• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Downward mobility in Obama's jobless recovery

variant

Happy Cat
Jun 14, 2005
23,790
6,591
✟315,332.00
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Single
Thanks for that chart which reflects the Clinton recession inherited by Bush and the recovery following the tax cuts with unemployment dropping from over 6% to almost 4%. Those are the jobs you asked about.

You mean he inherited a slight recession and later moved unemployment down 2% while being propped up by the housing bubble in 8 years before ending up crashing the economy to nearly 10% unemployment?

You are bad at analysis....

Do you even think about your posts? Obama inherited MORE than a slight recession and is on track to lower the unemployment rate by much more than 2% in 8 years.

bush-vs-obama-unemployment-january-2012-data.jpg%3Fw%3D640


So, if Bush's economic response to the slight recession was good, why is Obamas response to the much larger collapse bad?
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

MachZer0

Caught Between Barack and a Hard Place
Mar 9, 2005
61,058
2,302
✟94,109.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
You mean he inherited a slight recession and later moved unemployment down 2% while being propped up by the housing bubble in 8 years before ending up crashing the economy to nearly 10% unemployment?

You are bad at analysis....

Do you even think about your posts? Obama inherited MORE than a slight recession and is on track to lower the unemployment rate by much more than 2% in 8 years.

bush-vs-obama-unemployment-january-2012-data.jpg%3Fw%3D640


So, if Bush's economic response to the slight recession was good, why is Obamas response to the much larger collapse bad?
The recession inherited by Obama has nothing to do with the question I was asked. :wave:
 
Upvote 0

Gxg (G²)

Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7)
Site Supporter
Jan 25, 2009
19,765
1,429
Good Ol' South...
Visit site
✟209,750.00
Faith
Oriental Orthodox
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
The 20 years of outsourcing we have have had, threaten to dismantle our production capacity, and with it our ability to create jobs. There have been real and lasting effects on average incomes and all the rest of it:

Daily Kos: Is the American middle class starting to lose hope?

I'm telling ya, Obama is the only one who is willing to do something about the outsourcing. The GOP's in Congress won't even discuss it.

I really wish people would support him more in what it is he was trying to do with Green-Collar" jobs and keeping jobs here locally....
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
T

Thekla

Guest
Easy G (G²);61283053 said:
I really wish people would support him more in what it is he was trying to do with Green Collar jobs and keeping jobs here locally...

I agree ( "insourcing" is reportedly a growing trend, apparently a side effect of rising oil prices).

On "green jobs" - we've lost our competitive edge in that sector. At least four countries that I know of (in the Middle East, Asia, and Europe) are well ahead of us in R&D and implementation in alternative energy. The Brits have developed a paint that absorbs pollution, improving air quality in urban areas. Super-polluted city tries to clean itself with smog-eating paint | AECDigest

The global market is eager to buy green tech.

I guess the US is satisfied to remain importers instead of entrepreneurs.
 
Upvote 0

Gxg (G²)

Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7)
Site Supporter
Jan 25, 2009
19,765
1,429
Good Ol' South...
Visit site
✟209,750.00
Faith
Oriental Orthodox
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
I agree ( "insourcing" is reportedly a growing trend, apparently a side effect of rising oil prices)..
Indeed..
On "green jobs" - we've lost our competitive edge in that sector. At least four countries that I know of (in the Middle East, Asia, and Europe) are well ahead of us in R&D and implementation in alternative energy. The Brits have developed a paint that absorbs pollution, improving air quality in urban areas. Super-polluted city tries to clean itself with smog-eating paint | AECDigest

The global market is eager to buy green tech.

I guess the US is satisfied to remain importers instead of entrepreneurs
I think we have many of the same capabilities as other nations to do the same, if not more, seeing the many that've invested in green-collar resources and innovation via environment. However, what keeps funding back on a large scale is many have stereotypes of such careers (never mind that they surround people daily in a myriad of ways)--and thus, people resist what could help them while the rest of the world falls back. Great scientific minds such as George Washington Carver (one of my all time favorite heros in the faith) were decades ahead of their time when it came to things such as ethanol based on corn syrup---and as he already revolutionized the agriculture of the South/saved it and even made inventions used in car doors via plants, he should have been listened to when he was encouraging others to look into industrial uses from agriculture and biotechnology.

They already have the resources to make fuel from algae--with 5 companies already using it....and we could do well with all of the trash/waste we make if we'd learn to make sustainable resources from it as other countries have....but so long as Big Buisnesses with oil/traditional energy sources keep up the mantra that alternative cannot be invested in without financial damage and unsustainabiltiy (despite where the traditional is already running out and has been shown to always be damaging long term), you'll see more of the same.

But things can change and I'm glad for others leading the way. Be it Will Alan of Growing Power or Majora Carter or Van Jones (of "The Green Economy"):

GREEN JOBS NOT JAILS - The Third Wave of Environmentalism
The Green Collar Economy - Van Jones of the Center for ...
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

SolomonVII

Well-Known Member
Sep 4, 2003
23,138
4,919
Vancouver
✟162,516.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Greens
...
.....
On the upside we are the world's third largest exporter behind China and Germany as of 2010.
Also on the upside is the role that technology, hydrological frakking, horizontal drilling and the like, is playing and will be playing in the future that already has America a net exporter of LNG.

What has been done to natural gas, will be happening to oil technology as well.
Unlike Europe, in terms of emissions, America's are actually going down, and this has a lot to do with natural gas being a clean fuel, not just for heating but for generating electricity and the like.

The major challenge here of course is to learn how to measure risks, and compare the risk of depending on unstable and unethical resources coming from what are countries with values inimical to the US, with the very low risks that are posed to the environment.

The major challenge to the US is rationalizing the bureaucracy, to minimize the poltics of fear and hyperbole that have had a paralyzing effect on anything dependent on energy, which is of course everything!

America is well poised to continue in its role of economic leadership, but it is really very much up to the will of the voter.
 
Upvote 0
T

Thekla

Guest
Easy G (G²);61283185 said:
Indeed..
I think we have many of the same capabilities as other nations to do the same, if not more, seeing the many that've invested in green-collar resources and innovation via environment. However, what keeps funding back on a large scale is many have stereotypes of such careers (never mind that they surround people daily in a myriad of ways)--and thus, people resist what could help them while the rest of the world falls back. Great scientific minds such as George Washington Carver (one of my all time favorite heros in the faith) were decades ahead of their time when it came to things such as ethanol based on corn syrup---and as he already revolutionized the agriculture of the South/saved it and even made inventions used in car doors via plants, he should have been listened to when he was encouraging others to look into industrial uses from agriculture and biotechnology.

They already have the resources to make fuel from algae--with 5 companies already using it....and we could do well with all of the trash/waste we make if we'd learn to make sustainable resources from it as other countries have....but so long as Big Buisnesses with oil/traditional energy sources keep up the mantra that alternative cannot be invested in without financial damage and unsustainabiltiy (despite where the traditional is already running out and has been shown to always be damaging long term), you'll see more of the same.

But things can change and I'm glad for others leading the way. Be it Will Alan of Growing Power or Majora Carter or Van Jones (of "The Green Economy"):

GREEN JOBS NOT JAILS - The Third Wave of Environmentalism
The Green Collar Economy - Van Jones of the Center for ...

:)sorry: still no sound - we need a thumb drive transfer from my son's computer ...)

I do agree, the "marriage" of business and government can be contrary to competitive development. Oil has such a long history of subsidy, and is also - it seems - nostalgically wound in the country's history.

US Universities have been doing some interesting work - an example
(http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2012/infrared-photovoltaic-0621.html)

Inventors and early proponents of new technology don't always reap the rewards of their work - and sometimes I wonder whether in the US this phenomenon retards the willingness to invest and start with new tech.
 
Upvote 0

Gxg (G²)

Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7)
Site Supporter
Jan 25, 2009
19,765
1,429
Good Ol' South...
Visit site
✟209,750.00
Faith
Oriental Orthodox
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
:)sorry: still no sound - we need a thumb drive transfer from my son's computer ...)
.
Man, that's a bummer. Praying that you'll be able to work it out because it's worth listening to. His books, however, are also available online...seen here and here.

I do agree, the "marriage" of business and government can be contrary to competitive development. Oil has such a long history of subsidy, and is also - it seems - nostalgically wound in the country's history.
That....and the ways we use oil go beyond gasoline, as it's in everyday products. Diapers, in example, are made from it and other things as well that are apart of everyday life. And what I'm saying doesn't just apply to oil. It applies to a myriad of ways that environmental damage is done to others and people don't take seriously the ways that it harms others, such as what has happened with many rural communities and minining when mountaintops are destroyed regularly and it harms people in their natural supplies (i.e. water, air, etc)...but not many care about strip mining and the damage it does. People are able to make money and jobs...and that's the focus for a lot of people.




The same thing goes for toxic/environmental racism, ironically championed by many saying that we need to have alternative resources and be better stewards of what we have, as what often happens is akin to environmental aparteid...with rich communities doing very well/cleaned up often while those who are in impoverished areas recieve all of the waste and garbage.

As another noted best:

In the small, suburban, working-class town of Kennedy Heights, Texas, hundreds of individuals complain of rashes, headaches, and a water supply contaminated with oil and toxins. More serious health issues also plague these unsuspecting residents, such as cancerous brain tumors, cancer, lupus, birth defects, menstrual problems, and even death. As one resident described, people are dropping like flies, getting sick. Homebuyers purchased newly built homes within the town several decades ago, but at that time no one informed them the properties were located on top of an oil dump, abandoned since the 1920s. The homeowners are now left in a precarious situation, as they can't sell [their] houses and [they] can't afford to leave. The sheer number of Kennedy Heights residents impacted by the toxic oil dump's adverse effects has drawn national attention, but this particular town attracted even wider attention because of the accusations of environmental racism.


The small town of Kennedy Heights, located outside of Houston, Texas, is comprised mostly of African-American residents. Unfortunately, the adverse health and environmental effects that the Kennedy Heights residents now experience are not uncommon among racial minority communities. In fact, many studies reveal that toxic waste sites are typically located adjacent to, or within, communities primarily populated with racial minorities. Another such community is Chester, Pennsylvania.

Environmental racism is the term often used to link federally funded environmental programs to discriminatory impacts. Although this Comment focuses on environmental racism and the deliberate placement of noxious facilities in certain communities, environmental racism encompasses a broad array of discriminatory practices. These practices include: (1) the increased likelihood of exposure to environmental dangers; (2) the differential cleanup rate of environmental contaminants in communities with various racial groups; (3) the concentration of ethnic minority workers in dangerous and unsanitary jobs; (4) the deficient upkeep of environmental amenities, such as parks and playgrounds; and (5) the incomparable provision of environmental services, such as garbage removal and transportation.
The reality of favoritism and prejudice will always influence much of the good others wish to do....


It'd be a massive overhaul to the way people live if switching to something else, even if it's something they could live without and find life with new products from differing sources favorable once adapting....and most people don't like change even when they want to avoid consequences of remaining where they are.

It's all an issue of perception of what is or isn't "needed"....
US Universities have been doing some interesting work - an example
(All-carbon solar cell harnesses infrared light - MIT News Office)
That's really amazing :)
Inventors and early proponents of new technology don't always reap the rewards of their work - and sometimes I wonder whether in the US this phenomenon retards the willingness to invest and start with new tech
Good point, as it seems many times that the people with vision are not taken seriously by all others who may be blinded to what could occur.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0