Jesus was not an Arminian

[crimsonleaf]

No He did not. He said unless you repent you will perish. Not Calvinism at all.

Elman, are you saying that Calvinists don't believe the saved are those who repent and believe?

Because we most assuredly do.

 

[elman]

Elman, are you saying that Calvinists don't believe the saved are those who repent and believe?

Because we most assuredly do.

Calvinist do not believe the saved did repent and believe--God did it all. They did nothing. Right?

 

[crimsonleaf]

Calvinist do not believe the saved did repent and believe--God did it all. They did nothing. Right?

Wrong. Your ears are closed again Elman - and we were doing sooooo well.

 

[elman]

Wrong. Your ears are closed again Elman - and we were doing sooooo well.

How about telling me why it was wrong.

 

[JackSparrow]

mulberry bush

 

[crimsonleaf]

mulberry bush

Agreed.

 

[Shulamite]

I make these posts only in a fun friendly attitude also.

God may have commanded you to love your brother today, but tomorrow He may have you do something we all might be afraid of (If He so directs).

Again....>
God has commanded me (yes, before time began) that I would love my brother and that means YOU! No one who loves God hates his/her brother. And yes, I believe God ordained my life before I was born, but it would go against His word to have me hunt down a legit brother of God, born of His Spirit.. lol
Never fear!

What we (Calvinists) and (Arminians) disagree about is the ORDER in which things happen. I believe that God authors saving faith, He is the originator. If and when we respond to Him (and how) is only a RESPONSE to His working grace FIRST in us!

Calvinism=God did it first, man responds second.
Arminians=Man had the ability first, God responds to man's faith.

 

[JackSparrow]

Arminians=Man had the ability first, God responds to man's faith.

Not so. Some might hold this. It appears to be an American thing, but Arminisns in general do not.

Not quite on topic but most threads contain a lot of straw men an "you think... therefore" statements. Here is a link which details what John Wesley and James Arminius ACTUALLY believed and taught. Worth reading, especially the part

"Sir, I understand that you are called an Arminian; and I have been sometimes called a Calvinist; and therefore I suppose we are to draw daggers...."


http://www.imarc.cc/esecurity/arminius.html

Shulamite "Arminians=Man had the ability first, God responds to man's faith."
IF this is true Shulamite, why did the immutable all powereful God ordain, predestine and decree that so many should get the Bible all wrong. Including Your husband,immediate family and your church, Shulamite ?

 

[NorrinRadd]

Joh 17:15 I do not ask that you take them out of the world, but that you keep them from the evil one.

Arminians say that it is up to each person to stay away from evil. They say God would never actually effectually do something that results in one outcome over another. He must sit back (in order to be fair and just, of course) and not intervene or effectivelly bring about a result.

Perhaps you should have actually consulted some Arminians, rather than assuming we are some variant of Deism.

However here Jesus prays for God to actually do something effectual.

It is clear Jesus believed that God is sovereign over this affair, thus is able to pray God to effectually do something.

If Arminianism were true, Jesus would know better, and never ask God to do something that He knows God would not or could not do.

Frankly to me this sounds more like Calvinism, which teaches God's sovereignty is so absolute that when we pray, we're not really asking God to "do" something, we're seeking to align our wills with His so we can pretend to have a part in something He was going to do anyway, since He does whatever *HE* wills, has preordained all things, and is absolutely immutable.

Yes, yes, I know, Calvinists will deny all this, but doing so is futile, since God has preordained me to believe this way, the grace He imposed in so doing is irresistible, and I can do nothing but persevere in this belief.

 

[NorrinRadd]

Arminians=Man had the ability first, God responds to man's faith.

Sorry, no, this is not a typical Arminian view. Arminians hold that God always takes the initiative in salvation, man only responds.

 

[Shulamite]

Not so. Some might hold this. It appears to be an American thing, but Arminisns in general do not.

Not quite on topic but most threads contain a lot of straw men an "you think... therefore" statements. Here is a link which details what John Wesley and James Arminius ACTUALLY believed and taught. Worth reading, especially the part

"Sir, I understand that you are called an Arminian; and I have been sometimes called a Calvinist; and therefore I suppose we are to draw daggers...."


James Arminius The Scapegoat of Calvinism

Shulamite "Arminians=Man had the ability first, God responds to man's faith."
IF this is true Shulamite, why did the immutable all powereful God ordain, predestine and decree that so many should get the Bible all wrong. Including Your husband,immediate family and your church, Shulamite ?

Actually my husband IS a Calvinist. Most of my church holds to free will theology, but not all. Just as some in my church hold to a Pre-trib rapture and others are Post Trib! But, we are brothers and sisters in Christ.
Jesus teaches me the bible, not my church, not a pastor and not any other source. I go to church to fellowship with the body, but Jesus alone opens my understanding of the scriptures. Jesus said He is my One Teacher. Do I presume to understand all things in the bible? Of course not. "WE know in part and understand in part and prophesy in part" however, I DO unswervingly hold to the doctrine of Calvinism because the Lord has revealed this to me as how to interpret His Word and that He is Sovereign.

I apologize if I have misunderstood Arminians. However, ever since I have posted on this forum (for a couple years now on and off) my experience with Arminians is that they hold to free will and that THEY chose God and were born with the ability to choose. If I am incorrect, then I apologize. As a Calvinist, I believe I was born dead and only He could choose to quicken my spirit to His. He gave me eyes to see and ears to hear. He chose my birth. Jesus chose me, I did not choose Him..... He said so.

blessings.

 

[DiligentlySeekingGod]

Actually my husband IS a Calvinist. Most of my church holds to free will theology, but not all. Just as some in my church hold to a Pre-trib rapture and others are Post Trib! But, we are brothers and sisters in Christ.
Jesus teaches me the bible, not my church, not a pastor and not any other source. I go to church to fellowship with the body, but Jesus alone opens my understanding of the scriptures. Jesus said He is my One Teacher. Do I presume to understand all things in the bible? Of course not. "WE know in part and understand in part and prophesy in part" however, I DO unswervingly hold to the doctrine of Calvinism because the Lord has revealed this to me as how to interpret His Word and that He is Sovereign.

I apologize if I have misunderstood Arminians. However, ever since I have posted on this forum (for a couple years now on and off) my experience with Arminians is that they hold to free will and that THEY chose God and were born with the ability to choose. If I am incorrect, then I apologize. As a Calvinist, I believe I was born dead and only He could choose to quicken my spirit to His. He gave me eyes to see and ears to hear. He chose my birth. Jesus chose me, I did not choose Him..... He said so.

blessings.

Amen. Well said.

 

[JackSparrow]

[BActually my husband IS a Calvinist. M

I beg your pardon. I must have remembered wrongly in another thread that you were all alone in your beliefs and asked me to pray for you. Which I said I would.

I apologize if I have misunderstood Arminians. However, ever since I have posted on this forum (for a couple years now on and off) my experience with Arminians is that they hold to free will and that THEY chose God and were born with the ability to choose. If I am incorrect, then I apologize. ....

blessings.

I am scratching my head on this Shulamite. Whether the US is different to the UK I do not know. My conclusions at the moment is that this board is NOT representative. Posters here seem to chop and change and strain at gnats. One poster recently admitted he forgot the definition of words he was arguing about. Another stated he "liked to wade in for a fight". Many times we see posts misquoted/part quoted and the responder alleging a previous post said different to what it actually said. Futile.

Here is an interesting website that among other things, hi lights the straw men that pervade CF.
Total Control - God’s Sovereignty Misdefined

 

[Shulamite]

I beg your pardon. I must have remembered wrongly in another thread that you were all alone in your beliefs and asked me to pray for you. Which I said I would.



I am scratching my head on this Shulamite. Whether the US is different to the UK I do not know. My conclusions at the moment is that this board is NOT representative. Posters here seem to chop and change and strain at gnats. One poster recently admitted he forgot the definition of words he was arguing about. Another stated he "liked to wade in for a fight". Many times we see posts misquoted/part quoted and the responder alleging a previous post said different to what it actually said. Futile.

Here is an interesting website that among other things, hi lights the straw men that pervade CF.
Total Control - God’s Sovereignty Misdefined

I never meant that no one else in my life doesn't share in my belief of Calvinism. I had a "Feeling" of being alone, since I felt MOST I spoke to adhered to Arminianism. It's no different than me saying, "Gee, I feel so alone that I prefere ice cream over cake." It's simply an inference that since so few like ice cream as I do, then i "feel" alone, it doesn't mean I AM ALONE. I guess the better way for me to put it is, "I feel like a remnant as a Calvinist, giving me the "feeling" of being alone sometimes." Does this explain it better? lol

I don't deny the strawmen that crop up or that people are itching for a confrontation. Actually I find my interaction on this forum fulfilling for me. I don't wish to quarrel with anyone, as the Lord says not to, but when I discuss with others, it's only solidifies and confirms all the more what the Lord has given me. It strengthens in me what the Lord started. On another note, I was sharing with you MY experience on this forum with free will Christians. My experience is not everyone's experience

 

[elman]

Actually my husband IS a Calvinist. Most of my church holds to free will theology, but not all. Just as some in my church hold to a Pre-trib rapture and others are Post Trib! But, we are brothers and sisters in Christ.
Jesus teaches me the bible, not my church, not a pastor and not any other source. I go to church to fellowship with the body, but Jesus alone opens my understanding of the scriptures. Jesus said He is my One Teacher. Do I presume to understand all things in the bible? Of course not. "WE know in part and understand in part and prophesy in part" however, I DO unswervingly hold to the doctrine of Calvinism because the Lord has revealed this to me as how to interpret His Word and that He is Sovereign.

I apologize if I have misunderstood Arminians. However, ever since I have posted on this forum (for a couple years now on and off) my experience with Arminians is that they hold to free will and that THEY chose God and were born with the ability to choose. If I am incorrect, then I apologize. As a Calvinist, I believe I was born dead and only He could choose to quicken my spirit to His. He gave me eyes to see and ears to hear. He chose my birth. Jesus chose me, I did not choose Him..... He said so.

blessings.

I think you are incorrect about your having nothing to do with it.

 

[Shulamite]

I think you are incorrect about your having nothing to do with it.

Ahhh, human wisdom. Human wisdom is provoked at the thought that WE have nothing " to do with it".

In truth, I didn't have anything to do with my election and salvation. 100% God 0% Me.

YOU say I am incorrect, but does God?

Jesus said, "You did NOT choose Me, I chose you." I don't see anywhere in this statement of His that tells me I had anything to do with this.

 

[elman]

Ahhh, human wisdom. Human wisdom is provoked at the thought that WE have nothing " to do with it".

In truth, I didn't have anything to do with my election and salvation. 100% God 0% Me.

YOU say I am incorrect, but does God?

Jesus said, "You did NOT choose Me, I chose you." I don't see anywhere in this statement of His that tells me I had anything to do with this.

Is there anyone Jesus does not chose?

 

[Shulamite]

Is there anyone Jesus does not chose?

Yes. The Father chose to give Jesus SOME out of the world.

John 6:39 "And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day."

All 'OF' those whom the Father has given. Notice the verse does NOT say, "The Father gave Me every soul in the entire world"?? Jesus Himself said, "He chose us out of the world". Notice Jesus didn't say, "I chose the whole world?"

 

[elman]

Yes. The Father chose to give Jesus SOME out of the world.

John 6:39 "And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day."

All 'OF' those whom the Father has given. Notice the verse does NOT say, "The Father gave Me every soul in the entire world"?? Jesus Himself said, "He chose us out of the world". Notice Jesus didn't say, "I chose the whole world?"

So when Jesus said follow me it was a waste of words because God had already determined they would follow Him and they had nothing to do with leaving their nets and following Him--is that what you believe? When Peter talked about how they had given up everything and followed him, Peter seemed unaware that he had not done anything. Was that because Peter had been deceived by God into thinking his leaving the nets was by choice when it was not?

 

[elman]

Ahhh, human wisdom. Human wisdom is provoked at the thought that WE have nothing " to do with it".

In truth, I didn't have anything to do with my election and salvation. 100% God 0% Me.

YOU say I am incorrect, but does God?

Jesus said, "You did NOT choose Me, I chose you." I don't see anywhere in this statement of His that tells me I had anything to do with this.

Does God really say we have nothing to do with living and not dying? (Ezekiel 18 or Matt 25:31 and following) Have you noticed anywhere in scripture where it says we do have something to do with being a child of God? Look at first John--Does it indicate that anything we might do indicates our being a child of God?