Romney or Obama?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Shane Roach

Well-Known Member
Mar 13, 2002
14,546
1,328
56
✟23,036.00
Faith
Christian
The bible does not say all men are created equal... in fact the bible speaks quite clearly of God's chosen people (and by extension God's not-chosen people), advocates slavery, and considers women as property (granted, they aren't "men", but I would imagine the bible should still be more enlightened in that area if it were truly moral and divine).

More anti-Christian nonsense.

quote--------------------------
John 3:16

16 For God so loved the world , that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
KJV


Even the blessing for the Jews is meant from Genesis on as a blessing for all people.

quote-------------------------
Gen 22:18

18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.
KJV
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Shane Roach

Well-Known Member
Mar 13, 2002
14,546
1,328
56
✟23,036.00
Faith
Christian
By extrapolate, you must mean by putting words in my mouth.

I've never made that argument, and don't even agree with it at all.... This is another example of a strawman.

Rather than making up arguments I disagree with and then try to pin them on me, try actually addressing what I've said.

What you said was this.

And trying to use the bible to promote the idea that humans have "worth and dignity" is absurd. The message contained in the bible is that we're all worthless sinners deserving of eternal damnatio.

You have had ample opportunity to explain this in terms other than the ones I used. I have yet to see you even begin to do so. You obviously think anyone who accepts Christianity is an idiot, and that would include literally centuries of Christians that form the backbone of western culture and philosophy.

It's no "straw man". It Dave Ellis, in his own words.
 
Upvote 0

Desk trauma

Front row at the dumpster fire of the republic
Supporter
Dec 1, 2011
20,190
16,169
✟1,173,012.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
it has nothing to do with agreeing

Tens of thousands of Christians sects, tens of thousands of ideas of what the church is, who is a part of it, who is damned who is saved, with many of them being mutual exclusive. If it cannot be agreed up upon who is a part of the church, which church should have the power how shall that matter be settled?
 
Upvote 0

Desk trauma

Front row at the dumpster fire of the republic
Supporter
Dec 1, 2011
20,190
16,169
✟1,173,012.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
the universal church are people who are following after the ways of Christ

As I have said, there are tens of thousands of sects with differing ideas of what that means.
 
Upvote 0

Shane Roach

Well-Known Member
Mar 13, 2002
14,546
1,328
56
✟23,036.00
Faith
Christian
The difference between man's "worth" and God's "worth" is that, while we are still doing things that are unjust, God sees worth enough to make huge sacrifices for us, whereas in the world of man, such as Dave Ellis' world, if you are doing something wrong, obviously you have NO worth.

We all sin, therefore we are all worthless in Dave Ellis' eyes.

We all sin, therefore God sacrifices Himself in the person of the Word made flesh for the good of all, whoever is willing to come.

THAT'S how much GOD thinks you're worth.
 
Upvote 0

Shane Roach

Well-Known Member
Mar 13, 2002
14,546
1,328
56
✟23,036.00
Faith
Christian
As I have said, there are tens of thousands of sects with differing ideas of what that means.

No, there's not.

There's tens of thousands of people, partially misled by the spirit of anti-Christ, which works to divide the faithful as has been explained since the earliest saints.

1 John 4:1-3
4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
KJV

It's amazing how you make so light of the fact that there ARE thousands of Christian "sects". What you mean is that Christianity has spread across the entire planet, as predicted by Christian prophets from the beginning. No mean feat considering Christianity's origins.
 
Upvote 0

Dave Ellis

Contributor
Dec 27, 2011
8,933
821
Toronto, Ontario
✟52,315.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
CA-Conservatives
There is no such thing as "free market capitalism". "Limited Government" capitalism leaves huge corporations as de-facto governments.

It is essentially the same thing as socialism, communism, and fascism.

I've been watching this bastard child of the modern "left" and "right" coming together for some time now. It's nothing new. It's a rollback to approximately 1890.


Interesting.... So in that sense, I'm more right wing than you are.

That's kinda funny actually...

Granted, I also agree corporations should not be allowed to grow too powerful, as monopolies are counterproductive to society... but that can still be addressed through business law (i.e. the Imperial Oil breakup) or heavy taxation levied upon corporations that start to grow too big. Still, care must be taken that these businesses aren't overtaxed to the point that they'd move operations out of the country.

That will help in keeping personal income tax and small business taxes down. Lower personal income tax makes provides more spending power, which will help spark the economy and promote investment, while lower small business tax makes it far easier for small businesses to grow and employ people.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Dave Ellis

Contributor
Dec 27, 2011
8,933
821
Toronto, Ontario
✟52,315.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
CA-Conservatives
No, because I can answer each and every one of them.

What you really ought to do is find yourself another hobby besides hanging out on a Christian site demeaning people about a religion you clearly have no interest in understanding.


There's a difference between debate and demeaning. Again, if you're offended, I'm sorry, but that's your problem.

One of the foundational points of Christianity is that we're worthless sinners in need of salvation. Without that base foundational point, Jesus is irrelevant. And personally, it's a morally sick doctrine as far as I'm considered.
 
Upvote 0

Shane Roach

Well-Known Member
Mar 13, 2002
14,546
1,328
56
✟23,036.00
Faith
Christian
There is no one church like that

Because DAVE ELLIS says so.

The church he is speaking of is a spiritual institution. It is formed of all believers, whosoever is actually a believer, from all Christian "sects".

Since only God can rightly judge the heart, and since Christianity is specifically a spiritual belief, there is no way for us to know for sure who is who. This is why we wait for God's judgement. In the meantime, God has told us beforehand to watch for the grossly false preachers and teachers.
 
Upvote 0

Dave Ellis

Contributor
Dec 27, 2011
8,933
821
Toronto, Ontario
✟52,315.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
CA-Conservatives
You're being ridiculous.

You need to either back off of your offensive anti-Christian rhetoric or else stop pretending to be reasonable, one of the two. No fair minded person confuses you for someone concerned about the ad hominem attacks and straw-men.


And yet in this response, you ignore my points again and instead attack me.

You're proving my points for me.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Shane Roach

Well-Known Member
Mar 13, 2002
14,546
1,328
56
✟23,036.00
Faith
Christian
There's a difference between debate and demeaning. Again, if you're offended, I'm sorry, but that's your problem.

One of the foundational points of Christianity is that we're worthless sinners in need of salvation. Without that base foundational point, Jesus is irrelevant. And personally, it's a morally sick doctrine as far as I'm considered.

That is an obvious gross misstatement. If we were worthless, God would not trouble Himself with salvation.

Your post here is the refutation to your claim to be merely debating. There is no way you are unfamiliar with the literally HUNDREDS of verses in the Bible about love, human value, and forgiveness. You are choosing, purposefully, to be both obtuse and offensive, all the while smiling and claiming to be sincere in your wish to discuss things politely.

That is just breathtakingly evil.
 
Upvote 0

Shane Roach

Well-Known Member
Mar 13, 2002
14,546
1,328
56
✟23,036.00
Faith
Christian
we are still worthless

Not so, in my opinion. God gives us worth. If God finds us worthwhile, really, who are we to argue?

I think you are taking it too far, and playing into the hands of God's enemies with that statement. I would be careful of putting words in God's mouth.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Shane Roach

Well-Known Member
Mar 13, 2002
14,546
1,328
56
✟23,036.00
Faith
Christian
One of the foundational points of Christianity is that we're worthless sinners in need of salvation. Without that base foundational point, Jesus is irrelevant. And personally, it's a morally sick doctrine as far as I'm considered.

And yet in this response, you ignore my points again and instead attack me.

You're proving my points for me.

I'm attacking YOU?

I've addressed the only point you have ad nauseum. The Bible does not teach that to sin is to become utterly worthless. It teaches that sin leads to death, but God so loved you that he Gave his only begotten son for you.

If you don't think people are evil, look around.
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.