Romney or Obama?

[JoeyArnold]

worthless still actually means unworthy and then some

 

[Shemjaza]

A slave in the OT sense is closest to an employee under current economic systems. The normal state of a Jew was supposed to be a free man with his own independent inheritance in the land that he could work on. This is not something to be debated about. It is an established fact of the O.T. teaching.

Who you can beat half to death?

Exodus 21
20 And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished.
21 Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money.

Who you control the access to his family?

Exodus 21
4 If his master have given him a wife, and she have born him sons or daughters; the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out by himself.

(Man, I'm glad I don't have your boss).

 

[JoeyArnold]

worth comes from the One who has it all

 

[Shane Roach]

I knew this was going to start happening, which is why I made this summary. When you and your kind come up with anything this progressive, I will start listening to your pathetic attempts to demonize old testament economics.

To summarize all these slavery verses up, it is illegal to steal people and sell them into slavery. People come into slavery due to financial reasons or, in some circumstances, foreigners come to be slaves after a war. Foreigners do not have to be freed. Jewish servants must be freed every Sabbath year. That is, at LEAST every 7 years.

On the Jubilee, everyone's debts are forgiven in full and everyone returns to their inheritance. Like a game of monopoly, you reset everything and start from scratch. This prevents undue accumulation of financial and economic power in the hands of the few.

This is, by far, the most progressive economy ever suggested in history.

Anyone beaten with a lasting injury must be freed.

Anyone who runs away must be allowed to run away.

So why would anyone take a beating and still remain a slave? If the slave is set free for an injury, his DEBT is forgiven. If he survives his beating without lasting injury, it is NOT. But under any circumstance, if the Master is THAT cruel, you can run away and the law is that no one is allowed to send you back to your master.

Who you can beat half to death?

Who you control the access to his family?


(Man, I'm glad I don't have your boss).

 

[trientje]

Originally Posted by Shemjaza

Who you can beat half to death?

Who you control the access to his family?


(Man, I'm glad I don't have your boss).
​

Out of curiosity, who is your boss

 

[JoeyArnold]

worthless means that we need Christ in our lives

 

[JustMeSee]

Wow, this thread has been seriously derailed.

 

[JoeyArnold]

worthless also means obama

 

[rturner76]

As a christian you would say a confessed Christian man has no worth?

 

[JoeyArnold]

in ephesians it says that a christian inherits worthiness

 

[Dave Ellis]

I already sumarized all this pages ago.

Seeing as this post wasn't directed to you... what's your point?

You do not have the right to ban all legal and moral concepts that are contained in a religion based on your false ideas of separation of church and state.

I don't advocate banning legal or moral concepts for any reason. If there is an idea within a certain religion that is good, I am in favour of that idea.

That being said, I don't know of a single good idea within a religion that is dependent upon that religion. I'm not saying there aren't good ideas within certain religions... but those good ideas would be good without that religion, and don't rely on religion to exist or be practical.

I don't care what Canada does. Here in the states, where we have more freedom of religion still than any other nation, the point is that people have the right to hold religious beliefs and the state cannot impede that. If people develop values based on those beliefs, they cannot enforce them, because the state IS separate from the church.

I completely agree, you are fully within your rights to hold whatever belief or follow whatever religion you want to. I don't argue that, and I fully support your rights in that area.

HOWEVER, if most people agree that a religious VALUE, as opposed to the religion itself, is of enough importance to be made law, we have that right here.

Define religious value. If the main backing for your legislation is based on what the bible says, that is a violation of church/state separation. You can argue whatever point you want, but you have to show why it's right or wrong from a non-religious perspective.

If you don't have that right in Canada, then I guess you should go ahead and legalize murder, because that one is in the Bible as well.

Nice slippery slope fallacy... and a completely asinine argument as well

 

[Dave Ellis]

it has nothing to do with agreeing

Sure it does... if nobody can agree what the universal church is, then how can it possibly have power over the country?

That's a great way to kick off a religious war.

 

[Dave Ellis]

More anti-Christian nonsense.

What a stunning rebuttal.... Do you expect me to retract my points based on that?

Please, show me why I am wrong rather than using the ostrich defense.

Even the blessing for the Jews is meant from Genesis on as a blessing for all people.

Which is why God ordered the Isrealites to conquer, kill, enslave and rape various other countries numerous times in the old testament.

 

[JoeyArnold]

the universal church rules through morality

 

[Dave Ellis]

You have had ample opportunity to explain this in terms other than the ones I used. I have yet to see you even begin to do so. You obviously think anyone who accepts Christianity is an idiot, and that would include literally centuries of Christians that form the backbone of western culture and philosophy.

It's no "straw man". It Dave Ellis, in his own words.

Why would I explain that in terms other than YOU used? The point was, you have misstated what I said, and are trying to attack me based on an argument I never made.

I don't think anyone who accepts Christianity is an idiot, far from it.... there's some very intelligent Christians out there, they just happen to be wrong about their religious beliefs. Francis Collins is a shining example of this.

So please address my actual point.... are you disputing that Christianity teaches we are all unworthy sinners deserving of hell, and are therefore in need of salvation?

 

[Dave Ellis]

The difference between man's "worth" and God's "worth" is that, while we are still doing things that are unjust, God sees worth enough to make huge sacrifices for us,

How does an omnipotent being make a sacrifice while still remaining omnipotent? It makes no sense.

whereas in the world of man, such as Dave Ellis' world, if you are doing something wrong, obviously you have NO worth.

Where on earth did you get that idea? I have never made that case, and am actually offended by the concept. I have far more respect for people, and believe everyone has worth whether they are doing something wrong or not.... mistakes happen.

It's your religion that tries to show we are all unworthy, which is one of the reasons I believe it is immoral.

We all sin, therefore we are all worthless in Dave Ellis' eyes.

You should open up a strawman business... you sure craft some top quality ones.

We all sin, therefore God sacrifices Himself in the person of the Word made flesh for the good of all, whoever is willing to come.

THAT'S how much GOD thinks you're worth.

Where was the sacrifice? Please explain to me what was sacrificed by god?

 

[JoeyArnold]

worthless also means that things are not going to make sense

 

[Dave Ellis]

the bible says that nobody can know for sure who is in the actual universal church or not

That's quite convenient.

 

[Dave Ellis]

Because DAVE ELLIS says so.

The church he is speaking of is a spiritual institution. It is formed of all believers, whosoever is actually a believer, from all Christian "sects".

Since only God can rightly judge the heart, and since Christianity is specifically a spiritual belief, there is no way for us to know for sure who is who. This is why we wait for God's judgement. In the meantime, God has told us beforehand to watch for the grossly false preachers and teachers.

The point he was referring to, and you are steering the topic away from is what Church should have control over government.

So, go ahead, answer, which Church is the right one. The "universal" church is a non-answer, as every sect is going to think they are the universal church.

 

[JoeyArnold]

the universe church is more about the principles and not about just the people