Proof that God exists?

[weathered]

Carl Jung said this, and I feel he is exactly right:
If our religion is based on salvation, our chief emotions will be fear and trembling.
If our religion is based on wonder, our chief emotion will be gratitude.

That's easy to see. And the rejection of the salvation based religion for the reason that Jung gives is often one of the items that births atheists.

In my Love for God, it wasn't until I was freed from those images of Hell, Damnation and of a Judgmental God that I became freed spiritually. Historically, the salvation based religions have caused some of the worst atrocities most damage to humanity.


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I find that the fear of eternal damnation and the Hope in forgiveness and eternal life in Christ work together for my good. Grace taught my heart to fear, and grace my fears relieved. I departed from my loveless ways as Christ commanded, and now i seek love. Im still growing but i am a better person because of Jesus Christ, he changes my heart. And that makes me happy.

Amazing Grace.

 

[weathered]

I am grateful to God. Very grateful

 

[Danyc]

Yes i do because God said so,

Really. You really, honestly believe that we deserve eternal punishment.

I'm not asking right now what you believe your deity thinks we deserve. I'm asking you what you think we deserve.

 

[weathered]

Really. You really, honestly believe that we deserve eternal punishment.

I'm not asking right now what you believe your deity thinks we deserve. I'm asking you what you think we deserve.

I believe what God says even if i don't understand it, my own understanding of how things should be has caused nothing but grief for myself and many other people too, i want to try it His way now. He said his ways are not our ways, he told us to lean on His teaching and not our own understanding. We are all hateful, God is love, God says we deserve death but he wants to give us life instead because he loves us, that's real love. And i seek that.

 

[Tiberius]

Why does that matter?

if a person is ever faced with the choice of whether to be gay or not, then it must follow that they can choose to be straight. To say otherwise is to say that anyone faced with the choice will turn out gay, and if that's the case, it's not really a choice.

So, if all people are faced with this choice, then you must have been faced with it at some point, and you chose to be straight. Please tell us about how you made this choice.

 

[weathered]

if a person is ever faced with the choice of whether to be gay or not, then it must follow that they can choose to be straight. To say otherwise is to say that anyone faced with the choice will turn out gay, and if that's the case, it's not really a choice.

So, if all people are faced with this choice, then you must have been faced with it at some point, and you chose to be straight. Please tell us about how you made this choice.

I dont get into that debate, we all fail to misunderstand things, no one knows everyting and we all have opinions.

I don't know if i chose to become what i am or not, don't know if i was born the way i am or chose it. All i know is i can choose to be something better now at this moment.

 

[Danyc]

I believe what God says even if i don't understand it,

Alright. Would 'don't understand' equate with 'disagree'?

I hope you're aware of how evasive you are acting regarding this issue. I am receiving a strong suspicion that you may not actually agree that we all deserve eternal punishment.

I would say that thinking anyone deserves eternal, unending punishment for anything they could do in a lifetime, no matter how heinous, is morally reprobate.

I think you may agree. But possibly your beliefs are standing in the way.

 

[weathered]

I guess i do have an opinion on that though. The bible says God turns people over to homosexuality, so maybe its hard to say someone chose it, but i cant really say for sure. I don't care what others think anyway, let them be the proud judge who judges me, i'll be the lowly man crying out to God to forgive me and have mercy on me and save me. I'll try my hardest to obey him to the best of my understanding and not do things he says are wrong. I believe if i do this God will be pleased and he will bless me, he already loves me anyway, he wants to bless me, but he wants me to love Him and others too and so he teaches me, its not always easy being corrected by Him but it makes me happy knowing its He who corrects me because this is proof that i am a son of God and not a bastard.

Let them Judge, that's their mistake. I can only judge myself and seek obedience to God, judge my own heart and seek God with it.



Luk 18:9 And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:
Luk 18:10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
Luk 18:13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
Luk 18:14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.


Heb 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
Heb 12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
Heb 12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
Heb 12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
Heb 12:10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
Heb 12:11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
Heb 12:12 Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees;
Heb 12:13 And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed.
Heb 12:14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
Heb

 

[dlamberth]

All i know is i can choose to be something better now at this moment.

Which as I understand it is through Love, Compassion and Service to those in need. If that's what your doing...than many blessings to you.

.

 

[weathered]

Alright. Would 'don't understand' equate with 'disagree'?

I hope you're aware of how evasive you are acting regarding this issue. I am receiving a strong suspicion that you may not actually agree that we all deserve eternal punishment.

I would say that thinking anyone deserves eternal, unending punishment for anything they could do in a lifetime, no matter how heinous, is morally reprobate.

I think you may agree. But possibly your beliefs are standing in the way.

I know appearances can be deceiving, if i do think that i don't deserve death then it doesn't matter because God says i do, he says lean on His understanding and not my own, he says every man is right in his own eyes, every man including myself. But he loves me and wants me to live with Him forever, that's all i care about, it doesn't matter what i deserve or think i deserve, it only matters what i get.

 

[weathered]

Which as I understand it is through Love, Compassion and Service to those in need. If that's what your doing...than many blessings to you.

.

I'm trying and praying to do that very thing. But we have a service to God that goes beyond loving neighbor, its about living a holy lifestyle that he says is pleasing to Him.

 

[trientje]

You think sexual orientation is just a 'tendency'?

You think people with a 'tendency' to act a certain way would die for it?
You think people with a 'tendency' to do something would live their lives in fear and constant stress of losing jobs, losing their families, or even in extreme (though unfortunately not so extreme) cases, being killed, if only they would start liking the opposite sex?

You are simplifying this so that it fits with what your religion has taught you- that homosexuality is wrong. It is this belief, at the core, that needs addressing.

And then people who believe as you do vote to restrict the rights of homosexuals. And then, the non-religious get angry. See how this goes?

I can see why you are angry. We both have very different values and moral beliefs. Mine comes from my God and yours are something you developed on your own. I'm not simplifying anything but yes, my beliefs are what God has taught me. My belief needs addressing? I'm not saying your belief needs addressing. I respect your right to believe as you want. I don't call you disgusting and don't hate you, I hate the sin.

 

[trientje]

You believe they deserve this punishment? Which is what, by the way?

Why are you asking a mere human to judge? That is unfair. If you want to know what God says about homosexuality then look it up in the bible. If you want to know what happens to sinners of all kinds and people who don't accept the Lord then look it up. Yes, punishment for unbelievers is hell.

 

[weathered]

I hate my sin. So does God but he loves me. This world is nothing. God is everything to us, we all need him.

When God forgives he forgets, he doesnt remember our sins anymore, when we are in Christ we are new and can forget what we once were, as God also does. Thats the good news, AKA the Gospel message.

 

[Danyc]

I can see why you are angry. We both have very different values and moral beliefs. Mine comes from my God and yours are something you developed on your own. I'm not simplifying anything but yes, my beliefs are what God has taught me. My belief needs addressing? I'm not saying your belief needs addressing. I respect your right to believe as you want. I don't call you disgusting and don't hate you, I hate the sin.

Of course you're not saying my beliefs need addressing. That's because they don't. My beliefs don't involve thinking ill of others based not on what they do but what they are. People who think as you do (I don't know how you vote so I won't assume) will vote along religious lines. They are influencing the lives of others based on their own religious beliefs, beliefs that are unproven and unfalsifiable.

The odd thing is, there are millions of religious people in this country who would vote to restrict the rights of homosexuals (and some who would restrict the rights of women, and some blacks); a number of these people probably, in their hearts, do not actually agree that they deserve this, as weathered has, it seems to me, shown. I don't think that weathered really thinks we all deserve damnation. I think most everyone knows that we don't. We are not eternally evil and there's no reason for us to deserve eternal torture. Nobody does.

 

[Danyc]

Why are you asking a mere human to judge? That is unfair.

It most certainly is not.

There are a couple options.

Either he agrees that we all deserve eternal punishment; that is to say, he believes we all deserve eternal punishment.

Or, he does not agree, and does not think we deserve eternal punishment. He does not think his God is morally correct.

In the second options he serves (hypothetically) a God with whom he in his heart disagrees, yet outwardly acts the opposite.

 

[weathered]

Of course you're not saying my beliefs need addressing. That's because they don't. My beliefs don't involve thinking ill of others based not on what they do but what they are.

Im not sure you are being honest with yourself friend. But we all do it, you are not any different.

 

[weathered]

It most certainly is not.



In the second options he serves (hypothetically) a God with whom he in his heart disagrees, yet outwardly acts the opposite.

My heart does agree, its my flesh that doesn't agree.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Why are you asking a mere human to judge? That is unfair. If you want to know what God says about homosexuality then look it up in the bible. If you want to know what happens to sinners of all kinds and people who don't accept the Lord then look it up. Yes, punishment for unbelievers is hell.

Then where is the "choice" to not believe? You've set up a hostage situation.

 

[weathered]

My heart agrees.


Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.