Confused about the commandment that was "abolished." (2)

[tzadik]

Correct, my mistake.

It is the Sinaitic (Old) Covenant that is aging and disappearing (2,000 yrs. ago) in Heb 8:13,

One cannot use Hebrews 8:13 to say that it HAS now disappeared. Is there any reference that you have that states that the Old Covenant has disappeared? (or done away with)

and since the Levitical priesthood on which the Mosaic Law depended for administration no longer exists (Heb 7:11-12),

The Law of God depends on loving God and loving your neighbors. (Matthew 22:40) All other "assessments" are man-made and not true.

 

[TruthWarrior]

Can you explain what you mean by obedient faith?

How obedient does the faith need to be?

What if you fail to be obedient in ever point but try to live as the Spirit leads and still have faith?

God has given us a conscience to convict us. A Christian will know deep down in their heart whether or not they are trying to live a life of obedience. For example, if a Christian is living a life that they know is violating God's holy law, they will know it in their conscience. That's why Christian homosexuals often ignore what the Bible says and strive to justify their actions. But deep down they know they are in sin. Deep down every Christian knows that Paul never taught the 10 commandments were abolished. But they are suppressing the truth because they don't like the 4th commandment.

 

[Frogster]

One cannot use Hebrews 8:13 to say that it HAS now disappeared. Is there any reference that you have that states that the Old Covenant has disappeared? (or done away with)

The Law of God depends on loving God and loving your neighbors. (Matthew 22:40) All other "assessments" are man-made and not true.

here,,old cov abolished, and as lev 26;15 says, it was all about the laws. Plus it says obsolete in 8;3, and we have come to the new covheb 12, not the old, heb 12.

hebrews 10:9then he added, ‘See, I have come to do your will.’ He abolishes the first in order to establish the second.

 

[Frogster]

God has given us a conscience to convict us. A Christian will know deep down in their heart whether or not they are trying to live a life of obedience. For example, if a Christian is living a life that they know is violating God's holy law, they will know it in their conscience. That's why Christian homosexuals often ignore what the Bible says and strive to justify their actions. But deep down they know they are in sin. Deep down every Christian knows that Paul never taught the 10 commandments were abolished. But they are suppressing the truth because they don't like the 4th commandment.

are the food laws eternal, but not festivals? please advise.

 

[Frogster]

Because a proper examination of the Bible reveals that there is a moral law and a ceremonial law. One was written on paper, the other was written on stone. Why?

but why are the food laws eternal, but not festivals, you reach into food stuff, but not festivals, why?

 

[MoreCoffee]

Can you explain what you mean by obedient faith?

How obedient does the faith need to be?

What if you fail to be obedient in every point but try to live as the Spirit leads and still have faith?

God has given us a conscience to convict us. A Christian will know deep down in their heart whether or not they are trying to live a life of obedience. For example, if a Christian is living a life that they know is violating God's holy law, they will know it in their conscience. That's why Christian homosexuals often ignore what the Bible says and strive to justify their actions. But deep down they know they are in sin. Deep down every Christian knows that Paul never taught the 10 commandments were abolished. But they are suppressing the truth because they don't like the 4th commandment.

What if you fail to be obedient in every point but try to live as the Spirit leads and still have faith?

And

How obedient does the faith need to be?

 

[tzadik]

Correct.

Heb 8:13 says what is obsolete is the Sinaitic (Old) Covenant, which was based on the Mosaic law that was set aside

(Heb 7:18-19), abolished (Eph 2:15) and replaced with the law of Christ, which is now the law of God (1Co 9:21; Gal 6:2).


Any Christian who knows Eph 2:15, 1Co 9:20 and Heb 7:18-19 in the NT could do exactly that,

because the Mosaic Law with its inherent curse has been replaced with the law of Christ (1Co 9:21; Gal 6:2)

which is the law of love (Gal 5:6, 14; Jas 2:8; Ro 13:8-10) with no curse.

There is an eternal difference between the law of Moses (Gal 3:10) and the law of Christ (Ro 13:8-10).

Too much "theology" in your post.

1. God in the flesh does not have a "different" Law than the Law of God.
He makes this crystal clear here:

So Jesus answered them and said, "My teaching is not Mine, but His who sent Me. "If anyone is willing to do His will, he will know of the teaching, whether it is of God or whether I speak from Myself. He who speaks from himself seeks his own glory; but He who is seeking the glory of the One who sent Him, He is true, and there is no unrighteousness in Him."

2. That law you keep calling the "Mosaic Law" is actually the Law of God. God doesn't need to replace His perfect Law, with another one. Especially when He NEVER gives any indication of Him replacing His Law with a new one. There is only ONE standard of righteousness. Only One standard of morality.

3. Christians---if you are referring to His Elect, do not have 2 or 3 different sets of instructions and guidelines of Godly living. Only One. There's only one faith, and all who are His follow the Father's Instruction.

There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all. - Ephesians 4.

 

[Stryder06]

I am asking what the bold part is about, from your perspective.

I know. This: Sabbath isn't to be a burden. It was created to be a day that man could enjoy.


was my answer.

 

[tzadik]

here,,old cov abolished, and as lev 26;15 says, it was all about the laws. Plus it says obsolete in 8;3, and we have come to the new covheb 12, not the old, heb 12.

Stop reaching. Hebrews 8 says "is disappearing"---never says anything about disappeared/done away with. (That was my question: show me where it was removed)

hebrews 10:9then he added, ‘See, I have come to do your will.’ He abolishes the first in order to establish the second.

I don't see any "old" covenants in Hebrews 10..do you? What I do see is the entire chapter talking about the sacrificial system and temple services.

 

[tzadik]

What if you fail to be obedient in every point but try to live as the Spirit leads and still have faith?

And

How obedient does the faith need to be?

If you do a study on the word faith you would see that it is not a mere "conviction" or even "belief" in something but rather faithfulness and trust.

True faith = trust and obey.

Here's a verse that highlights this point perfectly!
"He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

 

[MoreCoffee]

I know. This: Sabbath isn't to be a burden. It was created to be a day that man could enjoy.

was my answer.

I see. Okay.

Have you been reading along in the thread?

 

[Clare73]

But Hebrews 8:13 doesn't say that the 10 commandments were made obsolete.

Correct.

Heb 8:13 says what is obsolete is the Sinaitic (Old) Covenant, which was based on the Mosaic law that was set aside

(Heb 7:18-19), abolished (Eph 2:15) and replaced with the law of Christ, which is now the law of God (1Co 9:21; Gal 6:2).

-----

I doubt any honest Christian could stand up in the pulpit with a straight face and declare that the 10 commandments have been abolished.

Any Christian who knows Eph 2:15, 1Co 9:20 and Heb 7:18-19 in the NT could do exactly that,

because the Mosaic Law with its inherent curse has been replaced with the law of Christ (1Co 9:21; Gal 6:2)

which is the law of love (Gal 5:6, 14; Jas 2:8; Ro 13:8-10) with no curse.

Okay, so you're admitting that Christians can break the 10 commandments whenever they want?
If your answer is no, then you are contradicting yourself.

My answer is: read it again, and check out the Scriptures provided.

Your answer reflects you have not checked out the Scriptures provided.

 

[MoreCoffee]

If you do a study on the word faith you would see that it is not a mere "conviction" or even "belief" in something but rather faithfulness and trust.

True faith = trust and obey.

Here's a verse that highlights this point perfectly!
"He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

Yes, that's true enough; 'fidelity' is what is used in my bible.

So, What if you fail to be obedient in every point but try to live as the Spirit leads and still have faith? And how obedient does the faith need to be?

 

[tzadik]

Yes, that's true enough; 'fidelity' is what is used in my bible.

So, What if you fail to be obedient in every point but try to live as the Spirit leads and still have faith? And how obedient does the faith need to be?

John 16:14 tells us that the True Spirit leads us in ALL Truth.
The obedience isn't a perfect one. It is a lifestyle of obedience to the Master.
When you fall, you get back up, repent, abandon, restore and continue, growing each day, learning each day and the more His Word abides in you, the less you sin (disobey/go against God's Word). (Psalm 119:11)

 

[Stryder06]

I see. Okay.

Have you been reading along in the thread?

Not really. Just been poking my head in and out every now and then. Am I missing something?

 

[Clare73]

One cannot use Hebrews 8:13 to say that it HAS now disappeared. Is there any reference that you have that states that the Old Covenant has disappeared? (or done away with)

Yes. . .Heb 7:17, 21:

1) which was the fulfillment of Ps 110:4, and eliminated the Levitical priesthood (Heb 7:11-12, 17, 21),

3) which thereby set aside (Heb 7:18-19) the law which was based on it for its administration (Heb 7:11-12),

4) and which thereby made obsolete the Sinaitic (Old) Covenant (Heb 8:13) that was based on the expired Mosaic law.

God's fulfillment of Ps 110:4 accomplished
1) the end of the Levitical priesthood (Heb 7:17, 21),
2) the setting aside of the Mosaic law (Heb 7:18-19, and
3) the making obsolete of the Sinaitic Covenant (Heb 8:13);

replacing them with
1) the priesthood in the order of Melchizedek (Heb 7:17, 21),
2) the law of Christ (1Co 9:21; Gal 6:2; Ro 13:8-10), and
3) the New Covenant (Lk 22:20; 2Co 3:6; Heb 9:15).

 

[MoreCoffee]

John 16:14 tells us that the True Spirit leads us in ALL Truth.
The obedience isn't a perfect one. It is a lifestyle of obedience to the Master.
When you fall, you get back up, repent, abandon, restore and continue, growing each day, learning each day and the more His Word abides in you, the less you sin (disobey/go against God's Word). (Psalm 119:11)

That's okay, I see what you're saying. Still I wonder what amount of obedience is needed or is that irrelevant because doing your best is all that God expects?

 

[Frogster]

Stop reaching. Hebrews 8 says "is disappearing"---never says anything about disappeared/done away with. (That was my question: show me where it was removed)

I don't see any "old" covenants in Hebrews 10..do you? What I do see is the entire chapter talking about the sacrificial system and temple services.

sorry..u r wrong, it words just like this..about the cov's. FIRST, SECOND, ESTABLISH.



8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.



Now look here, keeping in mind, that the "first" and "second" words have already beeun used in 8:6-7, 8:13, 9:1, 9:15, 9:18 as referring to the cov's. FIRST, SECOND, ESTABLISHED...repeated..by the time 10:9 comes, the definitions are established.

10:9then he added, ‘See, I have come to do your will.’ He abolishes the first in order to establish the second.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Not really. Just been poking my head in and out every now and then. Am I missing something?

I am not sure. You might be missing something or you might not.

I read a book a long time ago called God's Finger Wrote Freedom. Have you read it or heard of it?

 

[Frogster]

Stop reaching. Hebrews 8 says "is disappearing"---never says anything about disappeared/done away with. (That was my question: show me where it was removed)

I don't see any "old" covenants in Hebrews 10..do you? What I do see is the entire chapter talking about the sacrificial system and temple services.

u also keep ignoring the connection of the cov laws and lev 26;15...