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Missionary Work in NY
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Temptinfates
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Ty. I used to think I was internet savvy. It's getting away from me, lol.
Temptinfates
Temptinfates
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Originally Posted by anisavtaA little derail necessary -
Almost as good as the red neck version of the 10 Commandments
Redneck Ten Commandments - YouTube
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That still makes no sense to me.
If a person accepts Jesus/Yeshua, as their Lord and Savior and Messiah, there is no conversion to Messianic Judaism. The conversion is to Jesus.
I am more concerned that it is an identity issue, and it is far more important to understand one identity in Yeshua. If the identity is not in Jesus, and all that He did, then a person will be subject to the winds of different doctrinal view, or the opinions of those around them. But if identity is in Jesus, well, that is a solid Rock.
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I see very serious issues with this article.
Conversion does not solve the problem, but actually is unbiblical, to the point of destroying the prophesy concerning the purpose of Gentiles and the fact that God had always planned on calling Gentiles as Gentiles.
If there was ever a place for Jews and Gentiles to be One in Messiah, it is in Messianic Judaism, but one in Messiah means one Spirit and vision, and not all made to be 'Jews'.
In the body of Yeshua, the assembly, we are all different parts, different people, different cultures, from different languages and different nations. I have had an opportunity to worship in a place where there were people from countries around the world. From the America's, from the Far East (China, Japan, Korea), from Europe, From Africa, from the middle east including Israel and Egypt. I wish I could draw a picture in everyones mind. We all sang the same song, but each in their own language, praising the Lord, together in unity. A person who spoke French prayed for me. I didn't understand what they were saying, but I didn't need to.
There is a commonality in that we are all members of the Kingdom of Heaven. Our identity is in being New Creations, something entirely new, and the Old Man is dead. Knowing who we are goes beyond any nationality or ethnicity. It is something which can not be shaken, and that is the identity which matters. In Messianic Judaism, the worship is culturally Jewish, but that doesn't mean that those who are not Jewish lose their heavenly bought identity of being Saints, sons of God by adoption.
Rather then conversion, which not only further muddies the waters, but in the end will make our witness as Messianic Jewish people and will end up hurting those who 'converted' as they will never be accepted as Jewish. What is needed is a fuller understanding of scripture, and identity.
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QFT^^
Sorry Tish, what does that mean? Not familiar with it.
Temptinfates
Urban Dictionary says it means the poster agrees with the person they are quoting.
sorry yes it means quoted for truth
Ty. I used to think I was internet savvy. It's getting away from me, lol.
Temptinfates
http://worldwidewack.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Seniorcitizentextingcode.jpg
So true in regards to how terms can throw people off--and working with the elderly, you'll see some of the same kind of considerations come up when it comes to not knowing what the text means. Shoot, even young adults have been confused by text terms since they're often changing
But media has greatly changed the way language/communication is percieved in general anyhow. Something that may bless others:
It probably would be a good consideration to make Stickys in forums that disucss what abbreviations mean, as I was confused by the "QFT" as well (even though there are others I'm aware of)
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Will be interesting to see what the Lord says on some of our debates when He does review in the age to come...
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Conversion or should I say the transformation into Messianic Judaism is an experience of coming to the full realization He is the Jewish Messiah, The Holy One of Israel.
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Still makes no sense.
Transformation
1
: an act, process, or instance of transforming or being transformed
Transformed
a : to change in composition or structure
That is a work done by the Holy Spirit, into the likeness of Messiah, and renewing of the mind. It is a continuous process. But being made into the likeness does not mean Gentiles are changed into Jews. Or it refers to initial salvation, when we are transformed from in Adam into in Messiah, or becoming the new creation.
I know of many Christians who know he is the Jewish Messiah. And I know of many Christians who haven't realized this too. Coming to realize He is the Jewish Messiah I wouldn't call a transformation. Initial salvation is a transformation.
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Henaynei
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It comes as absolutely no surprise that non-Messianic Jews, Messianic Jews and some Messianic Gentles and lots of non-Messianic Gentiles don't understand and don't agree, even strenuously object, with what they think they understand about Messianic conversion.
Admittedly the luminaries and leadership in many MJ organizations don't agree, but an earnest dialogue has begun over the last several years, this is as it should be. This is the fetal beginnings of coming to grips with the fact that we need one or more Beit Din.
Admittedly the luminaries and leadership in many MJ organizations don't agree, but an earnest dialogue has begun over the last several years, this is as it should be. This is the fetal beginnings of coming to grips with the fact that we need one or more Beit Din.
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How do you know many of us do not understand? Many base their views on scripture, specifically that the Apostles opposed conversion by ritual... This in itself creates quite a dilemma, meaning those who advocate for conversion, should have an extremely well argument, and I have yet to see this argument.
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Henaynei
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etZion said:
Because many of us don't agree that the whole counsel of scripture opposes conversion, only conversion as a requirement for salvation.
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Right, but simply saying that does not make it acceptable, we would need to see the argument first... For starters one would have to establish from scripture what conversion is, then they would have to establish what purpose conversion serves, then they would have to deal with the view of the Apostles in regard to conversion as they saw it.
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anisavta
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Obviously many don't understand because of the posts here as to why Messianic conversions should not be done. From what I have read here and the arguments used, it's not so much a matter of what is right and wrong because as Henaynei has pointed out, it's still in the birthing stage and no one (not even you Qnts2) can debate this with knowledge. It's all supposition at this point. We have our opinions (some of us get 2) but that's all. That's why the UMJC has begun the dialog with this paper -http://www.umjc.org/home-mainmenu-1/faqs-mainmenu-58/14-umjc-faq/21-does-the-umjc-practice-conversion
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