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Romney or Obama?

Discussion in 'Ethics & Morality' started by JoeyArnold, Oct 4, 2012.

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  1. Dave Ellis

    Dave Ellis Contributor

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    So, if we are indeed worthy, then why do we need to be redeemed? Why is Jesus needed?

    If God thinks we're all hunky-dory, then it shouldn't be a problem getting into heaven just as we are... Jesus then becomes irrelevant.

    Your religion (or at least major sects within your religion) teaches we are flawed and not worthy of God, and without Jesus we will burn in hell for all eternity. If we have value to your God, why would he toss us in a fire pit?

    So please, drop the crap... I've heard everything I write about from Christians, I'm not just making this stuff up off the top of my head. You can't possibly be ignorant to the point that you can claim this isn't taught on a fairly widespread basis within your own religion either.
     
  2. Dave Ellis

    Dave Ellis Contributor

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    See Shane... Joey thinks so, and he gets his data from the same book you do.

    I rest my case.
     
  3. JoeyArnold

    JoeyArnold Well-Known Member

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    worthless means that we cannot attain perfection in and of ourselves
     
  4. Dave Ellis

    Dave Ellis Contributor

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    It's taught that we are born into sin... therefore sinner does not mean we make mistakes, as newborn babies have not had any opportunity to make a mistake.

    And by worthless, I am referring to the "not worthy" aspect, as in we are not worthy of God's grace and whatnot, which is also a widespread belief among many Christian sects..... and they go on to say that's how loving God is, because he loves us when we don't deserve it, etc.

    You can't possibly argue that kind of thing is not said on a regular basis
     
  5. JoeyArnold

    JoeyArnold Well-Known Member

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    worthless means we are not worthy of that grace
     
  6. Dave Ellis

    Dave Ellis Contributor

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    Ah, IN YOUR OPINION.... you see, that's the problem with doctrines. You are basing things off your own morality, and that is in conflict with the actual doctrine.

    I should note, I applaud you for this, as your view is better than the doctrine. However, both are still ultimately incorrect

    Putting words in God's Mouth? You seem to do an awful lot of that as well... not to mention putting words in other peoples mouths too.
     
  7. JoeyArnold

    JoeyArnold Well-Known Member

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    it transcends all opinions
     
  8. Dave Ellis

    Dave Ellis Contributor

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    Yes, you are.

    Joey disagrees with you, as do many more Christians.

    And as for your last point... so you are claiming that God sacrificed himself to himself, to create a loophole around a law that he invented, to correct a flawed being made by a perfect, omnipotent, omniscient being.

    ... yeah, makes complete sense to me.

    I never claimed there aren't evil people.
     
  9. JoeyArnold

    JoeyArnold Well-Known Member

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    sinning can get you killed physically speaking
     
  10. JustMeSee

    JustMeSee Contributor

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    I doubt his family shares your view.
     
  11. JoeyArnold

    JoeyArnold Well-Known Member

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    families are too close to see the truth
     
  12. Dave Ellis

    Dave Ellis Contributor

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    Dishonest and insulting? I quoted the exact verses that back up my case.

    Slavery is clearly condoned within the bible, and instructions on how to treat slaves, and even the values you can sell them at are contained within the book.

    Stealing another man is a capital offense... Selling slaves are not.

    If you argue this point, you are pointing out one of the clear contradictions in the bible.
     
  13. JoeyArnold

    JoeyArnold Well-Known Member

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    the united nation is going to make sure obama wins
     
  14. Dave Ellis

    Dave Ellis Contributor

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    Because brothers sell each other, consider each other property, drive spikes through each others ears and beat each other severely... as long as they don't die within a couple days.

    And slaves were not treated that way in Rome... unskilled slaves lived very hard lives under very bad conditions and usually died quite young as a result. They were not considered people, and had no rights.
     
  15. Dave Ellis

    Dave Ellis Contributor

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    I never made that case at all... I simply said Christianity teaches we are worthless / not worthy.

    I never tied that to promoting morally bankrupt behaviour, those are your words.
     
  16. JoeyArnold

    JoeyArnold Well-Known Member

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    the slaves of the bible were more like servants, maid servants, maids, housekeeping, butlers, workers
     
  17. Dave Ellis

    Dave Ellis Contributor

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    This is false... the US justice system is descended from English Common Law, which was based before it on Roman Law.

    And the 10 commandments certainly do not form the basis of the legal system... only two commandments (dont kill and don't steal) are against United States law, and both concepts predate the ten commandments by centuries.

    Other commandments go directly against the constitution, or are non-starters when it comes to the basis of society.
     
  18. Dave Ellis

    Dave Ellis Contributor

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    Agreed... Shane apparently has a different book than you do though
     
  19. JustMeSee

    JustMeSee Contributor

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    But who knows you better than God and your family?

    I have a strong feeling Romney is going to win. I haven't heard anything about the United Nations manipulating the election.
     
  20. Dave Ellis

    Dave Ellis Contributor

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    That has nothing to do with being sinful, that has to do with preventing someone taking over government and proclaiming themselves the king or whatnot.

    I don't believe in the concept of sin, but if I was creating a government, I'd put those same checks and balances in place....

    Therefore, unless you have specific documentation that shows Sin was their motivation, then you are making a baseless claim.
     
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