• With the events that occured on July 13th, 2024, a reminder that posts wishing that the attempt was successful will not be tolerated. Regardless of political affiliation, at no point is any type of post wishing death on someone is allowed and will be actioned appropriately by CF Staff.

  • Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Trump Economic Boom Leaves Millions Behind

LovesOurLord

Active Member
Jun 19, 2018
242
151
Denver
✟23,279.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Well yeah. 401Ks took a swift beating.

I don't know of any retirement funds not based on stock investments. Basically every adult in this country is invested in stock market, so it's not wheelers and dealers and Trumpites.

There's a lot of ppl who are living paycheck to paycheck w jobs that are effected by the coronavirus in China & are not going to just be able to rebound.

Huh? The average American is not affected by Coronavirus. The stock market hit will rebound shortly and will also increase more with a Trump reelection. His presence in the White House has been nothing but good for the retirement portfolios of over 100,000,000 people.

They're actually pretty good at identifying fakers & refunding donors. All the ppl who got scammed by the Trumper who wanted to fundraise to build a wall got reimbursed.

I doubt it. I think a lot of those scams fly under the radar.

Even b4 the existence of GoFundMe desperate Americans were going into surreal debt bc of insane medical expenses. 2/3rds of Americans who file for bankruptcy have cited medical debt. My sister's medical bills were insane when we lived in the US, my parents have always had super great jobs, it was still a burden. We emigrated Canada when I was younger, she's had way better care, no medical burden.

How much of that was because they made the choice to not buy medical insurance and blew that money on other stuff instead? You're acting like these people are helpless. I see a lot of people opting out of buying insurance, your family's experience notwithstanding.

Your medical expenses in Canada are insane but instead of buying insurance, you get them taken in taxes. What's the difference other than the US has markedly better quality care and far quicker access to services?
 
Upvote 0

Cimorene

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jan 7, 2016
6,266
6,018
Toronto
✟246,655.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Private
I don't know of any retirement funds not based on stock investments. Basically every adult in this country is invested in stock market, so it's not wheelers and dealers and Trumpites.



Huh? The average American is not affected by Coronavirus. The stock market hit will rebound shortly and will also increase more with a Trump reelection. His presence in the White House has been nothing but good for the retirement portfolios of over 100,000,000 people.

HUH? Is this meant to be a Poe?

It's remarkably incongruent with reality. It's just absolute ignorance peddled by Trump & his proxies. This already has had & will continue to have a broad impact on Americans. Stop & think things through a little.


I doubt it. I think a lot of those scams fly under the radar.

You care that you doubt it, the facts don't care, so whatever.

How much of that was because they made the choice to not buy medical insurance and blew that money on other stuff instead? You're acting like these people are helpless. I see a lot of people opting out of buying insurance, your family's experience notwithstanding.

Again, totally incongruent with the facts. Many Americans have healthcare insurance.
Even with a premium health insurance plan there's a TON of costs that are not covered by it. They can add up fast. They'll look for any reason they can to not pay & there's a TON of things that are needed that they'll refused to pay. You can go to a hospital that is in your insurance network but be treated by drs who aren't in it, leading to outrageously high bills that are devastating. Also changes Trump made in 2018 allowed for junk plans that are......junk.

Coronavirus: Man receives $3,500 medical bill for test after returning to US from China - fixed link to work around adblock

That's just his 1st bill. More will come. He does have insurance. It doesn't cover a huge portion of the bill AND in order to get any coverage he has to submit 3 yrs of medical records to prove that having the flu wasn't due to any form of preexisting conditions.

Your medical expenses in Canada are insane but instead of buying insurance, you get them taken in taxes. What's the difference other than the US has markedly better quality care and far quicker access to services?

My parents' income taxes are lower in Canada despite having higher salaries than they did in the US. The healthcare here has been vastly superior. My sister has T1D, the cost of insulin is insane in the US. I was young when we left the US so I couldn't work while there but my taxes are manageable. I slipped on ice, had to go to the ER for my wrist, great care, no bills to sucker punch me later. Also go to one of the best universities in the world, am in the degree ranked 3 in the world, and it's a fraction of the cost of universities in the US. I'm proud my taxes go towards it & healthcare.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

LovesOurLord

Active Member
Jun 19, 2018
242
151
Denver
✟23,279.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
HUH? Is this meant to be a Poe?

It's remarkably incongruent with reality. It's just absolute ignorance peddled by Trump & his proxies. This already has had & will continue to have a broad impact on Americans. Stop & think things through a little.

Calling it a Trump lie qualifies it how? Stock markets immediately reacted positively to his being elected. The only ignorance I see here is that you were completely oblivious that the average American adult is invested in the stock market and basically stated the only reason the stock market matters is because of Trump and his rich cronies making cash off it.

And considering I'm old enough to be your mother, you should check the haughty talk and refrain from talking down to me.

You care that you doubt it, the facts don't care, so whatever.

I'm confused as to why you're equal parts irritated and equal parts not supporting your position.

Again, totally incongruent with the facts.

I haven't seen you present other than opinions.

Many Americans have healthcare insurance.
Even with a premium health insurance plan there's a TON of costs that are not covered by it. They can add up fast.

Not really. There are annual deductibles which means there is a limit on how much out-of-pocket would be paid yearly. It's not open-ended and you seem extremely ignorant about US medical insurance.

They'll look for any reason they can to not pay & there's a TON of things that are needed that they'll refused to pay. You can go to a hospital that is in your insurance network but be treated by drs who aren't in it, leading to outrageously high bills that are devastating. Also changes Trump made in 2018 allowed for junk plans that are......junk.

A ton? Like? I had two surgeries 10 weeks apart in 2016 and only paid about $3k out of pocket because my insurance covered the rest. My medical insurance every month was about $100 cost to me. My deductible was $3k so it meant that was the max I would be liable for. I'd like to see evidence that you would be billed out of network for going to an in-network hospital. I don't believe it. Consumers are responsible for their own plans, and if they want a junk plan, they can have a junk plan. People aren't slaves and aren't required to buy it. Just like with junk cars or any other purchase.



If that's supposed to be a link, it's not working so I can't comment on it. Federal law requires coverage for per-existing conditions (the only aspect of Obamacare that I support) so this isn't relevant.

My parents' income taxes are lower in Canada despite having higher salaries than they did in the US. The healthcare here has been vastly superior.

Since they don't pay taxes in the US, how do you know it would be a lower tax rate there than here?

Your view of the US medical system seems very outdated at best. Again, I see no value in being heavily taxed to avoid a copay or deductible in the future. Why are copays or deductibles so frightening?
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Cimorene

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jan 7, 2016
6,266
6,018
Toronto
✟246,655.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Private
Calling it a Trump lie qualifies it how? Stock markets immediately reacted positively to his being elected. The only ignorance I see here is that you were completely oblivious that the average American adult is invested in the stock market and basically stated the only reason the stock market matters is because of Trump and his rich cronies making cash off it.

You're oblivious of the fact that many American adults are not invested in the stock market.

And considering I'm old enough to be your mother, you should check the haughty talk and refrain from talking down to me.

The way you treat others determines how you're treated in return. My other mom doesn't write callous & false things, she doesn't have a haughty attitude or look down on anyone & so.......she doesn't get treated reciprocally.

But look if you want to put me on ignore I will consider that a gift from you.


I'm confused as to why you're equal parts irritated and equal parts not supporting your position.

Your confusion is of your own making. I explained my position. It was based on facts.
GoFundMe CEO: One-Third of Site's Donations Are to Cover Medical Costs


I haven't seen you present other than opinions.

That's due to how you see things. I'm sure others in Trump's base will have that same POV, but it's incongruent with facts even if you're not aware of / indifferent of those facts.


Not really. There are annual deductibles which means there is a limit on how much out-of-pocket would be paid yearly. It's not open-ended and you seem extremely ignorant about US medical insurance.

Are you not able to recognize how haughty your own attitude is?

Anyways. Yes really. It is you who seem extremely ignorant about US medical insurance despite being old enough to be my mother. The annual deductibles can be extremely steep, maybe not to you, but to many, many Americans. There's a lot of services not covered by them. Some plans have separate deductibles for certain services, like prescription drugs. The prescription drugs can be extremely expensive especially ones that don't have a biosimilar yet.

A friend on here whose dad used to be an oncologist would literally write dozens of letters explaining why expensive meds were absolutely imperative for his patients only to repeatedly have those requests denied & his patients die.


A ton? Like? I had two surgeries 10 weeks apart in 2016 and only paid about $3k out of pocket because my insurance covered the rest. My medical insurance on every check was about $100 cost to me. My deductible was $3k so it meant that was the max I would be liable for. I'd like to see evidence that you would be billed out of network for going to an in-network hospital. I don't believe it. Consumers are responsible for their own plans, and if they want a junk plan, they can have a junk plan. People aren't slaves and aren't required to buy it. Just like with junk cars or any other purchase.

There's a lot of people in the country who aren't you & aren't like you. Why An ER Visit Can Cost So Much — Even For Those With Health Insurance

If that's supposed to be a link, it's not working so I can't comment on it. Federal law requires coverage for per-existing conditions (the only aspect of Obamacare that I support) so this isn't relevant.

Idk why it's not working but if you'd copied & pasted it into Google it would have taken 4 seconds. I fixed it. In 2018 Trump’s administration rolled back ACA regulations to allow for short-term plans that can deny coverage to ppl with pre-existing health conditions & charge way more based on health status. The plans aren't called junk plans, that's what they're known as bc they're junk.These plans, unlike ACA-compliant ones aren't required to & often don’t cover the essential health benefits, including maternity care & prescription drugs. Ppl buy them out of confusion & desperation. They are much, much, much cheaper than a traditional insurance plan. The man in the article I posted for you works for a medical device company (which btw is one field def. impacted by the coronavirus) & earns a decent salary but his employer does offer health insurance. The insurance plan he bought is $180 a month,
His plan's requirement is to provide 3 yrs of medical records before coverage kicks in.

Since they don't pay taxes in the US, how do you know it would be a lower tax rate there than here?

Lol. Bc they lived in the US for decades & paid income taxes there. They DO still pay some taxes in the US.


Your view of the US medical system seems very outdated at best. Again, I see no value in being heavily taxed to avoid a copay or deductible in the future.

^^^^ literally exactly what I thought reading your posts.

Again, my family hasn't been any more heavily taxed in Canada than in the US, in fact the opposite, & the healthcare has been terrific w/o being a financial burden.

Why are copays or deductibles so frightening?

Welp.
Testing revealed Mr Azcue had the flu, not the coronavirus. But his limited health insurance left him with a bill of $3,270 two weeks after his test. He will be responsible for $1,400 of that bill.

"How can they expect normal citizens to contribute to eliminating the potential risk of person-to-person spread if hospitals are waiting to charge us $3,270 for a simple blood test and a nasal swab?" Mr Azcue told the newspaper.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

grasping the after wind

That's grasping after the wind
Jan 18, 2010
19,458
6,354
Clarence Center NY USA
✟237,637.00
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
True, the LA Times is a liberal publication. That is to be taken under consideration. But when they quote facts and figures from outside neutral organizations, that's not them propagandizing. That's just reporting.

And the employment situation will be good enough when current compensation packages equal that of the 1950's, when the middle class - and society - and this country - was at it's strongest.

Seems you want to make America great again like it was in the 1950s.
If you were willing to return to the social conditions of the 1950s perhaps you could get the economic results of the 1950s.
 
Upvote 0

rjs330

Well-Known Member
CF Ambassadors
May 22, 2015
24,415
6,986
64
✟365,548.00
Faith
Pentecostal
What is the definition of middle class and upper class here? No longer can a man with only a high school education support a family with a single income.

That's because back in the 50s there were a lot of jobs like manufacturing that didn't ask for a college degree. As we as a society began to push for more of a college education more jobs asked for them. Back then because of manufacturing employers didn't care. You can still support a family on a middle income. I did for years.
 
Upvote 0

Mountainmanbob

Goat Whisperer
Site Supporter
Sep 6, 2016
15,961
10,818
73
92040
✟1,096,383.00
Country
United States
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
From the Los Angeles Times
Trump boom is leaving millions behind




MICHAEL HILTZIK
President Trump and his economic advisors have been taking a rather premature victory lap about the nation’s economic performance during his three years in office.
It’s premature in part because Trump’s term isn’t over yet. And also because the economy hasn’t performed nearly as well as he says, even if one discounts a good portion of his rhetoric as bombast.

In his State of the Union address earlier this month, Trump proclaimed the economy to be “the best it has ever been.”

In the foreword to the latest report from his Council of Economic Advisors , released last week, Trump boasts of having “championed policies to restore the United States’ economic strength ... including tax cuts, deregulation, energy independence, and trade renegotiation.”
The report itself, however, acknowledges that as of December the U.S. economic expansion had reached its 127th month, meaning that it began 7 1/2 years before Trump took office.
As for his assertion that his economy is the best in U.S. history, the rationale for that claim is a mystery. It’s not true by any measure.

Much of Trump’s economic rhetoric is aimed at the Obama administration by asserting, as he does in the latest White House economic report, that he has reversed “trends seen under the previous administration.”

(He may have been goaded by a tweet issued by Obama on Feb.17 marking the 11th anniversary of the American Reinvestment and Recovery Act. Obama tweeted that the act had paved the way “for more than a decade of economic growth and the longest streak of job creation in American history.”)

With Trump’s tenure entering its fourth year, evidence is mounting that the economic expansion under his leadership has left millions of Americans behind. The government’s own statistics demonstrate that large sectors of the economy — including those for which Trump is making especially bold claims — aren’t performing well at all.

They include coal mining, which appears to have become bound in implacable doldrums since 2016, and manufacturing, which entered a recession late last year and in which employment has stagnated.

As we’ve reported before , Trump’s campaign promise of driving the economy to a growth rate of more than 3% has receded into the mists of time. The president’s economic report projects real annual growth of about 3.1% this year, falling to about 2.8% toward the end of the decade.

But that’s only with “full implementation” of Trump’s agenda of further business deregulation and an extension of the tax cuts enacted in December 2017, which were heavily tilted toward the wealthy. Barring that, the economic team says, annual growth could fall to just over 2% a year.

The stock market has been soaring, but even the biggest gain in the Standard & Poor’s 500 of the Trump years — the 31.1% gain last year — didn’t match the best year under Obama, a 32.43% gain in 2013.

The index never had a negative year during Obama’s eight years in office, incorporating dividends, but already has had one (2018) under Trump. After sell-offs Monday and Tuesday, both the S&P 500 and the Dow Jones industrial average turned negative for 2020.

It may be unfair to blame Trump for the coronavirus-driven selling, but since he’s been claiming largely undeserved credit for the market gains up to now, he can take the blame too. In any event, the stock market is not the economy, though it may from time to time put money in the pockets mostly of the affluent, who earn as much as half their annual income from capital gains.

What’s more telling is to examine how average workers have done under Trump. There the facts warrant even less braggadocio.

It’s true that the economic expansion that started under Obama following the 2008-09 recession has continued under Trump — but at the same pace or less than under his predecessor in terms of job growth. Under the circumstances, it’s proper to ask what Trump’s role in the expansion has been.

To begin with, there are no signs that it has picked up steam. Quite the contrary. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, Trump added an average of 181,000 jobs per year over his three years in office. Obama added an average of 224,000 in his last three years and 216,000 per year during his entire second term.

Trump asserted in his State of the Union address that his policies have been especially good for low-wage workers, “who have seen a 16% pay increase since my election.” That’s before inflation. Counting price increases, it’s 9%.

Economist Jared Bernstein of the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, a former economic advisor to Vice President Joe Biden, agrees with Trump that low-income workers have seen larger gains than middle- or high-income workers.

But their incomes are still too low to make ends meet. The same living wage calculator cited by Bernstein, which is produced by MIT, shows that in a household in Los Angeles with two working adults and two children, each worker would have to earn $20.28 an hour, full-time, to cover the family’s typical living expenses of $84,352. That’s a stretch for almost anyone outside the fields of law, medicine or other top professions, the MIT survey indicates.

Low-wage and middle-class Americans remain caught in the same vise that has been squeezing them for decades. “Your paycheck hasn’t grown as much as it needs to,” says Thea Lee, president of the labor-oriented Economic Policy Institute, “and everyone has seen a rise in costs.” Part of the reason is an “eroding public sector,” she says, including a consistent defunding of public universities that transfers costs to families.

According to an analysis of census data done by the EPI in conjunction with the journalism website Capital and Main, the growth of real median household income has slowed nationwide under Trump. To the extent that low-wage workers have experienced income growth, Lee notes, much of that results from increases in the minimum wage enacted in several states and cities.

“Increasing the minimum wage is not a policy of which Trump approves,” she says, “so that’s not something President Trump can take credit for.”

Meanwhile, the Trump administration has been moving to shoot holes in the economic safety net by pushing initiatives that would throw millions of households off the food stamp program and thousands off Medicaid. Trump supports a lawsuit brought by Texas to invalidate the Affordable Care Act, which would end premium subsidies for as many as 10 million Americans and could leave those with pre-existing medical conditions without access to health coverage.
As recently as Tuesday, the Trump-controlled National Labor Relations Board significantly weakened the so-called joint employer rule , which had made franchise companies such as McDonald’s responsible for the workplace treatment of employees by franchisees.
By depriving those workers of bargaining rights with the parent companies, according to the Economic Policy Institute , the change from an Obama-era rule could cost workers $1.3 billion annually.

The biggest doubts about the Trump economy apply to his industrial policy. Trump promised during his election campaign to restore the coal industry’s health. Throughout his term he has displayed hostility toward renewable energy sources such as wind. Last year he unveiled an amendment to the Clean Air Act aiming to extend the life of coal-fired power plants, despite evidence that they’re a danger to public health and contribute to climate change.
But the industry hasn’t come back, and there’s reason to doubt it ever will. U.S. coal mining employment fell to its lowest level ever in the fourth quarter of 2019. Coal generation has been undercut by historically low prices for natural gas, which burns cleaner anyway.
“No one’s going to argue with the point that coal, as a percentage of U.S. electricity generation, is declining and will probably continue to decline for some time,” Energy Secretary Dan Brouillette said this month .

It’s worth noting that Trump’s focus on coal is a distraction in terms of the big economic picture. The entire U.S. coal mining industry employed about 50,000 workers at the end of last year. Amazon.com alone employs 10 times as many workers in the U.S., and Walmart 30 times as many.

More worrisome is the slump in manufacturing, another sector Trump promised to support. As my colleague Don Lee reported , manufacturing entered a recession late last year. Layoff announcements surged during 2019, especially in states such as Pennsylvania and Michigan that would be crucial for Trump’s reelection.

Manufacturing employment reached 12,851,000 in September but has largely stalled since then. Following a gain in November, the sector lost 5,000 jobs in December and an additional 12,000 in January, landing again at 12,851,000, according to preliminary government figures.

Part of the problem is Trump’s trade war, which has disrupted the supply chain for many American manufacturers, despite Trump’s insistence that it’s designed to protect American jobs.

Farming has been another black hole in the Trump economy. Farmers have been whipsawed by the trade war. They’ve been targeted for retaliatory tariffs by China, which reduced its buying of American soybeans virtually to nothing. As I reported in May , farm prices are down, bankruptcies are up, farm equipment is getting more expensive and export markets are fading away.

Trump announced last month that China would commit to stepping up its purchases of U.S. produce as part of his “Phase 1" trade deal, but skepticism still abounds over whether or how soon China will make good on the pledge.

Trump has tweeted about increasing subsidies to American farmers hurt by the trade war, but the tweet caught his own agricultural officials by surprise . That would be on top of $28 billion the government has already committed in aid to the farm sector, most of which has gone to large agribusinesses, not small farmers.

Some of the most significant headwinds hampering growth may come from Trump’s own immigration policies, which have choked off the flow of lower-income workers who help keep the overall economy humming.

White House acting Chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney acknowledged as much in a private meeting in England reported by the Washington Post . “We are desperate — desperate — for more people,” Mulvaney said, according to a recording of the meeting. “We are running out of people to fuel the economic growth that we’ve had in our nation over the last four years. We need more immigrants.”

Mulvaney specified that he meant immigrants who came to the U.S. legally, but the administration has tightened standards for legal immigration as well as trying to stem the inflow of those coming illegally.

Mulvaney’s remarks underscored the essential disconnect between the administration’s desire for economic growth and the constraints its ideologies have placed on growth.

Taken together, the numbers indicate that Trump’s policies have benefited the wealthy and large corporations, but left the fortunes of the middle class and low-income households behind. His economy may be booming, but it’s not everyone’s economic boom.

Keep up to date with Michael Hiltzik. Follow @hiltzikm on Twitter, see his Facebook page or email michael.hiltzik
@latimes.com.

Some will always be left behind
usually the ones who
don't want to get in line.

The economy is cooking out there
for the ones who want to go get some.

All that I know that want to work are working
and the ones that don't are not.

Granddaughters recently hired.
Grandson senior in high school
((( recruited ))) to go straight from high school
to working at Ford dealership.
Yes, he has good grades in Auto Shop
and a very likeable young man
making his way in this Great Economy.

M-Bob
 
  • Like
Reactions: rjs330
Upvote 0