Icons and the last few years on CF

[visionary]

How about simple requirements that make us as a group stand out..

Love for Yeshua our Messiah
Love for His Torah and willingness to observe to the best of our ability
Love for His feasts and everything about them
Love to live His lifestyle, which includes a more kosher diet.
Love Israel and its people

 

[Avodat]

How about simple requirements that make us as a group stand out..

Love for Yeshua our Messiah
Love for His Torah and willingness to observe to the best of our ability
Love for His feasts and everything about them
Love to live His lifestyle, which includes a more kosher diet.
Love Israel and its people

Yes -all things we can't measure on the internet before people drop hand grenades among us!

 

[Avodat]

I've been trying to come up with suggestions for adding an amendment to cover the non-Trinitarian Messianic, but after the thread 'What is a non-Trinitarian Messianic?', I'm afraid it's become a lost cause. Those within the "non-Trinitarian icon" camp have so many differing views on what it is to be non-Trinitarian and not many holding the icon could agree with one another on what it means! Those who come up with the rules, SoP, etc., have their job cut out for them. It's difficult to umbrella, when there will always be those who stand out in the rain.

Well, as the icons do not actually mean anything now - because we have to measure people by their posts - I can't see the problem with non-Trins or non-observance etc, etc, etc. As long they do not debate it, or teach it, here, it is irrelevant, now, as far as I can see. We should just abandon the whole icon thing. Although, on the other hand, if went into a Christian forum and I behaved how some of them behave in here, I would be hounded out and probably banned for not being a Member of that group according to my icon!

It is all topsy turvy!

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I've been trying to come up with suggestions for adding an amendment to cover the non-Trinitarian Messianic, but after the thread 'What is a non-Trinitarian Messianic?', I'm afraid it's become a lost cause. Those within the "non-Trinitarian icon" camp have so many differing views on what it is to be non-Trinitarian and not many holding the icon could agree with one another on what it means! Those who come up with the rules, SoP, etc., have their job cut out for them. It's difficult to umbrella, when there will always be those who stand out in the rain.

I think that's a big point right there - for if you're going to allow for differing variations within a place and say that there is to be an umbrella of variations so none are judged - and yet not realize that those variations will come to times of disagreement and have to know how to disagree agreeably - then you'll probably run into things.

Some of this was discussed more in-depth in the thread from last May entitled Is anybody that accepts "Christ" considered a "Christian"? when it came to noting the variances within the Messianic world - and learning to respect that as you wish to be respected.

And even in threads where others disagree, there've been plenty of times people were gracious in disagreement (i.e. Two Non-Trinitarian Messianics discussing how they view things differently ) because they both were honorable in recognizing where they were at - that they were both Messianics seeking the Lord/loving God's Law - and they could discuss without reacting in assuming "You disagree, so you MUST not love the Lord or want to be accurate!!!!'.......but often, a third party arises that has zero tolerance for disagreement and that's when things get sticky. For whereas two groups previously had documented history of discussing graciously, another one didn't like it - and then it was assumed that something offensive was said that shouldn't of been instead of knowing where someone simply chose to remain in a discussion they didn't like and wanted it shut down.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

How about simple requirements that make us as a group stand out..

Love for Yeshua our Messiah
Love for His Torah and willingness to observe to the best of our ability
Love for His feasts and everything about them
Love to live His lifestyle, which includes a more kosher diet.
Love Israel and its people

I think that's a great list - in line with the SoP and something I don't think anyone here is against. I would agree with that - although on the Kosher Diet aspect, since we've already had a couple of discussions amongst members on what kosher is/how others differ in that when it comes to seeing what they value, I would think it should be noted "Love to live His lifestyle, which includes seeking to live kosher."

On where there was previous discussion:

• Kosher
• Leather jacket - made from pig skin - forbidden?

• Walmart Lolipops
• Cooking Meat and Kosher
• Shavaout and icecream sundays
• DIscussing Matisyahu in his facial hair style
• The Lion, the Lamb &...Lettuce?: Was Torah Meant for Vegetarian Leanings?
• Torah, Food & Bugs: Which Kosher Insects Would You Be Comfortable Eating?

We've had a lot of good discussions on Kosher before. Others feel that eating bugs of certain types like locusts are allowed while others are to discontinue - such as is the case with the Jews of Yemen and how they have been deemed to be "non-Kosher" by the Askenazi Jews for their views on eating locusts. Both groups are focused on Torah/honoring it - and yet both have differences on what is or isn't to be "kosher". More was discussed explictly on the subject here, here and here/here. Some here actually jumped in/shared their thoughts of where they didn't really agree with certain foods in the Dietary Laws because they were not comfortable eating bugs as other Jewish groups were - and there was honest dialouge on what it means to live according to Kosher.

There've been a good number of discussions on the issue - with all sides having good dialogue when it came to differences and yet having love/respect enough for one another to know where people were seeking to walk according to God's Torah.

 

[dodari]

Well, as the icons do not actually mean anything now - because we have to measure people by their posts - I can't see the problem with non-Trins or non-observance etc, etc, etc. As long they do not debate it, or teach it, here, it is irrelevant, now, as far as I can see. We should just abandon the whole icon thing. Although, on the other hand, if went into a Christian forum and I behaved how some of them behave in here, I would be hounded out and probably banned for not being a Member of that group according to my icon!

It is all topsy turvy!

Ah, throw all restrictions and qualifications to the winds. We have the perfect Panglossian paradigm already.

As Rodney King said; "Can't we all just get along?(Or something like that)

Answer? Hell no!!!!

 

[Avodat]

Ah, throw all restrictions and qualifications to the winds. We have the perfect Panglossian paradigm already.

As Rodney King said; "Can't we all just get along?(Or something like that)

Answer? Hell no!!!!

Sorry, I meant to show some sarcasm (or weak resignation) in my post - failed again!

But, as we are not meant to be using icons for anything useful, other than a pretty picture near our name, the whole point of having them disappears into thin air! We have no idea what being a 'Member' means or entails because we have problems with understanding our SoP and SoF, and so, putting those things together, as negatives, then, yes, I guess everything goes!

We are supposed now to work out, as far as I can see, where people are coming from by what they post, not what their icon may say. If they include the word 'Messianic' somewhere outside the general post area of their submissions to us then they are assumed to be kosher (well not kosher actually because that is not a requirement, but you know what I mean ). Those who, within that wide band, actually offend anyone must be PM'd to refer them to the rules and, if that fails, we must red button them. We are no longer supposed to tackle them in a thread. I guess the logic is they'll get so many PM's they will either submit or leave!

Anyway, it seems now that you could have a few Zoroastrians posting here and, as long as they don't actually say anything against those things we cannot agree on ourselves in our SoP or SoF, or try to convert us, they can just post away to their heart's content, and that all seems just OK - I think.

 

[Steve Petersen]

You cannot get away with this in other sub-fora. Why here?

Go to any of them and see how fast you get reported.

 

[Avodat]

You cannot get away with this in other sub-fora. Why here?

Go to any of them and see how fast you get reported.

As I said in post #125! I Agree.

 

[Steve Petersen]

One gets the feeling that CF doesn't want us here.

 

[dodari]

Considering the mess here, and the paucity of actual halakic Jews, I am reminded of the following:

Charade（1963） - Theme Music - YouTube

But no matter, this MJ forum(so-called) is not really Jewish.

Off to work, later.

 

[Shimshon]

The best course of action is to refrain from the subject if it goes against their sop or loosely goes against it. Don't look for loop holes to wiggle into ...love them they are your brother, so love them enough not to go toward offensiveness

This goes in both directions you know. Are you grown men done throwing your temper tantrum yet? Tishri intends for all within Messianic Judaism to get along. I see the complete opposite intentions from you.

 

[Shimshon]

What about trying to look at it from the administrators point view, who is somewhat comparable to a modern day ruler of the synagogue? Will it allow them to maintain goodwill among a larger CF community and the responsibility they have towards it? Or will it allow regular members to act like an Absalom, trying to generate a community consensus that their kings aren't doing their job right?

Sometimes less rules is more ruling and people will either trust Tishri1 or not.

Very good analogy there. Seems the sop is being used by some regular members to try and generate a community consensus that the existing historical body of Messianic Jews, along with CF staff are not doing their job right. Instead of trusting the mods suggestion to get along with each other they are ranting and raving about the suggestion. To love one another......

 

[dodari]

The best course of action is to refrain from the subject if it goes against their sop or loosely goes against it. Don't look for loop holes to wiggle into ...love them they are your brother, so love them enough not to go toward offensiveness

Yep, good advice and it would probably work with properly raised and disciplined children.

But here in the MJ forum we are adults!!!!!:o

 

[Steve Petersen]

Considering the mess here, and the paucity of actual halakic Jews, I am reminded of the following:

Charade（1963） - Theme Music - YouTube

But no matter, this MJ forum(so-called) is not really Jewish.

Off to work, later.

There was never a requirement to be Jewish. It is a Messianic JUDAISM forum. That is a religion, not an ethnic description.

 

[Shimshon]

There was never a requirement to be Jewish. It is a Messianic JUDAISM forum. That is a religion, not an ethnic description.

So your attempting to preach normative Judaism from within a Christian forum, and you wonder why your hitting resistance?

 

[dodari]

There was never a requirement to be Jewish. It is a Messianic JUDAISM forum. That is a religion, not an ethnic description.

Oh now I get it.

You're right, no place for us here.

That's why the song 'Charades' is so appropriate.

I should know my 'place'.

Talk about Replacement.

Sick!!

I'm outta here, since I'm a Jew.

 

[ContraMundum]

Here's the tough thing for people like me.
At my former forum, I was treated badly because I was too Messianic. I'm basically being told by a couple of people here to take a hike because I'm not Messianic enough.

Lesson in religious life: everyone is someone else's heretic, and there will always be someone who thinks you don't do enough of something.

Don't let it bother you. Life is too short to stress about such things.

 

[Steve Petersen]

Oh now I get it.

You're right, no place for us here.

That's why the song 'Charades' is so appropriate.

I should know my 'place'.

Talk about Replacement.

Sick!!

I'm outta here, since I'm a Jew.

What religion should us goy practice then? Something completely alien to what our Master practiced? I am not replacing anyone, but trying to practice the religion of Jesus minus the distinctly Jewish markers (tefilin, tzitit, etc.)

Should Peter have told Cornelius to go back to his pagan temple?

 

[annier]

How about simple requirements that make us as a group stand out..

Love for Yeshua our Messiah
Love for His Torah and willingness to observe to the best of our ability
Love for His feasts and everything about them
Love to live His lifestyle, which includes a more kosher diet.
Love Israel and its people

What about a more judaic view of the law? A more Judaic application of the law. At least considering allowances for the categories of groups they do?
Just a few examples.....
1. Karaite Judaism does keep the feasts, but according to a different calender.
2. All other Judaisms, teach Noachide for unconverted God fearing Gentiles.
Now, I know nobody here is going to accept Noachide as full membership. Neither does Judaism. However, can't we have an icon for the purpose of allowing greater freedom to discuss issues?
Noachides are not antisemetic, they are not anti Christian either.


Here there is the added element of Messianic. Which is supposed to bring everyone into one, and has it's own peculiar scriptures from Normative Judaism. And Noachide in this area should have full participation as "Messianic". But, I understand that will not happen here, at least not now.
But at least you all consider some additional categories as found in Judaism at large? In stead of special privileges sometimes given at random. Behave as does Judaism in this regard, and give categories that are Judaic.
Just somethings to consider.
There are actually Icons for non trinitarians, which is a view that goes against not only the sop in this forum but the sitewide rules. Why not some Icon's for those of us which do not fully fit the sop, but do fit with Judaism at large?