Confused about the commandment that was "abolished." (2)

[Clare73]

But Hebrews 8:13 doesn't say that the 10 commandments were made obsolete.

Correct.

Heb 8:13 says what is obsolete is the Sinaitic (Old) Covenant, which was based on the Mosaic law that was set aside

(Heb 7:18-19), abolished (Eph 2:15) and replaced with the law of Christ, which is now the law of God (1Co 9:21; Gal 6:2).

I doubt any honest Christian could stand up in the pulpit with a straight face and declare that the 10 commandments have been abolished.

Any Christian who knows Eph 2:15, 1Co 9:20 and Heb 7:18-19 in the NT could do exactly that,

because the Mosaic Law with its inherent curse has been replaced with the law of Christ (1Co 9:21; Gal 6:2)

which is the law of love (Gal 5:6, 14; Jas 2:8; Ro 13:8-10) with no curse.

There is an eternal difference between the law of Moses (Gal 3:10) and the law of Christ (Ro 13:8-10).

Too much "theology" in your post.

Please show where it is in disagreement with the Scriptures presented there.

 

[tzadik]

Yes. . .Heb 7:17, 21:

Messiah was and will always be a priest by the order of Melchizedek. It is the Levitical priesthood that was temporarily added until he chose to retake His position as priest.

1) which was the fulfillment of Ps 110:4, and eliminated the Levitical priesthood (Heb 7:11-12, 17, 21),

Reinstated Himself as the priest.

3) which thereby set aside (Heb 7:18-19) the law which was based on it for its administration (Heb 7:11-12),

Restoring what was always the case. (Him being the priest)

4) and which thereby made obsolete the Sinaitic (Old) Covenant (Heb 8:13) that was based on the expired Mosaic law.

The priesthood absolutely does not have the power to make the Law of God obsolete. Are you serious?
The Law of God hangs on LOVING GOD and LOVING YOUR NEIGHBOR and not on any 'temporary' priesthood. Matthew 22:40. Read it.

The Law of God preceded Sinai, and is not limited to any covenants or man-made dispensations. (In fact we see clearly that THE LAW of God is also part of Jeremiah 31:33) It's perfect.

 

[Stryder06]

I am not sure. You might be missing something or you might not.

I read a book a long time ago called God's Finger Wrote Freedom. Have you read it or heard of it?

Have not read nor heard of.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Have not read nor heard of.

I think it is out of print now. The author is a Seventh Day Adventist pastor; James L Londis.

 

[Stryder06]

I think it is out of print now. The author is a Seventh Day Adventist pastor; James L Londis.

Ok...
So...There's a ton of books by Adventist authors that I haven't read. Does he say something of interest?

 

[MoreCoffee]

Ok...
So...There's a ton of books by Adventist authors that I haven't read. Does he say something of interest?

Yes. His basic proposition was that he found freedom within the bounds set by the ten commandments while his childhood friends went on to live their lives apart from them, some of his childhood friends were criminals in adult life, gangsters.

 

[Stryder06]

Yes. His basic proposition was that he found freedom within the bounds set by the ten commandments while his childhood friends went on to live their lives apart from them, some of his childhood friends were criminals in adult life, gangsters.

Praise God

Kind of reminds me of that line from The Ten Commandments.

Moses - "THERE IS NO FREEDOM WITHOUT THE LAW"

 

[TruthWarrior]

but why are the food laws eternal, but not festivals, you reach into food stuff, but not festivals, why?

This topic is about the Sabbath and the 10 commandments. If you want to debate the food and festival laws then please start another thread. The fact is you haven't given us any Biblical evidence that the 10 commandments have been made obsolete.

 

[TruthWarrior]

What if you fail to be obedient in every point but try to live as the Spirit leads and still have faith?

And

How obedient does the faith need to be?

Your own conscience will convict you.

 

[TruthWarrior]

My answer is: read it again, and check out the Scriptures provided.

Your answer reflects you have not checked out the Scriptures provided.

In other words you refuse to answer a very simply question.

 

[New_Wineskin]

so the laws were not intregal to the cov? besides, temple laws were in the cov, the temple was for purification from breaking laws of the cov...dude...


lev 26;15 if you spurn my statutes, and if your soul abhors my rules, so that you will not do all my commandments, but break my covenant,

How can this even be needed ?
Those that worship the tablets constantly use the idea that "god does not change" as their "proof" that all must do their pet commands . Yet , you have to remind them to observe all of them . Where do they draw the line of where He does not change and where He does ?

 

[New_Wineskin]

are the food laws eternal, but not festivals? please advise.

This but not that - that but not this . Are those that look to stones for guidance thinking that the Law is a buffet where they can pick and choose ? But , they alone may do so , right ? We must observe all - they can observe some but not all and change things here and there for the ones that they do claim to observe .

 

[TruthWarrior]

How can this even be needed ?
Those that worship the tablets constantly use the idea that "god does not change" as their "proof" that all must do their pet commands . Yet , you have to remind them to observe all of them . Where do they draw the line of where He does not change and where He does ?

Well, nobody ever gives me a straight answer. Are the 10 commandments obsolete and are Christians at liberty to neglect them? No honest Christian would ever stand up in the pulpit and claim that the 10 commandments have been done away with. If a thief broke into your house and said, "We're no longer under the law, we're under grace, so God doesn't mind me stealing your goods," I know for a fact that you wouldn't accept such foolishness.

 

[Clare73]

One cannot use Hebrews 8:13 to say that it HAS now disappeared. Is there any reference that you have that states that the Old Covenant has disappeared? (or done away with)

Yes. . .Heb 7:17, 21:

1) which was the fulfillment of Ps 110:4, and eliminated the Levitical priesthood (Heb 7:11-12, 17, 21),

3) which thereby set aside (Heb 7:18-19) the law which was based on it for its administration (Heb 7:11-12),

4) and which thereby made obsolete the Sinaitic (Old) Covenant (Heb 8:13) that was based on the expired Mosaic law.

God's fulfillment of Ps 110:4 accomplished
1) the end of the Levitical priesthood (Heb 7:17, 21),
2) the setting aside of the Mosaic law (Heb 7:18-19, and
3) the making obsolete of the Sinaitic Covenant (Heb 8:13);

replacing them with
1) the priesthood in the order of Melchizedek (Heb 7:17, 21),
2) the law of Christ (1Co 9:21; Gal 6:2; Ro 13:8-10), and
3) the New Covenant (Lk 22:20; 2Co 3:6; Heb 9:15).

The priesthood absolutely does not have the power to make the Law of God obsolete.

In Jesus' revelation of the last days (Heb 1:1-2), which is the NT, it is the Mosaic Covenant which is now "obsolete,"
and the Mosaic law is "set aside" (Heb 7:18-19) and "abolished" (Eph 2:15).

The Law of God preceded Sinai,

The temporarily added Mosaic Law (Ro 5:20; Gal 3:19), with it curse for imperfect obedience (Gal 3:10),
which has been set aside (Heb 7:18-19) and abolished (Eph 2:15) did not precede Sinai, it was given at Sinai.

 

[TruthWarrior]

In Jesus' revelation of the last days (Heb 1:1-2), which is the NT, it is the Mosaic Covenant which is now "obsolete,"
and the Mosaic law is "set aside" (Heb 7:18-19) and "abolished" (Eph 2:15).

The temporarily added Mosaic Law (Ro 5:20; Gal 3:19), with it curse for imperfect obedience (Gal 3:10),
which has been set aside (Heb 7:18-19) and abolished (Eph 2:15) did not precede Sinai, it was given at Sinai.

So if I broke into your house to steal your goods and said, "We're not under the law, we're under grace," would you be okay with that? If you believe the 10 commandments are obsolete, do you care if people steal from you?

 

[Clare73]

But Hebrews 8:13 doesn't say that the 10 commandments were made obsolete.

Correct.

Heb 8:13 says what is obsolete is the Sinaitic (Old) Covenant, which was based on the Mosaic law that was set aside

(Heb 7:18-19), abolished (Eph 2:15) and replaced with the law of Christ, which is now the law of God (1Co 9:21; Gal 6:2).

-----

I doubt any honest Christian could stand up in the pulpit with a straight face and declare that the 10 commandments have been abolished.

Any Christian who knows Eph 2:15, 1Co 9:20 and Heb 7:18 in-19 the NT could do exactly that,

because the Mosaic Law with its inherent curse has been replaced with the law of Christ (1Co 9:21; Gal 6:2)

which is the law of love (Gal 5:6, 14; Jas 2:8; Ro 13:8-10) with no curse.

Okay, so you're admitting that Christians can break the 10 commandments whenever they want?
If your answer is no, then you are contradicting yourself.

My answer is: read it again, and check out the Scriptures provided.

Your answer reflects you have not checked out the Scriptures provided.

In other words you refuse to answer a very simply question.

My take on it is that you want me to do your homeword for you.

So in other words, you refuse to check out the Scriptures presented.
I'll give you a hint: Ro 13:8-10.

 

[Clare73]

So if I broke into your house to steal your goods and said, "We're not under the law, we're under grace," would you be okay with that? If you believe the 10 commandments are obsolete, do you care if people steal from you?

My answer remains the same:

But Hebrews 8:13 doesn't say that the 10 commandments were made obsolete.

Correct.

Heb 8:13 says what is obsolete is the Sinaitic (Old) Covenant, which was based on the Mosaic law that was set aside

(Heb 7:18-19), abolished (Eph 2:15) and replaced with the law of Christ, which is now the law of God (1Co 9:21; Gal 6:2).

-----

I doubt any honest Christian could stand up in the pulpit with a straight face and declare that the 10 commandments have been abolished.

Any Christian who knows Eph 2:15, 1Co 9:20 and Heb 7:18 in-19 the NT could do exactly that,

because the Mosaic Law with its inherent curse has been replaced with the law of Christ (1Co 9:21; Gal 6:2)

which is the law of love (Gal 5:6, 14; Jas 2:8; Ro 13:8-10) with no curse.

Okay, so you're admitting that Christians can break the 10 commandments whenever they want?
If your answer is no, then you are contradicting yourself.

My answer is: read it again, and check out the Scriptures provided.

Your answer reflects you have not checked out the Scriptures provided.

In other words you refuse to answer a very simply question.

My take on it is that you want me to do your homeword for you.

So in other words, you refuse to check out the Scriptures presented.
I'll give you a hint: Ro 13:8-10.

 

[TruthWarrior]

My answer remains the same:


My take on it is that you want me to do your homeword for you.

So in other words, you refuse to check out the Scriptures presented.
I'll give you a hint: Ro 13:8-10.

You're running from my question. It's a simple yes or no: are you saying that Christians are free to break the 10 commandments? Yes or no? Why do you keep refusing to give a straight answer?

 

[MoreCoffee]

Yes. His basic proposition was that he found freedom within the bounds set by the ten commandments while his childhood friends went on to live their lives apart from them, some of his childhood friends were criminals in adult life, gangsters.

Praise God

Kind of reminds me of that line from The Ten Commandments.

Moses - "THERE IS NO FREEDOM WITHOUT THE LAW"

You seem happy but what are you rejoicing about?

 

[MoreCoffee]

What if you fail to be obedient in every point but try to live as the Spirit leads and still have faith?

And

How obedient does the faith need to be?

Your own conscience will convict you.

Conscience only? And how obedient does the faith need to be?