Missionary Work in NY

[Qnts2]

So basically what they are doing now to those of us who would be TO gentiles is the exact same thing in reverse when the christians told the Jews that they had to give up their jewishness to be christians. Good grief!! A never-ending circle, cycle of error!

Really? Do you cease being a Gentile because I say Gentiles are not required to keep the Mosaic law? Do you become a Jew if you do?

But even more important, do you cease believing on Jesus, cease being a child of God? That is your identity. Your real identity. Your identity is not in keeping the Mosaic law.

When the Christian church told the Jewish people to give up being Jewish, that showed a complete lack of understanding that Jesus and the Apostles were Jewish. But it also showed a prejudice against the Jewish people.

I am not prejudiced against Gentiles. I'm actually telling you to be who you are. And to discover what it means in be in Messiah, and your new identity (which isn't Jewish) but as a born again, child of the Most High.

 

[visionary]

Really? Do you cease being a Gentile because I say Gentiles are not required to keep the Mosaic law? Do you become a Jew if you do?

But even more important, do you cease believing on Jesus, cease being a child of God? That is your identity. Your real identity. Your identity is not in keeping the Mosaic law.

When the Christian church told the Jewish people to give up being Jewish, that showed a complete lack of understanding that Jesus and the Apostles were Jewish. But it also showed a prejudice against the Jewish people.

I am not prejudiced against Gentiles. I'm actually telling you to be who you are. And to discover what it means in be in Messiah, and your new identity (which isn't Jewish) but as a born again, child of the Most High.

Not to be orthodox ..but rather Messianic Judaism

 

[xDenax]

ONE last time: It has absolutely nothing to do with being accepting by the Jewish community. Nothing to do with acceptance with the Jews who accept Yeshua. It's something I felt led to do FOR MYSELF!! For those of us in the Messianic Judaism movement, they may somewhat understand it, maybe not, but it has nothing to do with them either. It had everything to do with a period of time when I was literally a non-existant person in the state of GA. That was the time I began identifying myself with my spiritual heritage and decided to act on it. NO ONE NEEDS to understand it or approve it.

Ah just thought of something: It's no more than a Jewish girl's bat mitzvah, a catholic girl's confirmation, a lady who has gone through the classes and baptism of a Baptist church, or becoming a formal member of a Lutheran, Presbyterian, Episcopalian (sp?), Methodist church. I'm just "formally" becoming a member of a faith group. I'm not trying to become Jewish!! I would have thought those of you who have known me for almost a year and a half would know me better than that by now!!
Now just let it drop, please.

Yedida, you brought it up and we're trying to figure out what it means. Why are you getting huffy because we do not understand? Perhaps it's crystal clear in your mind what it means but I have no clue. The only thing I have ever heard about conversion to Messianic Judaism is here Conversion. Otherwise it just sounds like you are joining a Messianic congregation which I thought you already did. Therefore, I was confused. Admittedly, I'm still confused. But if you aren't refering to yourself as a Jew then it really isn't any of my business.

 

[xDenax]

Not to be orthodox ..but rather Messianic Judaism

What are you responding to Vis?

 

[Tishri1]

Im going to a UMJC congregation and none of that is true, so sorry but I take offence to this post

Never mind. I Googled, got lucky and found it.

Messianic Bureau International?

My my. Looks like all your modern come lately psuedo-jewish religities have turned into a bunch of competing business models, including the ones listed as authoritative on MJ on various threads. My personal experience would place UMJC at the top of my list for disdain, for well grounded, well founded reasons over the past 35 years. Converting gentiles to Messianic Judaism, keeping up the wall of separation betwixt Jew and gentile, only certain Jews of certain Ashkenazic origin fully acceptable, on and on. Then we have the fearless higher leader of this fuzz-bomb org. slinking into our Traditional Conservative Shul so he can learn how Jews who have always been Jews do Jewish things. I'm gonna get nauseous maybe.

Not what I'm interested in!

Rant on, without me.

 

[Henaynei]

This may help clarify somethings...
I'm sure it will stir up many more... But even that may buy clarity, or not

The Case for Conversion: Welcoming Non-Jews into Messianic Jewish Space

 

[yedida]

I'm still in the process of reading your link H and it's very moving. Except for lacking a desire to call my self a Jew, it's reading where I'm at through and through. Even my avatar reads, Ruth Messianic, i.e., Where you go, I will go, your people will be my people, your God will be my God. I'll comment further when I've read it all.

 

[yedida]

That was a very good article. And I agree fully with it. There are some of us gentiles in MJism that a conversion would only provide a legitimacy. Just short of knowing all we need to know about Jewish life, we are living to the best of our ability and knowledge. And what we don't know, as minor or major as it may be, is only because we have had no one to teach us. But we want to learn and as soon as the knowledge comes to us, however it gets there, we rearrange and make right as quickly as we can to the utmost that we are able. It isn't that I want to call myself a Jew, that would be at the bottom of the list (I don't need to say the words to anyone, I don't want or require that right), but conversely, at the very top of the list is an inner identification with and love of the Jewish people and God's ways that are set so deeply within me that not going through a conversion would be a dishonesty to myself and what I have and am becoming. At this point, and in this venue, I can't really explain it further. But it's not been done lightly and it isn't continuing lightly.
(Shoot, I could literally die before I finish this conversion! It's taken me over a year and a half to get the first requirement down (almost), which was the ability to read the main prayers and blessings in Hebrew and to have the blessings and the whole Sh'ma memorized. And that was the reason, Dena, that I had brought it up. I was soooo very happy that I had overcome a great difficulty (extreme memory problems) and I was just sharing (sadly, in a bad manner) something that was a joy and a sincere heart's desire that was finally looking like it may actually happen after all. (It's been a long frustrating road, that memorization part.)

 

[xDenax]

This may help clarify somethings...
I'm sure it will stir up many more... But even that may buy clarity, or not

The Case for Conversion: Welcoming Non-Jews into Messianic Jewish Space

It may clarify but it's the exact opposite of what Chava and I were being told. It all does boil down to identify as a Jew. The conversion process is about becoming a "Jew" according to some Messianic movement.

There is so much within this one article with which I have a problem that I don't really know where to start and I probably shouldn't. This isn't Jewish. It doesn't seem to be Messianic. It isn't Christian. In the long run I think it could do more harm than good.

It is the psychological and spiritual pain that ambiguous status causes the Gentiles in our midst that is one of the prime motivators for our invoking conver­sion as a legitimate option

I'd be interested in knowing how many people who go through this type of conversion feel it resolves their ambiguity. I lay odds it doesn't. In the short term? Yes, perhaps but in the long run I don't see how it would work. It takes a person from a concrete identy to something only recognized by very, very small group.

Though acceptance of Messianic Judaism by the larger commu­nity should never be our prime motivation for major shifts in direc­tion, there is good reason to believe that some fair-minded Jewish community leaders will take a positive view of the version of Messianic Judaism which makes conversion possible.

Providing a "conversion" process is not going to make the larger Jewish community take it seriously. To even claim that to be the case is unfair to those who are undergoing the process. If these conversions are going to be offered they need to be offered with honesty. The Jewish community is never going to recognize them. That is the reality. Don't sugar coat it.

 

[Temptinfates]

I may not understand a requirement to convert, but, I applaud your efforts, Yedida. I know you love Hashem. If I can see it, I know he does. Let no man rob you of that.
Temptinfates

 

[yedida]

It may clarify but it's the exact opposite of what Chava and I were being told. It all does boil down to identify as a Jew. The conversion process is about becoming a "Jew" according to some Messianic movement.

There is so much within this one article with which I have a problem that I don't really know where to start and I probably shouldn't. This isn't Jewish. It doesn't seem to be Messianic. It isn't Christian. In the long run I think it could do more harm than good.

It is the psychological and spiritual pain that ambiguous status causes the Gentiles in our midst that is one of the prime motivators for our invoking conver[bless and do not curse]sion as a legitimate option

I'd be interested in knowing how many people who go through this type of conversion feel it resolves their ambiguity. I lay odds it doesn't. In the short term? Yes, perhaps but in the long run I don't see how it would work. It takes a person from a concrete identy to something only recognized by very, very small group.

Though acceptance of Messianic Judaism by the larger commu[bless and do not curse]nity should never be our prime motivation for major shifts in direc[bless and do not curse]tion, there is good reason to believe that some fair-minded Jewish community leaders will take a positive view of the version of Messianic Judaism which makes conversion possible.

Providing a "conversion" process is not going to make the larger Jewish community take it seriously. To even claim that to be the case is unfair to those who are undergoing the process. If these conversions are going to be offered they need to be offered with honesty. The Jewish community is never going to recognize them. That is the reality. Don't sugar coat it.

I did state that calling myself Jewish is not the reason I'm doing it. And the 2 places where I've looked into it, and the one I choose, has never said anything about that aspect. I knew from go-get that it will mean nothing to anyone, really, but me. And that's just fine. I'm not doing it for anyone but me.
I liked what the article said, but as I stated above that the "right" to call myself Jewish would be on the very bottom of the list of, what shall I say, benefits? It's not in my desire for that, I haven't even checked into my background to see if it could be found that way. That's not what I'm after. That's putting a whole wrong spin on a conversion/confirmation (as it's more for me).

 

[yedida]

I may not understand a requirement to convert, but, I applaud your efforts, Yedida. I know you love Hashem. If I can see it, I know he does. Let no man rob you of that.
Temptinfates

Thank you so much Temp. This has really turned into a terrible affair, when it was shared originally for joy.

 

[xDenax]

I did state that calling myself Jewish is not the reason I'm doing it. And the 2 places where I've looked into it, and the one I choose, has never said anything about that aspect.

What do they see as the purpose?

 

[aniello]

Thank you so much Temp. This has really turned into a terrible affair, when it was shared originally for joy.

Unwatered weeds wither.

 

[Tishri1]

I may not understand a requirement to convert, but, I applaud your efforts, Yedida. I know you love Hashem. If I can see it, I know he does. Let no man rob you of that.
Temptinfates

QFT^^

 

[Temptinfates]

Sorry Tish, what does that mean? Not familiar with it.
Temptinfates

 

[xDenax]

Sorry Tish, what does that mean? Not familiar with it.
Temptinfates

Me either but I'm thinking maybe it's "quoted for truth"?

 

[visionary]

QFT ..Quote for two

 

[Temptinfates]

I thought that maybe I had said something wrong or stepped over some forum rule. I think I understand now.
Temptinfates

 

[xDenax]

I thought that maybe I had said something wrong or stepped over some forum rule. I think I understand now.
Temptinfates

Urban Dictionary says it means the poster agrees with the person they are quoting.