Once Saved Always Saved: True, False, or Misrepresented?

Giver

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To love, be in God, to know, or to be known by God; one needs to obey his Word.

Notice Jesus told us that those who love him would keep his Word.


(1 John 3:4-6) “Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin.No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.”

John in the above verse tells us that if one sins they have never seen Jesus nor have he or she ever known him.
(John 14:23) “Jesus replied: Anyone who loves me will keep my word and my Father will love him, and we shall come to him and make a home in him.”

(Matthew 7:21-23) “It is not those who say to me, ‘Lord, Lord’, who will enter the kingdom of Heaven but the person who does the will of My Father in Heaven. When the day comes many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, cast out demons in your name, work many miracles in your name?’ Then I shall tell them to their faces: I have never known you; away from me, you evil men!”

Jesus said he has never known those who don’t live his Word.
 
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Rick Otto

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Jesus said he has never known those who don’t live his Word
Giver, what Jesus meant by that was that their very words revealed their motive behind doing what they claimed where His work. They revealed that they thought they could earn salvation. Those are the people He "never knew".
 
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Giver

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Giver, what Jesus meant by that was that their very words revealed their motive behind doing what they claimed where His work. They revealed that they thought they could earn salvation. Those are the people He "never knew".
Rick you can believe that if you want. I know you are wrong, but it is you soul.

Jesus told us to pray for his will to be done on earth as it is in heaven.

Jesus will is for us to live his Word. Sinning is not living his Word. Jesus told us that for one to love him they had to live his Word.

(John 14:23) “Jesus replied: Anyone who loves me will keep my word and my Father will love him, and we shall come to him and make a home in him.”


 
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jasonsloss

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there is so much focus on OSAS and the subject of sin in a Christian life...

I want to ask a question has there been anyone outside of Christ who walked with God that did not sin???

now I do not believe are without sin as a believer, but I do not believe we have a free pass to sin...

the bible is pretty clear that once you have excepted Christ with all your heart you are saved for eternity... John 3:16... For God so greatly loved and dearly prized the world that He [even] gave up His only begotten (unique) Son, so that whoever believes in (trusts in, clings to, relies on) Him shall not perish (come to destruction, be lost) but have eternal (everlasting) life.

the bible is also clear on those who claim to except Christ but continue in sin that they never knew the truth... 1 John 1:6... [So] if we say we are partakers together and enjoy fellowship with Him when we live and move and are walking about in darkness, we are [both] speaking falsely and do not live and practice the Truth [which the Gospel presents].

the bible is also clear on what will happen to a believer who falls back into the world and practices sin... 1 Corinthians 5:3... You are to deliver this man over to Satan for physical discipline [to destroy carnal lusts which prompted him to incest], that [his] spirit may [yet] be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
 
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DiligentlySeekingGod

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there is so much focus on OSAS and the subject of sin in a Christian life...

I want to ask a question has there been anyone outside of Christ who walked with God that did not sin???

now I do not believe are without sin as a believer, but I do not believe we have a free pass to sin...

the bible is pretty clear that once you have excepted Christ with all your heart you are saved for eternity... John 3:16... For God so greatly loved and dearly prized the world that He [even] gave up His only begotten (unique) Son, so that whoever believes in (trusts in, clings to, relies on) Him shall not perish (come to destruction, be lost) but have eternal (everlasting) life.

the bible is also clear on those who claim to except Christ but continue in sin that they never knew the truth... 1 John 1:6... [So] if we say we are partakers together and enjoy fellowship with Him when we live and move and are walking about in darkness, we are [both] speaking falsely and do not live and practice the Truth [which the Gospel presents].

the bible is also clear on what will happen to a believer who falls back into the world and practices sin... 1 Corinthians 5:3... You are to deliver this man over to Satan for physical discipline [to destroy carnal lusts which prompted him to incest], that [his] spirit may [yet] be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Amen! Great post, Jason.
 
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MoreCoffee

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Maybe not without sin, but what do you think about Gandhi?

there is so much focus on OSAS and the subject of sin in a Christian life...

I want to ask a question has there been anyone outside of Christ who walked with God that did not sin???

now I do not believe are without sin as a believer, but I do not believe we have a free pass to sin...

the bible is pretty clear that once you have excepted Christ with all your heart you are saved for eternity... John 3:16... For God so greatly loved and dearly prized the world that He [even] gave up His only begotten (unique) Son, so that whoever believes in (trusts in, clings to, relies on) Him shall not perish (come to destruction, be lost) but have eternal (everlasting) life.

the bible is also clear on those who claim to except Christ but continue in sin that they never knew the truth... 1 John 1:6... [So] if we say we are partakers together and enjoy fellowship with Him when we live and move and are walking about in darkness, we are [both] speaking falsely and do not live and practice the Truth [which the Gospel presents].

the bible is also clear on what will happen to a believer who falls back into the world and practices sin... 1 Corinthians 5:3... You are to deliver this man over to Satan for physical discipline [to destroy carnal lusts which prompted him to incest], that [his] spirit may [yet] be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
 
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Giver

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Maybe not without sin, but what do you think about Gandhi?


You need to see John was saying if one says he or she says they have never sinned they are liars.

If one is forgiven of all unrighteousness are they not then sinless? Could they then be liars if they say they are sinless?

John later says:

(1 John 3:3-9) “Surely everyone who entertains this hope must purify himself, must try to be as pure as Christ. Any one who sins at all breaks the law, because to sin is to break the law. Now you know that He appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in Him there is no sin: anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen Him or known Him. My children do not let anyone lead you astray’ to live a Read this, you need to see John was saying: “If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar.” Can’t you see John was telling people everyone has sinned, and one would be a liar if he said they had not? John was not telling people who no longer sinned that they were liars by admitting they no longer sinned.

By not believing that John is telling us we are to live without sinning is calling John a liar. John tells us one who sins has never known God.

(1 John 1: 8-10) “If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.”

holy life is to be holy just as He is holy’ to lead a sinful life is to belong the Devil, since the Devil was a sinner from the beginning. It was to undo all that the Devil has done that the Son of God appeared. No one who has been begotten by God sins: because God’s seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God.”

(1 John 3:8) “He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work”

John told us those who did not know God sinned and asked forgiveness and were forgiven, but once a person comes to know God he or she will not sin.

Scripture goes on to say that if a person who does know God uses their free will to sin there is no repentance for that person.

(Hebrews 10:26-31) “If, after we have been given knowledge of the truth, we should deliberately commit any sins, then there is no longer any sacrifice for them. There is left only the dreadful prospect of judgment and of the fiery wrath that is to devour your enemies. Anyone who disregards the Law of Moses is ruthlessly put to death on the word of two witnesses or three; and you may be sure that anyone who tramples on the Son of God, and who treats the blood of the covenant which sanctified him as if it were not holy, and who insults the Spirit of grace, will be condemned to a far severer punishment. We are all aware who it was that said: Vengeance is mine; I will vindicate his people. It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”

(Hebrews 6: 4) “As for those people who were once brought into the light, and tasted the gift from heaven, and received a share of the Holy Spirit, and appreciated the good message of God and the powers of the world to come and yet in spite of this have fallen away it is impossible for that to be renewed a second time. They cannot be repentant if they have willfully crucified the Son of God and openly mocked Him.”
 
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Rick Otto

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quote=Giver;You need to see John was saying if one says he or she says they have never sinned they are liars.
I see that in verse 10.


If one is forgiven of all unrighteousness are they not then sinless?

Not without the confession as per verse 9.
Could they then be liars if they say they are sinless?
Yes, according to verse 8.

(1 John 1: 8-10) “If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives."

On the very face of it, even if you ARE without sin, if you claim it you deceive yourself & the truth is not in you.Maybe it has something to do with what would motivate a person to make the claim even if it is true.
 
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jasonsloss

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You need to see John was saying if one says he or she says they have never sinned they are liars.

If one is forgiven of all unrighteousness are they not then sinless? Could they then be liars if they say they are sinless?

John later says:

(1 John 3:3-9) “Surely everyone who entertains this hope must purify himself, must try to be as pure as Christ. Any one who sins at all breaks the law, because to sin is to break the law. Now you know that He appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in Him there is no sin: anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen Him or known Him. My children do not let anyone lead you astray’ to live a Read this, you need to see John was saying: “If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar.” Can’t you see John was telling people everyone has sinned, and one would be a liar if he said they had not? John was not telling people who no longer sinned that they were liars by admitting they no longer sinned.

By not believing that John is telling us we are to live without sinning is calling John a liar. John tells us one who sins has never known God.

(1 John 1: 8-10) “If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.”

holy life is to be holy just as He is holy’ to lead a sinful life is to belong the Devil, since the Devil was a sinner from the beginning. It was to undo all that the Devil has done that the Son of God appeared. No one who has been begotten by God sins: because God’s seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God.”

(1 John 3:8) “He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work”

John told us those who did not know God sinned and asked forgiveness and were forgiven, but once a person comes to know God he or she will not sin.

Scripture goes on to say that if a person who does know God uses their free will to sin there is no repentance for that person.

(Hebrews 10:26-31) “If, after we have been given knowledge of the truth, we should deliberately commit any sins, then there is no longer any sacrifice for them. There is left only the dreadful prospect of judgment and of the fiery wrath that is to devour your enemies. Anyone who disregards the Law of Moses is ruthlessly put to death on the word of two witnesses or three; and you may be sure that anyone who tramples on the Son of God, and who treats the blood of the covenant which sanctified him as if it were not holy, and who insults the Spirit of grace, will be condemned to a far severer punishment. We are all aware who it was that said: Vengeance is mine; I will vindicate his people. It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”

(Hebrews 6: 4) “As for those people who were once brought into the light, and tasted the gift from heaven, and received a share of the Holy Spirit, and appreciated the good message of God and the powers of the world to come and yet in spite of this have fallen away it is impossible for that to be renewed a second time. They cannot be repentant if they have willfully crucified the Son of God and openly mocked Him.”

first off the scriptures out of Hebrews are not dealing with the same topic...
Heb. 10:26-31 is dealing with one who becomes aware of the truth, a head knowledge only, but never truly believes with their heart, is now facing condemnation for after hearing the truth of Christ they ignore it and continue to live a life of sin... another way to put this is God reveals Himself to a unbeliever, but instead of accepting God's invitation this unbeliever tears up the invitation and throws in the trash or basically slaps God in the face to say His promise is no good...

as for Heb. 6:4-6 is dealing with a warning to Jews... they did get to see the light, they did get to taste the gifts from heaven, and as for the Holy Spirit they were partakers of the things the Holy Spirit did for them....

1 John 3:3-9...
2 Beloved, we are [even here and] now God's children; it is not yet disclosed (made clear) what we shall be [hereafter], but we know that when He comes and is manifested, we shall [as God's children] resemble and be like Him, for we shall see Him just as He [really] is.
3 And everyone who has this hope [resting] on Him cleanses (purifies) himself just as He is pure (chaste, undefiled, guiltless).
4 Everyone who commits (practices) sin is guilty of lawlessness; for [that is what] sin is, lawlessness (the breaking, violating of God's law by transgression or neglect—being unrestrained and unregulated by His commands and His will).
5 You know that He appeared in visible form and became Man to take away [upon Himself] sins, and in Him there is no sin [essentially and forever].
6 No one who abides in Him [who lives and remains in communion with and in obedience to Him—deliberately, knowingly, and habitually] commits (practices) sin. No one who [habitually] sins has either seen or known Him [recognized, perceived, or understood Him, or has had an experiential acquaintance with Him].
7 Boys (lads), let no one deceive and lead you astray. He who practices righteousness [who is upright, conforming to the divine will in purpose, thought, and action, living a consistently conscientious life] is righteous, even as He is righteous.
8 [But] he who commits sin [who practices evildoing] is of the devil [takes his character from the evil one], for the devil has sinned (violated the divine law) from the beginning. The reason the Son of God was made manifest (visible) was to undo (destroy, loosen, and dissolve) the works the devil [has done].
9 No one born (begotten) of God [deliberately, knowingly, and habitually] practices sin, for God's nature abides in him [His principle of life, the divine sperm, remains permanently within him]; and he cannot practice sinning because he is born (begotten) of God.

this does not say we are without sin...
 
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Giver

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first off the scriptures out of Hebrews are not dealing with the same topic...
Heb. 10:26-31 is dealing with one who becomes aware of the truth, a head knowledge only, but never truly believes with their heart, is now facing condemnation for after hearing the truth of Christ they ignore it and continue to live a life of sin... another way to put this is God reveals Himself to a unbeliever, but instead of accepting God's invitation this unbeliever tears up the invitation and throws in the trash or basically slaps God in the face to say His promise is no good...

as for Heb. 6:4-6 is dealing with a warning to Jews... they did get to see the light, they did get to taste the gifts from heaven, and as for the Holy Spirit they were partakers of the things the Holy Spirit did for them....

1 John 3:3-9...
2 Beloved, we are [even here and] now God's children; it is not yet disclosed (made clear) what we shall be [hereafter], but we know that when He comes and is manifested, we shall [as God's children] resemble and be like Him, for we shall see Him just as He [really] is.
3 And everyone who has this hope [resting] on Him cleanses (purifies) himself just as He is pure (chaste, undefiled, guiltless).
4 Everyone who commits (practices) sin is guilty of lawlessness; for [that is what] sin is, lawlessness (the breaking, violating of God's law by transgression or neglect—being unrestrained and unregulated by His commands and His will).
5 You know that He appeared in visible form and became Man to take away [upon Himself] sins, and in Him there is no sin [essentially and forever].
6 No one who abides in Him [who lives and remains in communion with and in obedience to Him—deliberately, knowingly, and habitually] commits (practices) sin. No one who [habitually] sins has either seen or known Him [recognized, perceived, or understood Him, or has had an experiential acquaintance with Him].
7 Boys (lads), let no one deceive and lead you astray. He who practices righteousness [who is upright, conforming to the divine will in purpose, thought, and action, living a consistently conscientious life] is righteous, even as He is righteous.
8 [But] he who commits sin [who practices evildoing] is of the devil [takes his character from the evil one], for the devil has sinned (violated the divine law) from the beginning. The reason the Son of God was made manifest (visible) was to undo (destroy, loosen, and dissolve) the works the devil [has done].
9 No one born (begotten) of God [deliberately, knowingly, and habitually] practices sin, for God's nature abides in him [His principle of life, the divine sperm, remains permanently within him]; and he cannot practice sinning because he is born (begotten) of God.

this does not say we are without sin...
(John 14:23) “Jesus replied: Anyone who loves me will keep my word and my Father will love him, and we shall come to him and make a home in him.”

(1 John 3:8) “He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work”

(1 John 3:4-6) “Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin.No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.”

(1 John 2:6) “But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did”

Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.
 
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(John 14:23) “Jesus replied: Anyone who loves me will keep my word and my Father will love him, and we shall come to him and make a home in him.”

(1 John 3:8) “He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work”

(1 John 3:4-6) “Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin.No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.”

(1 John 2:6) “But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did”

Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.

So, Giver, I will ask you my questions again. When was the last time you loved your neighbor as yourself? When did you give your computer to your neighbor, not to mention all your other worldly goods?
 
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Giver

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So, Giver, I will ask you my questions again. When was the last time you loved your neighbor as yourself? When did you give your computer to your neighbor, not to mention all your other worldly goods?
You don’t understand do you? Everything I have is not owned by me. The people with whom I live own everything I have. Also everything they have is mine.

I gave my possessions away many years ago.

You don’t want to understand do you?

I have explained that Jesus had me give up all my possessions. Yet you can’t accept that one will give everything to live the Word of God.


 
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Giver

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This:

plus this:

..does not add up.

You either have posessions or you don't.
Can't have it both ways .
(Acts 4:32) “The whole group of believers was united, heart and soul; no one claimed for his own use anything that he had, as everything they owned was held in common.”
 
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(Acts 4:32) “The whole group of believers was united, heart and soul; no one claimed for his own use anything that he had, as everything they owned was held in common.”
That doesn't indicate "giving everything up", it indicates "sharing".

You don't give up TV by changing the named owner but still retaining the same access to watch it.

Giving all your money to a communal fund and drawing upon it equally with your house mates (who have done the same) isn't the same as giving it all away.
 
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Giver

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Giving one’s life to Jesus means to me, that one becomes a servant of God’s. A servant does what his or her master tells them to do.

To me being a servant of God means that his will in my life will be done, and not my will.

Jesus told me I would lose everything that was owned by me, and I did. Then for the rest of my life Jesus told me what to do. Jesus told me where to live, and how I was to live, and that included what possessions to have and use.

My possessions were never more then needed to do my work, and maintain my family.
 
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