Who goes to hell?

[Gregory Thompson]

no im not concerned with that, we are not under the old law still....and i dont think God would send anyone to their death for eating shellfish. i love crablegs, do they qualify as shellfish?

"what i have made holy call not thou common" ~ God to Peter in Acts .. so if one thing has changed .. perhaps other things also have changed .

 

[dollarsbill]

If your god burns people alive for all eternity, then you and I do not worship the same God.

Agreed. This is my God:

Dan 4:35
"All the inhabitants of the earth are accounted as nothing, But He does according to His will in the host of heaven And among the inhabitants of earth; And no one can ward off His hand Or say to Him, 'What have You done?'

He doesn't have to ask permission from anyone for anything.

 

[Ishraqiyun]

This debate results from confusion between the demiurge and God the Father imo. The two are not identical. One of these beings may enjoy tortureing people but the other doesn't. Those who serve the "torture forever" god are inadvertently worshiping the creation (demiurge) rather than Creator (God the Father) or at the very least attributing qualities of the one onto the other.

 

[dollarsbill]

This debate results from confusion between the demiurge and God the Father imo. The two are not identical. One of these beings may enjoy tortureing people but the other doesn't. Those who serve the "torture forever" god are inadvertently worshiping the creation (demiurge) rather than Creator (God the Father) or at the very least attributing qualities of the one onto the other.

I wasn't aware that anyone said that God 'enjoys' torturing people. And neither has anyone said they like the idea of the eternal Hell as someone (not you) has suggested.

 

[Ishraqiyun]

God in that theory has no desire to torture unrepentant people but is somehow forced to do so anyway?

 

[Ishraqiyun]

Oh , I see I posted "enjoy" rather than "desire". I'll change it. Probably wasn't the best way to word it. Then again I wasn't talking about God and the being I was talking about might very well enjoy it.

 

[dollarsbill]

He has no desire to torture unrepentant people but is somehow forced to do so anyway?

He gave us many warnings. Obviously He does not desire to torture the lost. We can't say we haven't been warned.

 

[Ishraqiyun]

He gave us many warnings. Obviously He does not desire to torture the lost. We can't say we haven't been warned.

Apparently he desires that rather than the alternative of not torturing people who don't repent. If he didn't desire it who could force him to do it?

 

[dollarsbill]

Apparently he desires that rather than the alternative of not torturing people who don't repent. If he didn't desire it who could force him to do it?

God's nature is righteous and holy. He can't allow rebellion against Him forever.

 

[Sadalmelik]

He gave us many warnings. Obviously He does not desire to torture the lost. We can't say we haven't been warned.

sorry you cannot have it both ways as your pov likes to have it, either God has the ability to do all, or He doesnt, by saying God does not allow this to happen, your denying God being all powerful, therefore either
He allows it or doesnt, you must not believe God to be all powerful, since he doesnt have the ability to make His will come to completion, He doesnt have the thought process to allow anything other than hell, as ive stated already, hell could have been anything God chose it to be, could it not have been? so why is it burning in a fire for all eternity? according to your pov thats Gods choosing, or can you name me one person who has said, i wish to burn in a fire for all eternity, without end....show me one person who would or has said this in all human history, and ill provide you a straight jacket for that person

so He basically has no power to do or change anything in regards to the unrighteous, either He does or doesnt, your fallacy of having it both ways make no sense, and is completely illogical to a normally thinking human brain.

 

[dollarsbill]

sorry you cannot have it both ways as your pov likes to have it, either God has the ability to do all, or He doesnt, by saying God does not allow this to happen, your denying God being all powerful, therefore either

He certainly can do anything, but change. He can't stop being holy and righteous. He can't stop being God.

He allows it or doesnt, you must not believe God to be all powerful, since he doesnt have the ability to make His will come to completion, He doesnt have the thought process to allow anything other than hell, as ive stated already, hell could have been anything God chose it to be, could it not have been? so why is it burning in a fire for all eternity? according to your pov thats Gods choosing, or can you name me one person who has said, i wish to burn in a fire for all eternity, without end....show me one person who would or has said this in all human history, and ill provide you a straight jacket for that person

We all make choices. Some choose to serve God. The majority chooses not to serve God.

so He basically has no power to do or change anything in regards to the unrighteous, either He does or doesnt, your phallacy of having it both ways make no sense, and is completely illogical to a normally thinking human brain.

God certainly could have created everyone so that everyone would be saved. He didn't.

Romans 9:14-18 (NASB)
14 What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there? May it never be! 15 For He says to Moses, "I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION." 16 So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "FOR THIS VERY PURPOSE I RAISED YOU UP, TO DEMONSTRATE MY POWER IN YOU, AND THAT MY NAME MIGHT BE PROCLAIMED THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE EARTH." 18 So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.

 

[WillieH]

I asked you ONE SIMPLE QUESTION, and APPARENTLY, by this reply, you were UNABLE to answer it, eh, dollarsbill?

Here it is again:

Would you answer a question?

If there IS a "HELL", then how can you call the MISSION of CHRIST a SUCCESS?

Instead... all you offer is this arrogant ("I cant lose then") CARNALLY WEAK and Scriptureless opinion.

If I'm wrong I can't lose then!!! How about you? The fact is that God does indeed burn humans alive.

Oh, you SHALL ...REAP what you SOW,.. dollarsbill... and YOU SHALL "lose" much ...to your own arrogance -- 1 Cor 3:11-15 --

Those reading along, ...please do not give heed to this carnally imprisoned person which (foolishly) thinks that such as the HEINOUS and EVIL works of HITLER are equivalent ("burning HUMANS alive") to the acts of LOVE (1 John 4:8)

God does not SAVE us dependent upon WHAT we "BELIEVE", He saves us due HIS SON's, ..."FAITH" -- Gal 2:20 -- Rev 14:12 (The faith OF JESUS, not FAITH of "dollarsbill" ) which is AUTHORED (in each human being WITHOUT RESPECT of PERSONS -- Acts 10:34 -- Prov 28:21) by JESUS CHRIST and then FINISHED IN THEM, by JESUS CHRIST -- Heb 12:2

Heb 12:2 -- Looking UNTO -- JESUS -- [NOT "unto" ourselves and SELFISH foolishness which thinks to accomplish the "ETERNAL"] -- the AUTHOR and FINISHER of FAITH. who for the JOY that was set before Him, endured the Cross, despising shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of GOD..

Not authored by "dollarsbill", and finished by "dollarsbill", ...could you be more SELF centered, bro?

My SALVATION IS NOT and NEVER WAS, dependent upon ..."me"... or in "BELIEVING in HELL", or in "going to Heaven" or in "the rapture" or in "going to church on sunday" or in ANYTHING else that I might "do"...

My SALVATION is due and credited to JESUS CHRIST, from its beginning to its completion!

We are saved by the work of JESUS CHRIST on our behalf -- 1 Tim 2:3-6

1. John 6:44 - Man CANNOT COME to CHRIST without GOD intervening

2. Matt 11:27 - Man CANNOT FIND GOD without CHRIST revealing Him

3. Rom 2:4 - Man CANNOT REPENT except GOD lead him to it

4. Heb 12:2 - Man CANNOT BELIEVE until FAITH is authored/finished in him..

5. 1 Cor 12:3 - Man CANNOT CONFESS unto salvation except by GOD enabling him to do so...

SALVATION is manifest (for and in, anyone and EVERYONE) SOLELY by the work of JESUS CHRIST ...IN US -- Eph 2:8-9 -- Col 1:20 -- John 6:44 -- Matt 11:27 -- Rom 2:4 -- Heb 12:2 -- 1 Cor 12:3


Please do not be blinded by dollarsbill's claims... which are centered in FEAR ("believing" that his "belief in Hell", allows him to sidestep "HELL"), which is that (FEAR) which is CAST OUT by LOVE -- 1 John 4:18


Dollarsbill, ignorant of Scripture, invests "his faith" "in HELL", and thinks that his investment of "his faith", thereby removes "HELL" from his experience, ...in the stead of the majesty of work of LOVE to SAVE him...

Dollarsbill does not have the FAITH of JESUS, he has "his own faith" which is in himself, and his "decision" to "LET" JESUS save him! Could that be more ridiculous?


If dollarsbill actually had the FAITH of JESUS, then no FEAR (of "HELL" or anything else) would be within his experience, plain & simple! -- 1 John 4:18


If he truly believed in JESUS, then JESUS would be exalted in every aspect of his experience, both prior to and after his discovery that JESUS is the Savior. And he would be telling the WORLD this GOOD NEWS... which IS the GOSPEL... as JESUS instructed his followers to do -- Mark 16:15



Dollarsbill,

If you are ABLE, ...please provide even One verse where it says that -- "God does indeed BURN HUMANS ALIVE" If you CANNOT... those are YOUR WORDS, not HIS. And also, if you CANNOT, then YOU are ADDING unto His WORD... which is a BIG problem for YOU, not me. -- Rev 22:18-- Prov 30:6 -- Deut 4:2


You have been warned of your transgressions bro... ignoring them will not keep you from REAPING what you SOW (being a MESSENGER of the BAD NEWS of HELL) -- Gal 6:8 -- BLATANT disregard to INSTRUCTED teaching, has its own (negative/shameful) "reward"...

The GOSPEL [Euagglizo, Euaggelion] is GOOD NEWS... "HELL" is NOT.

Dollarsbill,

While you are looking for the verse that says "GOD will BURN HUMAN ALIVE", ...if you are ABLE, ...try to find a verse wherein, JESUS INSTRUCTS/Commands us to teach the WORLD, of "HELL" -- Matt 28:20

As I said, you are a "savior" of yourself... which is the method of orthodox ignorance of Scripture, ...by BELIEVING in this or that (Hell, etc), and by YOU "letting CHRIST save YOU!... a FINITE and temporal being, thinking he is able to make "ETERNAL decisions"...

Could you be more decieved than you are?

Please...

May you find PEACE... in the stead of your FEAR of HELL, which does not even exist.


...willieH

 

[WillieH]

Scripture disagrees with all these suggestions of dollarsbill:

He certainly can do anything, but change. He can't stop being holy and righteous. He can't stop being God.

With GOD, ...NOTHING is IMPOSSIBLE -- Matt 17:20 -- Mark 10:27 -- Luke 1:37

First dollarsbill says GOD can do ANYTHING, then He immediately generates a list that He cannot "do"... ...no "cake & eat it to" is allowed here!

We all make choices. Some choose to serve God. The majority chooses not to serve God.

There is NONE righteous, no, not one -- Psalm 14:1-3 -- Rom 3:10-12

No one CHOOSES to serve God of himself -- John 6:44 -- only when GOD calls, can one come to serve... including "dollarsbill" (which assumes that He "serves" God, because HE chose to! )

God certainly could have created everyone so that everyone would be saved. He didn't.

God is NOT WILLING [with INTENT -- BOULEMA] that ANY should PERISH -- 2 Pet 3:9

Romans 9:14-18 (NASB)
14 What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there? May it never be! 15 For He says to Moses, "I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION." 16 So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "FOR THIS VERY PURPOSE I RAISED YOU UP, TO DEMONSTRATE MY POWER IN YOU, AND THAT MY NAME MIGHT BE PROCLAIMED THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE EARTH." 18 So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires. [/quote]

FIRST --- GOD is without RESPECT OF PERSONS (impartial) for HE SAYS that it is NOT GOOD -- Prov 28:21 -- Acts 10:34 -- Rom 2:11 (and 7 others)... and Vs 14 say "there is no injustice with God, is there?" ...well,

PARTIALITY (according to GOD) is INJUSTICE (not GOOD) according to the verses I just noted. It is therefore "dollarsbill"s" understanding of -- Rom 9:14-18 -- that is amiss.

SECOND --- In this life... GOD sent His son, to TAKE AWAY the SIN of the WORLD -- John 1:29 -- John 3:16-17 -- either He DID or He DID NOT accomplish this task...

If He DID NOT... then HE FAILED... As did GOD (LOVE - 1 John 4:8 -- 1 cor 13:8) FAIL... this is foolishness... again "dollarsbill" is the one amiss.

GOD is UNCHANGING -- Mal 3:6 -- as is HIS WORD -- Heb 13:8 -- James 1:17

HE sent His WORD forth to ACCOMPLISH ALL that He SENT it to DO -- Isaiah 55:11 -- John 3:16-17 -- 2 Pet 3:9


YHVH SENT His Son to SAVE the WORLD, and that is JUST what happened -- Col 1:20 -- Once Time has run its course (and in DUE TIME), the WORLD is SAVED by JESUS CHRIST -- 1 Tim 2:3-6


Only the UNREASONABLE -- Isaiah 1:18 -- and UNSTUDIED -- Acts 17:10-11 -- Prov 25:2 -- shall find the PERFECTION of the SALVATION of the WORLD, which JESUS was sent to, and DID accomplish -- Luke 19:10 -- 2 Cor 5:19 -- 1 John 4:14 -- 1 Tim 4:9-11-- to be a FAILED endeavor...



So much for the UNSCRIPTURAL opinions of "dollarsbill", which FALL before the POWER of the WORD of LOVE.



PEACE...

...willieH

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Those who go to Jesus .. hmm .. those who believe in Jesus .. those who preach about Jesus .. those who live the reality of Jesus .

Those who go to hell .. hmm .. those who believe in hell .. those who preach about hell .. those who create the reality of hell .

 

[Soulgazer]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]120.[/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]The human naturally unites with the human, the horse unites with the horse, the donkey unites with the donkey; the species naturally unite with their like-species. Thus the Spirit naturally unites with the Spirit, and the Logos mates with the Logos, [and the] Light mates [with the Light. If thou] become human, (then) [mankind shall] love thee; if thou become [spiritual], (then) the Spirit shall mate with thee; if thou become rational, (then) the Logos shall unite with thee; if thou become enlightened, (then) the Light shall mate with thee; if thou transcend, (then) the Transcendental shall repose upon thee. (But) if thou are accustomed to become (like a) horse or donkey or calf or dog or sheep or other of the animals (which are) outside and inferior, (then) neither mankind nor the Spirit nor the Logos nor the Light nor those above nor those within shall be able to love thee. They shall not be able to repose in thee, and thy heritage shall not be among them.[/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman, serif](Sir 13:16, Ph 108; Eccl [Ben Sirach] 13:19-20, ‘Every beast loves its like; so also every person him that is nearest to himself. All flesh shall consort with the like to itself, and every person shall associate himself to his like’; hyperlinear) [/FONT]

 

[Soulgazer]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]120.[/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]The human naturally unites with the human, the horse unites with the horse, the donkey unites with the donkey; the species naturally unite with their like-species. Thus the Spirit naturally unites with the Spirit, and the Logos mates with the Logos, [and the] Light mates [with the Light. If thou] become human, (then) [mankind shall] love thee; if thou become [spiritual], (then) the Spirit shall mate with thee; if thou become rational, (then) the Logos shall unite with thee; if thou become enlightened, (then) the Light shall mate with thee; if thou transcend, (then) the Transcendental shall repose upon thee. (But) if thou are accustomed to become (like a) horse or donkey or calf or dog or sheep or other of the animals (which are) outside and inferior, (then) neither mankind nor the Spirit nor the Logos nor the Light nor those above nor those within shall be able to love thee. They shall not be able to repose in thee, and thy heritage shall not be among them.[/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman, serif](Sir 13:16, Ph 108; Eccl [Ben Sirach] 13:19-20, ‘Every beast loves its like; so also every person him that is nearest to himself. All flesh shall consort with the like to itself, and every person shall associate himself to his like’; hyperlinear) [/FONT]

 

[dollarsbill]

With GOD, ...NOTHING is IMPOSSIBLE -- Matt 17:20 -- Mark 10:27 -- Luke 1:37

First dollarsbill says GOD can do ANYTHING, then He immediately generates a list that He cannot "do"... ...no "cake & eat it to" is allowed here!

Nothing is too difficult for God. But He cannot lie, which has nothing to do with His power.

There is NONE righteous, no, not one -- Psalm 14:1-3 -- Rom 3:10-12

No one CHOOSES to serve God of himself -- John 6:44 -- only when GOD calls, can one come to serve... including "dollarsbill" (which assumes that He "serves" God, because HE chose to! )

Are you a puppet? I'm not.

God is NOT WILLING [with INTENT -- BOULEMA] that ANY should PERISH -- 2 Pet 3:9

Romans 9:14-18 (NASB)
17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "FOR THIS VERY PURPOSE I RAISED YOU UP, TO DEMONSTRATE MY POWER IN YOU, AND THAT MY NAME MIGHT BE PROCLAIMED THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE EARTH." 18 So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.

Thank you for pointing out that God didn't have mercy on Pharaoh.

PARTIALITY (according to GOD) is INJUSTICE (not GOOD) according to the verses I just noted. It is therefore "dollarsbill"s" understanding of -- Rom 9:14-18 -- that is amiss.

Who can tell God what He can or cannot do? You?

SECOND --- In this life... GOD sent His son, to TAKE AWAY the SIN of the WORLD -- John 1:29 -- John 3:16-17 -- either He DID or He DID NOT accomplish this task...

And He did, for those who believe and repent. The majority do not.

If He DID NOT... then HE FAILED... As did GOD (LOVE - 1 John 4:8 -- 1 cor 13:8) FAIL... this is foolishness... again "dollarsbill" is the one amiss.

I never said God failed so please don't accuse me of it.

YHVH SENT His Son to SAVE the WORLD, and that is JUST what happened -- Col 1:20 -- Once Time has run its course (and in DUE TIME), the WORLD is SAVED by JESUS CHRIST -- 1 Tim 2:3-6

Which would be fine if the Bible was only one verse.

Only the UNREASONABLE -- Isaiah 1:18 -- and UNSTUDIED -- Acts 17:10-11 -- Prov 25:2 -- shall fail to find the PERFECTION of the SALVATION of the WORLD, which JESUS was sent to, and DID accomplish -- Luke 19:10 -- 2 Cor 5:19 -- 1 John 4:14 -- 1 Tim 4:9-11-- to be a FAILED endeavor...

Salvation is only for those who believe and love God. That leaves out a HUGE amount of humans regardless of what you say.

So much for the UNSCRIPTURAL opinions of "dollarsbill", which FALL before the POWER of the WORD of LOVE.

Your Bible seems to be missing many pages.

John 3:36 (NASB)
36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

 

[squint]

Some believers(?) are not even sure of their own salvation. It would be 'natural' then for same to see others with a much darker eye.

s

 

[dollarsbill]

Some believers(?) are not even sure of their own salvation. It would be 'natural' then for same to see others with a much darker eye.

s

If Universalism is true then it doesn't matter.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

If Universalism is true then it doesn't matter.

If that is your mentality you're probably not thinking of others.

I mean .. if there's this great awesome freedom to experience .. then why not tell everybody . God is the one changing hearts anyway . you weren't thinking that was your job .. did you?