only not MJ teaching but offensive historically - It's not up for discussion as its offensive and off topic to this forum" - it doesn't seem to line up with what was asked before. Why even have a Bridge Builders forum to begin with for that discussion (i.e. the intersecting of the Church and MJ Culture/theology and practices) if you now suddenly feel that even talking about those issues is not MJ?

To be true to the MJ Movement, I have to go with history ...and the entire "Eucharist is not MJ" claim is not historical since discussion on the issue has been noted by MOST of Messianic Judaism when having to correct others who give false comments on other Jews involved in it. That's not that difficult to document ( as the official Kesher Journal of Messianic Judaism has often pointed out amongst many others all over the MJ movement ) - and yes, I AM serious on asking on it - for it makes no sense, IMHO, talking on "hijack" for someone responding to a comment/accusation made when a very thought was introduced preivously by others - and NOWHERE in MJism (be it the UMJC which your own fellowship is a part of) or the whole of mainstream MJ is Eucharist spoken against as a whole.

As other Messianic Jews noted:

​

I have little peace telling extensive MJs throughout the world of Messianic Judaism they're suddenly not "Messianic" because of their historical support for Eucharist - as I'd offend them without reason.

With all due respect, I have not seen any tackling or intervention by yourself in the repeated times other Messianic members (whom you agree with at times) brought up those issues and they shared on the forum openly. Apparently (and I can only go by what's shared), it wasn't "offensive" when another Messianic asked on the issue in the forum and other Messianics discussed - nor was it "offensive" if/when Messianics shared differences of thought on the issue. So to bring up "it's not MJ" or "It's Not Kosher" here as if it was the 1st time the topic came up - and suddenly isn't MJ .....it doesn't make a lot of sense for application, IMHO.

If you have evidence, then it'd make sense for one as yourself to give proof that Eucharist is not taught in other Messianic fellowships - or address every thread made by other Messianic Jews in the history of the boards who engaged lengthy discussions on their support of it:

• Messianic History (a history of Jewish believers throughout the centuries - by Sister Visionary, where it was brought up by Visionary on other believers celebrating Eucharist with Jewish believers in #70 )

• Euchrist and Messianic Judaism

• Do Messianic Jews Observe Communion?

• What is the Messianic equivalent to the eucharist? (#22/ #59 #72 #93 )

• Anyone from any religion can be Messianic ( #36 )

• What is your personal view on Communion/Eucharist/L-rd's Supper?

• Messianic Judaism? ( #24 #1, #11, #81, #427, Was the Lord's supper Passover )

That doesn't just go away (nor did I even make any of those threads) since many of them were made by people not liking the issue - and it's why others even started conversation on the subject here (Visionary and Rachael Rachel), even though you didn't say a word to them when teaching comments were mentioned. And I am asking if all of those aforementioned threads on the forum and others are to be erased....or if EVERY subsequent mention of the issue is not allowed. Future reference is what I am concerned with. And what I am concerned with is consistency with what has occurred throughout the MJ Forum - and what appears to be a sudden 180 degree turn from that without realizing it.

 

[Tishri1]

For that is something others have noted as an issue. There are multiple instances people practice kosher - but have family elsewhere who don't (i.e. eating pork). They note where this is the case and why they don't condemn their family for it in view of what Torah says with Gentiles not being commanded to not eat pork at any point in Jewish history and why they choose to be respectful even as they keep to their standards - as does the majority of the Messianic Jewish movement. Other Messianic Jews/Gentiles in a thread made on THAT topic agree..

Think about what you just said here

This is a torah observant forum and you comment about how some have family members who eat pork and you don't condemn them

That part is fine but leave it at that don't spout off after that why is because you have been taught gentiles CAN eat pork

It should be obvious that you need to hold your tongue at that point

It's indeed very easy to just avoid commenting on topics when they come up that we disagree with....and others have suggested that one just take them to the proper sub-forum within the Messianic Judaism for discussion to occur .

Nonetheless, I still wonder how this is to be played out.

In the event that others stay out of threads where folks disagree - and others who made those threads choose to follow people into other threads that have nothing to do with the issue and they bring it up, what occurs then? That has happened a couple of times.

For that is something others have noted as an issue. There are multiple instances people practice kosher - but have family elsewhere who don't (i.e. eating pork). They note where this is the case and why they don't condemn their family for it in view of what Torah says with Gentiles not being commanded to not eat pork at any point in Jewish history and why they choose to be respectful even as they keep to their standards - as does the majority of the Messianic Jewish movement. Other Messianic Jews/Gentiles in a thread made on THAT topic agree..

But others disagreeing with that issue come in/claim "Torah Observance is not being kept!!!"......and that is something to be addressed. For when Biblical history (with Messianic Jews) and the Messianic Jewish movement at large have noted that Torah Observance was not being violated, how does it become a matter of "not Torah Observance" because someone disagrees? Moreover, if others have already chosen to stay out of threads dedicated to those disagreeing with their stances - and others opposing a view jump into it anyway/comment on posts rather than avoiding those threads - how is it practically addressed when it's the case that others make it a point to follow people around when they didn't need to?

This has come up before when the SoP talks on "we all need to respect different levels of observation" or not judge - knowing we're not uniform in the Messianic Synagogues we attend or in how we live our lives - and yet it seems debates are allowed on issues until it crosses where another is comfortable. How is it the case that people are to respect differneces if they don't recognize where you cannot allow differences in the first place?

We've had a lot of good discussions on a host of issues which others have enjoyed:

• Discussing GMOs
• Gifts of the Spirit
• The plates of the planet

Many more threads can come to mind - but at many instances, people from all sides jumped in....different as they were....and were willing to discuss because they all understood that we're different yet seeking the Lord. As long as basic respect for differences was present and people knew what others were saying, it was good discussion - and in disagreement on application, others could still converse.

Of course, a lot of conversations were discussions based in fellowship - but it tended to be the case on BOTH SIDES that something may've been said that pertained to how they practiced/lived their lives - and both sides learned to converse. It wasn't a matter of one side saying "I think eating fried chicken is Kosher!!!" and then having another side come in to disagree/blast that ....but instead, an issue of someone talking about why chicken has been enjoyable and then the conversation opening up to both sides on what they think is proper for eating chicken. For those types of discussions, love did make a lot of difference..

Personally, I've had several occasions of seeking to defend others here against other Christians (notably from GT) who came in/ sought to condemn others in saying nothing from the Mosaic Law/Torah is to be continued by believers - and claiming that Gentiles were wrong for wanting to observe certain things - be it here or elsewhere (seen here, here, here, here, here, and here). And other Messianic Jews have been in agreement when it comes to Torah Observance already being practiced in large degrees. And I definitely dislike/hate it when others seek to observe and they get hounded for it in the name of "God said that the Mosaic Torah is useless!!!" - for that's not neither Biblical or a part of the SoP. And since others are on differing levels of observance, it's a big deal whenever people condemn another because they happen to be on another level of practice.

And it's going too far when folks start belittling others - especially over observance. There was one example I can recall when there was a discussion on Niddah/the laws of purity in Leviticus - as seen here. I was reminded of one lady sharing her heart and how she sought to live out what she felt the Mosaic Law called for when it came to saying you're "unclean" and having to seperate herself from the camp if having a period. The lady later realized that her heart to honor God's law was cool - but she herself later said that she discovered she could never really honor the Law on that point as it was since it called for a Levitical Priest to examine/inspect - and was specifically related to what occurred within the Israelite land when camps were set up...and she was focused on the example of what Yeshua did. But others who differed respected her where she was and honored her as she honored them if they felt they were to live that out according to the Lord.

And that's what many have been noting when it comes to times people had good discussion on the issue...

 

[Tishri1]

For if you're going to have discussion amongst Messianics - and it's acknowledged that ALL here on the boards differ in lifestyle/fellowship and where they seek to apply Torah as they understand it - how can that be done without always assuming it's a matter of not doing "Torah Observance" the moment you disagree? So long as clear examples on the majority of issues are not brought up in the SoP, there will always be fighting on what happens.

If you hold a different view than them don't debate them about it

Don't bring in all the sources that disagree with them or quote all the members who are on your side, just leave the thread to them and walk away

Its not hard

Look at my house

We are republican and my parents are democratic

When my parents come over we remain republican but we don't discuss it with them or require them from changing their view to come over. We just don't discuss politics with them because they pretty much disagree with everything we believe politically

Same at their house i don't have to engage ever in any topic that would disagree or upset them

I agree.

I think how that breaks down is where a lot of battle seems to lie.

It often seems there are a LOT of stereotypes of what a Messianic is supposed to look like - and if discussing other issues in fellowship (i.e. what sports team someone likes, addressing an action by the president, talking on astronomy or other issues, etc.), it's assumed that no Messianic can really talk on that since it doesn't sound "Messianic Jewish" - something I find funny a lot of times since Messianic Jews and Messianic Gentiles don't always talk soley on Israel, the Festivals/Biblical Feasts or issues pertaining to Torah.

And when it comes to discussing Torah, even within fellowships people can disagree on certain things - but still be united in loving the Lord/Israel and typical things Messianics hold sacred.

On this forum, both sides have sought to focus on Torah Observance (with respect to how others are all on differing levels and Torah Positive) - but how to walk away when there are differences and spell out what that looks like is where clarity can go, IMHO.

For if you're going to have discussion amongst Messianics - and it's acknowledged that ALL here on the boards differ in lifestyle/fellowship and where they seek to apply Torah as they understand it - how can that be done without always assuming it's a matter of not doing "Torah Observance" the moment you disagree? So long as clear examples on the majority of issues are not brought up in the SoP, there will always be fighting on what happens.

It's like having someone from UMJC (in how they understand Torah Observance) and another from FFOZ or the fellowship you go to all seeking to honor Torah - and yet being ready to fight the moment your observance differs.....but still saying "We all have to respect differences in observation" in order to say they know others are at differing levels. It leads to confusion....or others assuming people try to get past things instead of giving benefit of the doubt that all are seeking - and could easily be called out by another differing than them in one area as "not Torah Observant" since all don't practice the same way.

So some things need to be spelled out - or made clear that we're going by ONE interpretation of what Torah observance is like - making a list of ONE set of foods all are to eat ...one set of ways all are to observe Sabbath - and one set of ways Gentiles are to be seen if claiming to have a Messianic view. But to my knowledge, that has never been done....

Practically, when it comes to discussions - with others from one side being for observance of Torah more so in one area and those on another side differing in where observance goes (and BOTH sides believing Torah is NOT done away with) - how does this from the SoP get played out practically in discussion?

1. This is a Torah Observant forum where those in Judaism as well as the Gentiles who are coming to Messiah, and those who already know Him, may come and grow and learn more about a Torah observant life in Messiah. We advocate Torah Observance as part of our walk with Messiah Yeshua, since He is our example and was Torah Observant, along with the disciples. This can be an area of great division with much misunderstanding, so we must realize that we are all at different points in our walk and that the Ruach Elohim (the Spirit of God) will lead people to The Truth. We realize that not all Messianics have equal levels of Torah observance. The disputes concerning this matter will not be tolerated.

2. Realize that we will not all agree with each other, or with everything we see on this forum. If an issue or topic comes to an impasse and you are frustrated, all parties involved should agree to dis-agree and let the issue or topic drop. Each poster should then take the issue to our Heavenly Father in prayer and let Him speak to each individual about it.

​

We've had several note that others have long sought to do this when it comes to observing Torah and all differing - but it often seems missed because one side may yell at others they disagree with that they're pushing "Torah Obserance not being promoted" - and the other side says others are "not Messianic" BECAUSE they try to observe in ways others disagree with/don't feel necessary.

How can both have discussion if others will always disagree?

 

[Tishri1]

Practically, when it comes to discussions - with others from one side being for observance of Torah more so in one area and those on another side differing in where observance goes (and BOTH sides believing Torah is NOT done away with) - how does this from the SoP get played out practically in discussion?

If you both agree but you think lets say kosher means biblically and the other thinks its Rabbinic, you have leeway to haggle a bit. Your both on the same page just at different paragraphs

In this case with out telling the person they cannot be a true MJ if they don't believe exactly as you,( it hurts right), agree to disagree at some point and refrain from gathering massive quotes and links to prove them wrong as that in excess is disruptive too. You should be able to simply post your side with out attacking their side

I agree.

I think how that breaks down is where a lot of battle seems to lie.

It often seems there are a LOT of stereotypes of what a Messianic is supposed to look like - and if discussing other issues in fellowship (i.e. what sports team someone likes, addressing an action by the president, talking on astronomy or other issues, etc.), it's assumed that no Messianic can really talk on that since it doesn't sound "Messianic Jewish" - something I find funny a lot of times since Messianic Jews and Messianic Gentiles don't always talk soley on Israel, the Festivals/Biblical Feasts or issues pertaining to Torah.

And when it comes to discussing Torah, even within fellowships people can disagree on certain things - but still be united in loving the Lord/Israel and typical things Messianics hold sacred.

On this forum, both sides have sought to focus on Torah Observance (with respect to how others are all on differing levels and Torah Positive) - but how to walk away when there are differences and spell out what that looks like is where clarity can go, IMHO.

For if you're going to have discussion amongst Messianics - and it's acknowledged that ALL here on the boards differ in lifestyle/fellowship and where they seek to apply Torah as they understand it - how can that be done without always assuming it's a matter of not doing "Torah Observance" the moment you disagree? So long as clear examples on the majority of issues are not brought up in the SoP, there will always be fighting on what happens.

It's like having someone from UMJC (in how they understand Torah Observance) and another from FFOZ or the fellowship you go to all seeking to honor Torah - and yet being ready to fight the moment your observance differs.....but still saying "We all have to respect differences in observation" in order to say they know others are at differing levels. It leads to confusion....or others assuming people try to get past things instead of giving benefit of the doubt that all are seeking - and could easily be called out by another differing than them in one area as "not Torah Observant" since all don't practice the same way.

So some things need to be spelled out - or made clear that we're going by ONE interpretation of what Torah observance is like - making a list of ONE set of foods all are to eat ...one set of ways all are to observe Sabbath - and one set of ways Gentiles are to be seen if claiming to have a Messianic view. But to my knowledge, that has never been done....

Practically, when it comes to discussions - with others from one side being for observance of Torah more so in one area and those on another side differing in where observance goes (and BOTH sides believing Torah is NOT done away with) - how does this from the SoP get played out practically in discussion?

1. This is a Torah Observant forum where those in Judaism as well as the Gentiles who are coming to Messiah, and those who already know Him, may come and grow and learn more about a Torah observant life in Messiah. We advocate Torah Observance as part of our walk with Messiah Yeshua, since He is our example and was Torah Observant, along with the disciples. This can be an area of great division with much misunderstanding, so we must realize that we are all at different points in our walk and that the Ruach Elohim (the Spirit of God) will lead people to The Truth. We realize that not all Messianics have equal levels of Torah observance. The disputes concerning this matter will not be tolerated.

2. Realize that we will not all agree with each other, or with everything we see on this forum. If an issue or topic comes to an impasse and you are frustrated, all parties involved should agree to dis-agree and let the issue or topic drop. Each poster should then take the issue to our Heavenly Father in prayer and let Him speak to each individual about it.

​

We've had several note that others have long sought to do this when it comes to observing Torah and all differing - but it often seems missed because one side may yell at others they disagree with that they're pushing "Torah Obserance not being promoted" - and the other side says others are "not Messianic" BECAUSE they try to observe in ways others disagree with/don't feel necessary.

How can both have discussion if others will always disagree?

 

[Tishri1]

Following our annual summer rage about rules, the SoP + all the decisions now being made, and the contradictory comments in other threads about applying the rules, etc are just causing total chaos at the moment.

Can we please have a post from the Mods setting out all these agreed variations and ad-hoc rulings, please?

In particular can we have, as asked for previously, a definition of what the term 'Member' means - how do we define who is, and who is not, a Member of any given forum? This definition is crucial to the problems we appear to have.

Very basic

Ask anyone what they think of when they see a messianic walking down the street or visit one of their places of worship....what sets apart from other christians or christian organizations

Two things come to mind

High regard to study and apply torah teaching to their lives

And celebration of Jewish feasts and customs

Take that and make that the crux of your sop clear and simple

High regard for torah observance and common traditions and celebrations found in Judaism

Do all agree 100% with in that framework? Of course not

But it needs to be there to some extent to enjoy posting in the threads on those topics

You cant ride the fence and not offend people in their threads on these topics

Stay out of posting in torah threads if you are not Torah observant on that topic

 

[Tishri1]

What about trying to look at it from the administrators point view, who is somewhat comparable to a modern day ruler of the synagogue? Will it allow them to maintain goodwill among a larger CF community and the responsibility they have towards it? Or will it allow regular members to act like an Absalom, trying to generate a community consensus that their kings aren't doing their job right?

Sometimes less rules is more ruling and people will either trust Tishri1 or not.

Thank you Norbert. Its a lot different than a "my way or the highway" outlook

We don't have that luxury like other organizations and congregations...not if we want to be true to the thousands who love Torah and community celebrations all over the world

What needs to happen here is people need to relax and allow discussion that edifies and forgive differences to the point that we try to enforce unity no matter how different our particular Torah leanings

Sometimes that limits what you say

Love is like that sometimes

 

[Tishri1]

I've been trying to come up with suggestions for adding an amendment to cover the non-Trinitarian Messianic, but after the thread 'What is a non-Trinitarian Messianic?', I'm afraid it's become a lost cause. Those within the "non-Trinitarian icon" camp have so many differing views on what it is to be non-Trinitarian and not many holding the icon could agree with one another on what it means! Those who come up with the rules, SoP, etc., have their job cut out for them. It's difficult to umbrella, when there will always be those who stand out in the rain.

Thank you for seeing our dilemma. And yes its difficult to keep all who look the same, but are not exactly , together

Same issue with our Jewish members. I must say if this area of the sight ever became Christian only we would have an even more difficult time keeping everyone in one place

I cant begin to understand why everyone just cant believe like i do


But alas they cannot

(That was a joke guys)

Nor do i wish that responsibility

I feel for the MJ leadership all over this planet as theirs is a hard task to keep every one and his two opinions happy and unified

 

[Tishri1]

How about simple requirements that make us as a group stand out..

Love for Yeshua our Messiah
Love for His Torah and willingness to observe to the best of our ability
Love for His feasts and everything about them
Love to live His lifestyle, which includes a more kosher diet.
Love Israel and its people

Sure thats it in a nutshell right?

 

[Tishri1]

One gets the feeling that CF doesn't want us here.

Actually we want ALL of you right here

 

[Tishri1]

Yep, good advice and it would probably work with properly raised and disciplined children.

But here in the MJ forum we are adults!!!!!:o

And like adults you will be treated

Seriously we are trying our hardest here

 

[Tishri1]

So your attempting to preach normative Judaism from within a Christian forum, and you wonder why your hitting resistance?

There was never a requirement to be Jewish. It is a Messianic JUDAISM forum. That is a religion, not an ethnic description.

Considering the mess here, and the paucity of actual halakic Jews, I am reminded of the following:

Charade（1963） - Theme Music - YouTube

But no matter, this MJ forum(so-called) is not really Jewish.

Off to work, later.

It hurts to be called illegitimate
It hurts when Jews say it to Jewish MJs. It hurts when Jewish MJs say it to Gentile MJs. It hurts when Gentile MJs say it to church going MJs

No one likes to be told they are illegitimate and don't belong when in their heart they know they do

 

[Tishri1]

Noachides don't believe in Yeshua

What about a more judaic view of the law? A more Judaic application of the law. At least considering allowances for the categories of groups they do?
Just a few examples.....
1. Karaite Judaism does keep the feasts, but according to a different calender.
2. All other Judaisms, teach Noachide for unconverted God fearing Gentiles.
Now, I know nobody here is going to accept Noachide as full membership. Neither does Judaism. However, can't we have an icon for the purpose of allowing greater freedom to discuss issues?
Noachides are not antisemetic, they are not anti Christian either.


Here there is the added element of Messianic. Which is supposed to bring everyone into one, and has it's own peculiar scriptures from Normative Judaism. And Noachide in this area should have full participation as "Messianic". But, I understand that will not happen here, at least not now.
But at least you all consider some additional categories as found in Judaism at large? In stead of special privileges sometimes given at random. Behave as does Judaism in this regard, and give categories that are Judaic.
Just somethings to consider.
There are actually Icons for non trinitarians, which is a view that goes against not only the sop in this forum but the sitewide rules. Why not some Icon's for those of us which do not fully fit the sop, but do fit with Judaism at large?

 

[Tishri1]

CM were you on staff before or after the icon witch hunt days

You may remember a bit of the heartache back then?

I think everything has worked just fine for years. All it requires is tolerance and maturity to make it work. The hiccups in the forum are to be expected- the internet is a free country, so there will always be adverse opinions expressed and pet doctrines offended. There's no such thing as a "safe haven" on an internet forum, and the places where that has been attempted always boil the numbers down one or two posters, then they close. A good forum is like a simmering pot where the lid keeps things from boiling over but doesn't suffocate activity to the point of spoiling the meal.

 

[Tishri1]

Good point - and on the issue, Sister Tishri has done a commendable job trying to address issues as best as possible - and I don't think the solutions given are negative so long as we walk according to them reasonably.

Why thank you brother


Please bear with me while i catch up.....