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Who goes to hell?

According to your beliefs, who ends up in hell?

  • Those who do not become Christian during their mortal life

  • Those who do not submit to Christ/ accept Christ's love in the afterlife

  • Nobody. I don't believe in Hell.

  • Other (Please Explain)


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squint

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If Universalism is true then it doesn't matter.

As stated prior, there is going to be an eternal judgment for all 'vessels' of dishonor, to the which I noted 'several' scriptures in this thread earlier, even to you if I recall.

But a funny thing happens on the way to understanding. Those Words get stolen within. If you see 'by whom' and 'where' you will understand these matters almost perfectly.

There are very solid spiritual principles involved in this matter that Jesus showed us all. Some get it. Many won't.

s
 
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dollarsbill

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If that is your mentality you're probably not thinking of others.
Thinking of others? You got it backwards. Those who preach Universalism aren't thinking of others who are headed for the eternal fire.
I mean .. if there's this great awesome freedom to experience .. then why not tell everybody . God is the one changing hearts anyway . you weren't thinking that was your job .. did you?
True freedom is only in Jesus. Those without Jesus are headed for eternity in the worst prison that ever existed, without parole.
 
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dollarsbill

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As stated prior, there is going to be an eternal judgment for all 'vessels' of dishonor, to the which I noted 'several' scriptures in this thread earlier, even to you if I recall.

But a funny thing happens on the way to understanding. Those Words get stolen within. If you see 'by whom' and 'where' you will understand these matters almost perfectly.

There are very solid spiritual principles involved in this matter that Jesus showed us all. Some get it. Many won't.

s
Are you saying that you are a Universalist?
 
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Gregory Thompson

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Thinking of others? You got it backwards. Those who preach Universalism aren't thinking of others who are headed for the eternal fire.

so you're preaching out of fear of others bad end .. so you can be a hero . but did you know the early church didn't really get that idea? it's only big because of augustine and the roman catholic church and dante .

True freedom is only in Jesus. Those without Jesus are headed for eternity in the worst prison that ever existed, without parole.

when you point one finger . three fingers are pointing back . the judgment you prepare for others in your heart is really prepared for yourself .
 
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squint

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Are you saying that you are a Universalist?

I would outright reject 'many forms' of claimed 'universalism' as being patent nonsense.

The scriptures state clearly that 'all' vessels of honor shall be saved and that all vessels of dishonor shall not, and will go to the Lake of Fire forever and ever, PERIOD.

This is what I believe and understand from the Word.

Oh, and I'm not fond of being branded and labeled by the understandings of 'men' or 'sects.'

s
 
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dollarsbill

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I would outright reject 'many forms' of claimed 'universalism' as being patent nonsense.

The scriptures state clearly that 'all' vessels of honor shall be saved and that all vessels of dishonor shall not, and will go to the Lake of Fire forever and ever, PERIOD.

This is what I believe and understand from the Word.

Oh, and I'm not fond of being branded and labeled by the understandings of 'men' or 'sects.'

s
Thanks for explaining.
 
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dollarsbill

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As stated prior, there is going to be an eternal judgment for all 'vessels' of dishonor, to the which I noted 'several' scriptures in this thread earlier, even to you if I recall.

But a funny thing happens on the way to understanding. Those Words get stolen within. If you see 'by whom' and 'where' you will understand these matters almost perfectly.

There are very solid spiritual principles involved in this matter that Jesus showed us all. Some get it. Many won't.

s
I was wondering if you were a Universalist since you have implied that we are not accountable for our sins.
 
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squint

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I was wondering if you were a Universalist since you have implied that we are not accountable for our sins.

No man will make Satan 'not sin' or 'be obedient' or 'be lawful' or be 'under Grace' or 'give him salvation' or...any Divine Beautiful Conveyance.

None of that is available for Satan or to those who are blinded in mind by same. Such remain LOCKED OUT because they do not and can not see 'who' is with them.

Spiritual Principle 101.

All who try to make Satan obedient are guaranteed by God in Christ to walk in frustration and condemnation, which will show upon their lips.

s
 
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dollarsbill

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No man will make Satan 'not sin' or 'be obedient' or 'be lawful' or be 'under Grace' or 'give him salvation' or...any Divine Beautiful Conveyance.

None of that is available for Satan or to those who are blinded in mind by same. Such remain LOCKED OUT because they do not and can not see 'who' is with them.

Spiritual Principle 101.

All who try to make Satan obedient are guaranteed by God in Christ to walk in frustration and condemnation, which will show upon their lips.

s
Ok. I wasn't aware that anyone here had been trying to defend or make Satan righteous. Perhaps it would help if you explain the difference between your beliefs and Universalism in more depth.
 
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squint

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Ok. I wasn't aware that anyone here had been trying to defend or make Satan righteous. Perhaps it would help if you explain the difference between your beliefs and Universalism in more depth.

Which 'brand' are you referring to?

Everyone holds 'some form' of 'universalism' and most don't even know it or perceive it. Even YOU.

s
 
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squint

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How do I hold to Universalism?

Examples?

You hold that 'all mankind' universally have sin.

You hold that 'all devils' will be universally damned.

You hold that 'all vessels of honor' will be universally saved.

A short version.

There is no 'coherent' universalist sect as in 'thee sole official spokesmen.' Just as it is in the balance of sects.
 
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Sadalmelik

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so you're preaching out of fear of others bad end .. so you can be a hero . but did you know the early church didn't really get that idea? it's only big because of augustine and the roman catholic church and dante .



when you point one finger . three fingers are pointing back . the judgment you prepare for others in your heart is really prepared for yourself .





:thumbsup: ALL TRUE.
 
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WillieH

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First reply to IGNORANCE... :doh:

Dollarsbill STILL has not answered the SINGLE QUESTION that I asked him... wanna try again for the 3rd time, "dollarsbill"? Probably NOT, for IGNORANCE is the method of "dollarsbill"

Here is the question for the THIRD time:

willieH said:
Would you answer a question? :confused:

If there IS a "HELL", then how can you call the MISSION of CHRIST a SUCCESS?


Nothing is too difficult for God. But He cannot lie, which has nothing to do with His power.

Are you a puppet? I'm not.

Thank you for pointing out that God didn't have mercy on Pharaoh.

Who can tell God what He can or cannot do? You?

And He did, for those who believe and repent. The majority do not.

I never said God failed so please don't accuse me of it.

Which would be fine if the Bible was only one verse.

Salvation is only for those who believe and love God. That leaves out a HUGE amount of humans regardless of what you say.

Your Bible seems to be missing many pages.

John 3:36 (NASB)
36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."
 
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Sadalmelik

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First reply to IGNORANCE... :doh:

Dollarsbill STILL has not answered the SINGLE QUESTION that I asked him... wanna try again for the 3rd time, "dollarsbill"? Probably NOT, for IGNORANCE is the method of "dollarsbill"

Here is the question for the THIRD time:




i would not hold your breath for an answer to that willieh,my questions went unanswered as well.....
 
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Soulgazer

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Some believers(?) are not even sure of their own salvation. It would be 'natural' then for same to see others with a much darker eye.

s
You would have to count Paul among that lot. However "salvation" is a word that carries a multitude of meanings. It can mean "Soul Healing", as in a sickness of the soul that prevents one from giving love. It can mean to be "Free", as the early Paulines considered themselves to be freed from Judaism. It can also mean to be allowed to once again perceive the kingdom of heaven. These are all legitimate early christian definitions.

If we step back pre-christian, "salvation" was continuation of a nation. If we jump forward to the sixteenth century, "salvation" meant going to heaven when the body dies. Drop back again tho the thirteenth century, and it was something that could be bought or sold.

I don't look at "salvation" as an event, but rather as a process. "Running the good race" as Paul wrote. In "Secret James", Jesus said "Be zealous to be saved without being urged. Rather, be ready on your own and, if possible, go before me. For thus the Father will love you. ", giving further weight to the words of Paul.

In my sermons, I would often use an example of two ex- thieves, both trying to lead a Christian life.

The first thief will not steal, because he feels that it is against the law and against the written commandments. He has cleaned the outside of the cup.

The second thief will not steal, because the idea no longer enters his heart. He has cleaned the inside of the cup.

To reach true "salvation", one has to clean the inside of the cup.

Which if either will enter "Heaven"? Not for me to judge, nor you, nor any other mortal.
 
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WillieH

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Second reply to IGNORANCE


I noted to dollarsbill:


Originally Posted by WillieH
With GOD, ...NOTHING is IMPOSSIBLE -- Matt 17:20 -- Mark 10:27 -- Luke 1:37

First dollarsbill says GOD can do ANYTHING, then He immediately generates a list that He cannot "do"... ...no "cake & eat it to" is allowed here! ^_^
To which dollarsbill replies:


DB said:
Nothing is too difficult for God. But He cannot lie, which has nothing to do with His power.


This is NOT what the WORD SAYS... "Nothing is too difficult for God"... that is YOUR (misled and arrogant) PARAPHRASED wording of what IT SAYS... which is SINFUL manipulation of what IT SAYS, which YOU have changed, in order that your RELIGIOUS TRADITION might find basis for itself. :doh:


You already have denied BELIEVING in what the WORD SAYS... and you clearly persist, in this response... I shall not give more than you deserve in order that you might have opportunity to ..."RIGHT your SHIP"...


So I shall not address ALL of your foolishness in this response (even though I am well able to do so).


For those who TURN a deaf ear at ONE Scriptural upbraiding, shall do so with all others... but for the sake of those reading along, I shall, via the guidance and power of the WORD, and the Holy Spirit of YHVH God, give you your REBUKE this once more:




No one said anything about the POWER of God (which is necessary in order that ANY EVIL or GOOD be manifest, for LIFE must exist, for EITHER to be manifest, and in both cases LIVING GOOD and LIVING EVIL take place in this realm, proceeding from LIVING beings which recieve LIFE from YHVH God)...


ALL things which GOD "does" are emergent from His POWER to manifest those "abilities"... according to HIS choosing to manifest them.


There are NO CHAINS upon God which cause Him "NOT to LIE", nor are there those which "cause Him "to BE GOD"... He IS what He IS, because He IS... and your FINITE ability which is LIMITED to being a "VAPOR" which is alive for a short (miniscule amount of) time, then vanishes away -- James 4:14 -- and [physically limited to a speck called "earth" amidst a UNIVERSE which is UNENDING... has so LITTLE time and space to make determinations of GOD, that it is LAUGHABLE and RIDICULOUS to even give them place -- ^_^^_^^_^


dollarsbill, ...as do many ORTHODOX "believers", think they can "CHOOSE" to DO anything they so please (with their UNBIBLICAL "free will"), however, they think to TIE the hands of ALMIGHTY YHVH GOD, by noting what HE "can and cannot" ...DO! :doh:


Then foolishly blabbers his/their blasphemies after the WORD SAYS that NOTHING is IMPOSSIBLE with GOD, ...that there are things EXISTENT which GOD, ...CANNOT DO?


Unbelieveable! :doh:


ALL "choosing" lies totally WITHIN HIS POWER and WILL... as He does not "allow" EVIL, He uses it within HIS PURPOSE during the unfolding in TIME, of the MANIFESTATION of His DECLARATION (end to beginning) of the "things not yet done" (beginning to END -- which was EVERYTHING) -- Isaiah 46:10-11 -- saying --- "I will ...DO... all My pleasure -- as He works ALL THINGS according to HIS WILL -- Eph 1:11


He "wound the clock of time" in its beginning, and now it "unwinds" unto its end...



Here we have an very OUTSPOKEN -- (dollarsbill in this case) -- which is a sinful, finite, imperfect and miserably STUPID being/"sheep" (not unlike the rest of us, btw)... FYI ...if anyone has ever visited the "intellect" of a "sheep", it is of the DUMBEST (and innocent) creatures on the earth...


Which arrogantly NOTES to YHVH GOD who is OMNIPRESENT (everyWHERE and everyWHEN), OMNISCIENT (ALL knowledgeable), and SELF EXISTENT, that which HE "can and cannot -- DO"? ...Are you kidding me? ^_^ ...


I mean REALLY, ...are you KIDDING ME? ^_^ ^_^



Just for starters....


GOD so "chose" to END (kill) the lives of ALL but 8 humans, and 1 pair of unclean animals and fowls, and 7 pairs of clean animals, of ALL LIVING things on the earth -- Gen 6:13 -- Gen 7:2


GOD also "chooses" ALL beginnings and endings to include ALL PARAMETERS of those beginnings and endings. PERIOD.


MAN does not KNOW nor "choose" anything concernign his beginning or ending. PERIOD.


Obviously dollarsbill does not (think logically or) even possess or read a Bible, or he would surely KNOW that GOD not only CREATED EVIL -- Isaiah 45:7 -- and UTILIZES it often in the OLD covenant -- 1 Sam 16:14 -- Judges 9:23 -- as well as the NEW covenant -- Matt 26:43


CHRIST clearly asked that the cup pass, but the WILL of God was that the FULL CUP of EVIL must come upon His Son (which was PERFECT), to redeem the IMPERFECT! So the CUP of EVIL was SENT by God to be COMPLETELY (for ALL -- 1 Tim 3:6) ...consumed by His SON, ...PERIOD. (btw, ...whether YOU or I "like it, or believe it, or not", is not even worthy of consideration).


ANY and ALL "power" utilized, is distributed by the ONLY one with "POWER" -- Rom 13:1 -- Any USES of that "distributed" power are ORDAINED by YHVH... according to the WILL -- Eph 1:11 -- and FOREKNOWLEDGE -- Isaiah 46:10-11 -- of YHVH GOD, whether they be USED for GOOD or for EVIL... which is WHY God does NOT INTERVENE upon the INNUMERABLE manifestations of EVIL except in the FEW moments where HIS WILL dictates that His INTERVENTION be manifest... (which include murder, rape, thievery, blasphemies, on to the infinite doings of all EVIL)


That distribution is done according to HIS WILL which works ALL (not just SOME), ...THINGS -- Eph 1:11 -- and everything that IS, ...is designated to EXIST concerning the PURPOSES of YHVH within HIS MOLDING of MEN (as the POTTER of the CLAY) which calls for both the MERCY (softening) and HARDENING of men, (CLAY) during the manifestation of the LIVING knowledge of GOOD and EVIL -- Rom 9:15-25 -- whether it be utilzed for GOOD of for EVIL, which are 2 halves of the SAME KNOWLEDGE, rooted in the SAME "TREE" -- Gen 2:17


Men, in the pride of LIFE, bring the INIQUITOUS message of The FAILURE of the Cross to SAVE the WORLD that both YHVH God and His SON so unchangingly LOVE.... by the implementation of the UNBIBLICAL assumption that man has "Free will"... which is RIDICULOUS from its beginning, for this myth proceeds from SINFUL hearts (deceitful ABOVE all things -- Jer 17:9)... and in that sorrowful MISperception, ...centers around SELF (being saved by the UNBIBLICAL and SELF originating ---- "decision for", or "acceptance of the HOLY = CHRIST... which they claim to implement via the use of this false "free will")... in the stead of humbly delivering the message of the GOSPEL to the WORLD, that CHRIST has both died and resurrected to LIFE, to REDEEM them ALL...


This false RELIGIOUS thought which permeates "christianity"... will be named for what it IS, upon His appearing -- Matt 7:22-23 -- where the MANY which claim to "come in His name" (christians), shall be exposed for who and what they ARE, ...SINNERS which are yet HIDING in the NAKEDNESS of SHAME (as was experienced by Adam and Eve) -- Rev 3:18 -- Gen 3:9-10


FEW which are "come in His name" will come to the realization of the TRUTH and indeed shall ..."LOVE the WORLD" as did YHVH, ...in the sending His Son whom also "LOVED the WORLD", so much that He went willingly and without FAULT, as a Lamb to the slaughter, ...to the Cross to SAVE it... in its helpless TOTALITY -- 1 Tim 4:10-11 -- 1 Tim 2:3-6 -- Rom 5:18-20


It is so simple -- Psalm 19:7 -- that by MOST, ...these "trees (of TRUTH) cannot be seen for the forest" ------> -------> ------> ------->
Where SIN abounded... GRACE... did ...MUCH MORE ABOUND!


If you (dollarsbill or anyone reading) do not HEAR this... then you are not CALLED to HEAR it, ...during your stay in this realm... but in the LAST DAY -- John 12:31-32, ...47-48


ALL shall HEAR in the GRAND conclusion of YHVH God -- Phil 2:10-11 -- Rom 14:11 -- Isaiah 45:23 -- Isaiah 55:11 :thumbsup:


PEACE be unto ALL men... :groupray: ...which PEACE shall be the end of ALL which are emergents of YHVH God, the Father of SPIRITS, -- Heb 12:9 -- John 1:9:

The GOD of PEACE -- Rom 15:33 -- Heb 13:20 -- 1 Cor 14:33 -- Phil 4:9 -- 1 Thess 5:23 -- 2 Thess 3:16 -- Heb 7:2


...willieH :clap:
 
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WillieH

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i would not hold your breath for an answer to that willieh,my questions went unanswered as well.....

Thanks brother. I am quite used to those who are unable to answer, and so they IGNORE questions that might INCRIMINATE their beliefs... instead of considering that they might have something to LEARN. :doh:


It is really very common on Christian forums...


PEACE... :groupray:

...willieH :clap:
 
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Hillsage

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The scriptures state clearly that 'all' vessels of honor shall be saved and that all vessels of dishonor shall not, and will go to the Lake of Fire forever and ever, PERIOD.

This is what I believe and understand from the Word.
s
You might need to reread those scriptures squint, because, if you read them in context, they say no such thing. They have nothing to do with the lake of fire OR hell. They have everything to do with being used of God for His work here and now. God isn't going to use a dirty vessel to testify to His power 'to clean up lives'.

1TH 4:4 that each of you know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor, 5 not in lustful passion, like the Gentiles who do not know God;


Is this verse talking about you getting saved so don't burn in hell, or is it talking about cleaning up your life, and not acting like an unsaved Gentiles...here and now.

2TI 2:20 Now in a large house there are not only gold and silver vessels, but also vessels of wood and of earthenware, and some to honor and some to dishonor. 21 Therefore, if anyone cleanses himself from these things, he will be a vessel for honor,...

Does this say there's no use in a large house for these common utensils??? NO! They just aren't used for the banquet. Common vessels are for 'common' use. And how do YOU become a 'vessel of honor' according to this passage? Does it say get saved or burn in hell???? NO! It says you are to cleanse yourself, after you've been saved so God will use you here and now as His honorable vessel.

This last scripture, which is in context, should really get your attention I hope. Especially the underlined part. ;)

2 Timothy 2:15 Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.
 
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