Where is your evidence creationists?

USincognito

a post by Alan Smithee
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So what is happening here is that I list frauds.....in the evolutionary world and you quickly change the subject....address the frauds and quit running.

This is kind of ironic as your "list of frauds" has been addressed at least once by Split Rock and a second time by myself, and yet you chose, this morning, to address neither of the refutations of your "claims", but instead to bleet, blather and change the subject.

Well one thing leads to another....and I find it all interesting. What I can't read about entropy? LOL

From what I have read...entropy shoots evolution dead in the water.

Let me guess. What you've been reading are Creationist straw men of 2LoT and entropy so of course it would seem that way. Have you given a moments notice to either the actual science behind 2LoT or entropy or rebuttals to Creationist straw man claims about them?

"The universe is dying from heat loss but according to entropy or the second law of thermodynamics everything runs from order to disorder and from complexity to decay. Evolution directly contradicts this law....in that.. it describes a universe in which things run from utter chaos to complexity and
order. In evolution atoms allegedly self-produce amino acids, amino acids auto-organize amoebas, amoebas turn into apes and apes evolve into astronauts." The Farce of Evolution, by Hank Hanegraaff page 85.

Hank Hanegraff is an idiot. His understanding of physics and biology make my laymans understanding of them appear professorial. I mean the last quoted sentence alone is such a farce, any person with even a passing acquaintence with biology would laugh at his parody... except it's not a parody.

The conditions that hold true in the universe today prevent any possiblity of matter springing out of nothing...

Ooops, there you go with the "out of nothing" claim again, which just shows you don't know anything about the Big Bang Theory.

.so the universe could not have eternally existed. This hypothesis is killed by the law of entropy...which predicts that a universe that has eternally existed would have died out billions of years ago...by heat loss.

Wow, I thought Hank Hanegraff didn't know what he was talking about.

So when you say this has nothing to do with evolution and the whole scheme of things...you are wrong. It just tossed out one theory that evolutionists have about the possiblities of how everything came to be.

See the post I made about a half hour ago. God started everything in motion and physics led to chemistry, chemistry led to life, life evolved. Now what? And since you claim to be arguing against evolution or "Darwinism" or whatever, what does it matter how the universe came to be or how life started? Evoultion only addresses extant life and what happens to it.

Can you actually argue against evolution or would you rather stick to your God of the Gaps tactic and myopically focus on Cosmology and abiogenesis and muck about with atheists?

Just a question for ya. Do you think there are any creation scientists on earth? Are they out to lunch too? I think that you so hate the idea of God that you will believe anything and I mean anything......like something came from nothing.

There are scientists who are Creationists, but not because of the science. There are scientists who are creationists and not only accept evolution, they argue in favor of it like Francis Collins, Kenneth Miller, Mary Schweitzer, Robert Bakker, and a bunch of people who post to Christianforums like sfs, KerrMetric, lucaspa, and several others I'm embarrassed for forgetting now.
 
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USincognito

a post by Alan Smithee
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You blindly believe in evolution because you read it in some book and because some textbooks call it fact. That is enough for you. And as I said if you think every scientist on earth thinks it fact you are wrong.

There's so much to absolutely destroy in this post, but I don't have the time so let me focus on this moment of supreme irony.

You post walls of quote mined text with citations like "B. Johnson, Scientist" and "W. A. Moneybags, 1923" and have the temerity to accuse others of taking something at face value just "because you read it in some book"? You even admit in that post that you haven't read a single source for those supposed quotes? That's some chutzpah hon. The lack of actual citations for the "quotes" is all the more ironic in that you didn't link to the Creationist quote mine site from whence they came.
 
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USincognito

a post by Alan Smithee
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So are you saying that all men back in that day were racist? Sexist?

Whenever someone starts a response with "So you're saying", you can be sure a straw man is to follow. That said, I think my point was perfectly clear. Darwin had the same flaws regarding race and sex that virtually every other European male had in the mid-19th Century. And, as I noted, his views were actually more enlightened (especially after his voyage on the Beagle) than many here in America, especially Southern Baptists.

The things that Darwin said would happen did not happen. He said them in a scientific context...that the black man was inferior

Nope, try again.

that the black race WOULD DIE OUT because of survival of the fittest.

This is a straw man of his infamous quote from Descent of Man right? I forget because it's just not worth committing to memory. He got so much right and has been evidenced and vindicated over the last 150 years, that worrying about quote mines that reflect mid-19th Century European thought isn't worth my brain power.

This was a scientific observation...one that would affect many people who were living at the time...Hitler, Sanger.

Really? You think Adolph Hitler and Margaret Sanger were living at the same time as Charles Darwin? No wonder you're so confused.

They took his observations and theories and ran with them.

Ooops, you're succumbing to the Creationist straw man that evolution advocated "Social Darwinism", that Hitler based the Holocaust on evolution and that Margaret Sanger was a big fan of Darwin and Hitler. Unfortunately it doesn't matter if every single one of those things were true. They wouldn't effect evolutionary theory one iota. Nuclear bombs don't tarnish atomic theory in the least. Facts are facts. Misuse of them doesn't change the fact that they are so.

That said, Social Darwinism was not a logical outcome of Darwin's theory of evolution because it didn't take into account the "natural" part of "natural selection. The Holocaust was the result of numerous factors including Germany's historic anti-Semitism dating back to Martin Luther and earlier. And Margaret Sanger and other Eugenicists were suggesting a form of selective breeding (note, again, the lack of "natural selection") that had been practiced with our fellow animals for 10,000+ years and by societies dating back at least as far as the Spartans 2000 years before Darwin.

I'm guessing you didn't know all this stuff before jumping into the Crevo debate, did you?
 
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Split Rock

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Astridhere

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Hank Hanegraff is an idiot. His understanding of physics and biology make my laymans understanding of them appear professorial. I mean the last quoted sentence alone is such a farce, any person with even a passing acquaintence with biology would laugh at his parody... except it's not a parody.



quote]


You may as well add your mate Dawkins to the list. He is an idiot also.

Did he know with all his woffle and arrogance that Afarensis is 'too derived' to be in the human line?

I am still waiting to get his book "An ancestors tale".

I'd say with evidence that Afarensis is likely a gorilla ancestor, Dawkins is also proven to be an idiot.

I think all evolutionary researchers are idiots and should be publicly shamed or fired on the back of 150 years of unstable rubbish presented so far overturned by a single fossil over and over again.

Evolutionary research is one of the few fields where one can be consistently wrong and not get fired.
 
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Astridhere

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What was the first cause?

What started evolution?

Forget everything else........and tell me about the very first cause.


I'll tell you. Evolutionists believe some dead lifeless elements poofed into a living factory to arrive at one beautiful living cell all alone that 'learned' to multiply. There was no reason it just happened here on earth and nowhere else so far.

That was of course until along came HGT with a large knife and cut LUCA out of the program resulting in many cells, little factories, poofing into existence all by themselves, but none ever since.

These cells poofed into all life we see today, regardless of the obvious limits to variation that are demonstrated and observed today.


It is a great story. Too bad it is ridiculous.

I wonder if some little group of mankind on some Island somewhere will morph into an aquatic creature, to escape rising sea levels. Maybe they will learn to fly.......


 
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Astridhere

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If you haven't bothered reading enough to realize that Astridhere is a girl, you need to read more closely and try again, me thinks.


You should not worry about gender oversights. You have 150 years of overturned rubbish to deal with.
 
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You should not worry about gender oversights. You have 150 years of overturned rubbish to deal with.
Why do you think no one else knows what you know? why do companies spend billions of dollars all over the world on projects that are based on the ToE? why don't they ever listen to creationists? don't let this fact stop you from saying what you're saying but doesn't it even make you wonder why?

The sad fact is, evolution works every time, it can be relied on to give the same answers and results time after time.
 
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Astridhere

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I will not allow evolutionists to attempt to brainwash me into thinking that evolution is science. What it is... is science fiction.

Yea the good ole Nebraska man....Piltdown and Orce Man....then there was the Haeckles embryo fraud, did I mention Java Man and Neanderthal Man and little Lucy? Archaeoraptor the missing link fraud.

Evolution frauds « Evolution is not science

O. C. Marsh, “Recent Polydactyle Horses”, American Journal of Science 43, 1892, pp. 339-354 – as quoted in Creation Research Society Quarterly correspondence, Vol. 30, December 1993, p. 125.

Niles Eldredge, as quoted in: Luther D. Sunderland, Darwin’s Enigma: Fossils and Other Problems, fourth edition (revised and expanded), Master Book Publishers, Santee (California),1988, p. 78.


You are spot on here.

The nice gradual rise of the horse is now disproved.

Many researchers contest the dino to bird theory on the back of new evidence.

Turk the athlete is undergoing a pelvis reconstruction and total stature rethink at being a 5'4" waddler with a whackey pelvis.

150 yerars or more and they still only have a theory in evolution and the only thing that is evolving around here.

Now this lot have got boofheaded waddling apes, Erectus, with cranial vaults comparable to Rudolfensis at 525cc caring for large brained babies with weak and vulnerable neck support, and immature immune and digestive systems that go along with large brained human babies, caring for them and lighting fires. What a laugh!

I wonder how these apes kept their young from eating their own poop, knew to feed regularly, and clothe thier infant from the cold after migration out of Africa.

Answer: They didn't because they were just apes. Apes are born with ability to cling to their mother and can seek the nipple themselves, Humans do not, infants are totally reliant on parental intelligence to survive.

Creationists can never have the last word with evos. They always have some algorithmic magic to present as evidence. They also have research that backs any view. In fact all they agree on is "It all evolved". The how, when, where and why remain up for grabs by any enterprising evo wanting glory. They can be wrong and won't get fired.

Too bad algorithms do not over ride observation although they would like them to. Algorithms are great. They can prove Tellitubbies are an intermediate human with the right insertion values.
 
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Astridhere

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Why do you think no one else knows what you know? why do companies spend billions of dollars on projects that are based on the ToE? why don't they ever listen to creationists? don't let this fact stop you from saying what you're saying but doesn't it even make you wonder why?

I will repeat again. You lot went on about mankinds knucklewalking ancestry for over 150 years. You lot had the diagrams and fossils to support this assertion. Any creationist that argued against this irrefuteable 'evidence' would have been demeaned and called an ignorant idiot.

There are many examples of single fossils falsifying 'irrefuteable evidence' that ends up in the great garbage bin of evolutionary delusions past.


NOW...who are the idiots? Evolutionists....... Case closed.
 
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I will repeat again. You lot went on about mankinds knucklewalking ancestry for over 150 years. You lot had the diagrams and fossils to support this assertion. Any creationist that argued against this irrefuteable 'evidence' would have been demeaned and called an ignorant idiot.

There are many examples of single fossils falsifying 'irrefuteable evidence' that ends up in the great garbage bin of evolutionary delusions past.


NOW...who are the idiots? Evolutionists....... Case closed.
You could well be right but how come no one else in the world of science and business believes you?
everything you say could be 110% right but no one believes you or backs you with one penny, how come?
what does the rest of the world know that you don't? do oil companies ask creation scientists to help them?
do any businesses in the world ask creation scientists to help them with ANYTHING?
if we didn't know better we would think that creation scientists are only there to fool creationists.

It's strange when you think how much the creation scientists of AiG have discovered over the years they have existed,
by the way what have they discovered? what have they contributed to the knowledge of mankind?
 
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You appear to be assuming that life begin with a single organism only once and only in one environment.
Evolution is based on the Last Universal ancestor. For example Bible Adam and Eve were common ancestors 6,000 years ago for the Hebrew/Jewish people. But Adam still had a belly button, at least according to Science Adam descended from people that came before him.
 
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do oil companies ask creation scientists to help them?
Oil companies do not ask evolutionists for help. They hire geologists. The same geological science that give us OEC creationism. So in a way yes they do hire creationists and not evolutionists. You somehow managed to paint yourself into a corner on that one. It just so happens that the data they come up with is very useful for evolution. Esp when they are looking for off shore oil. So evos owe a debt of gratitude to oil companys for paying for research. Oil companies owe nothing to evolution theory.
 
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CabVet

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Oil companies do not ask evolutionists for help. They hire geologists. The same geological science that give us OEC creationism. So in a way yes they do hire creationists and not evolutionists. You somehow managed to paint yourself into a corner on that one. It just so happens that the data they come up with is very useful for evolution. Esp when they are looking for off shore oil. So evos owe a debt of gratitude to oil companys for paying for research. Oil companies owe nothing to evolution theory.

Geological sciences did not gave you OEC. Creationists did.
 
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RickG

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Evolution is based on the Last Universal ancestor. For example Bible Adam and Eve were common ancestors 6,000 years ago for the Hebrew/Jewish people. But Adam still had a belly button, at least according to Science Adam descended from people that came before him.

Perhaps you might actually learn something about what evolution is before carelessly and erroneously criticizing and dismissing it.
 
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mdancin4theLord

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Uh Oh. Looks like someone is in over her head.

Regurgitating stuff from Creationist sites - rebuked and rebutted.
Wild, baseless claims about science - rebuked and rebutted.
Wall of text quote mines - rebuked and rebutted.
Fall back on metaphysics and God of the Gaps - see below.


Alright dancer. God was the first cause of the universe 13 billion years ago setting things in motion that led to neucleosynthesis and the earliest stars. Some of them went supernova creating heavy elements and spreading them amongst the cosmos. Some of the primordial hydrogen and heavier elements coalesced into a disk about 5 billion years ago leading to the birth of the sun and eventually the earth. About 3.5 billion years ago the first life appeared on earth and it has been evolving ever since.

Now what? You want to discuss the evolution that has occured over the last 3.5 billion years or do you want to appeal to the God of the Gaps and stick with abiogenesis and the Big Bang. If the latter, you're not arguing against science, evolution, "Darwinism" or anything else. You're merely arguing against atheism and need to stick to philiosophy and metaphysics rather than jump into the scientific debate.

WHAT WAS THE FIRST CAUSE?

And don't tell me what I can do and what i can't do. If you do not want to address me then don't. I would like to know who here is a scientists...who has written books or has published anything regarding this topic? We have so many experts here. What are your qualifications?
 
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CabVet

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WHAT WAS THE FIRST CAUSE?

And don't tell me what I can do and what i can't do. If you do not want to address me then don't. I would like to know who here is a scientists...who has written books or has published anything regarding this topic? We have so many experts here. What are your qualifications?

Oh, we are in a qualifications match now? Can't kill the message? Kill the messenger. Lead by example and show yours first.
 
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