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Would you be bad without God?

Faulty

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If there was no moral authority, there could be no moral absolutes.

Scripture tells us,

For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.
Romans 2:14-16

Those who don't have the Law of God to follow, has that law written on their hearts by God. This is why even the most remote of peoples have their own laws and customs against such things like murder and stealing, because thet inherently know these things are wrong and harmful, and even serves to show them and us that where there is a law, there is a law-giver (and they will be held without excuse).


Likewise, when there is no law-giver, then ther is no law, and what is evil to me, may not be evil to you, and vice-versa.
 
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If there was no moral authority, there could be no moral absolutes.

Scripture tells us,
For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.
Romans 2:14-16
Those who don't have the Law of God to follow, has that law written on their hearts by God. This is why even the most remote of peoples have their own laws and customs against such things like murder and stealing, because thet inherently know these things are wrong and harmful, and even serves to show them and us that where there is a law, there is a law-giver (and they will be held without excuse).


Likewise, when there is no law-giver, then ther is no law, and what is evil to me, may not be evil to you, and vice-versa.

Can you imagine a society existing where everyone killed each other? It wouldn't last long would it? Or if you take any animal that competes physically for females, have you ever wondered why they don't just kill each other?
It is not morality, which is the invention of humans. It is because neither is evolutionary stable, and only methods that allow a stable population survive enough generations.
Not only is this fact, it is far more likely than your proposal of a far-reaching God. Which is based on 'if there is law there is a law-giver' which is terrible logic. Now you know you do not need a law giver for us to inherently act a certain way, do you have any other argument?
 
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grasping the after wind

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Would you care about being evil if there was no God?

Just interested because many of you have replied to other threads saying you wouldn't, I was wondering if this was a popular belief.

Thanks

Two questions
Would you be bad without God?
Yes, I already do bad things with God being there.

Would you care about being evil if there was no God?
What is evil if there is no God? Don't I then get to decide on my own what is evil? If that is the case I know I wouldn't be evil ever no matter what I did because I'm really a very good person that deserves good things and all I'm doing is what it takes to acquire them. Evil would be stopping me from acquiring what I deserve.
 
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drich0150

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If their isn't any one we must ultimatly be accountable to the what is the point of personal accountablity?

I've always said the Christianity/God is what is keep the worst of us from being unleashed on the rest of you.
 
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Insufferable Forgiveness

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Would you care about being evil if there was no God?

Just interested because many of you have replied to other threads saying you wouldn't, I was wondering if this was a popular belief.

Thanks

i see it as this no God no Satan no Evil if
there is no God there would be no Satan
then there would be no evil....
 
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AlexBP

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Would you care about being evil if there was no God?
I was an atheist until age 23. Up to that time I cared about the difference between good and evil, in the sense that in my head I thought of most other humans beings as evil and hated them, and I listed a very few others as good. But I largely ignored any application of the principles of good and evil to my own life. For example, I believed that it was evil to ignore the plight of the poor, yet at the same time I rarely did anything to assist the poor myself.
 
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AlexBP

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Can you imagine a society existing where everyone killed each other?
Imagination is not necessary. There have been such societies, ranging from primitive tribes in the Amazon to modern-day examples such as the Soviet Union under Stalin, Germany under Hitler, and China under Mao. You may personally feel that the culture of a primitive Amazon tribe is not evolutionary stable, but the tribesmen didn't seem to care very much. You may personally think that Stalin's leadership style wasn't evolutionary stable. but he apparently didn't get the memo.

Or if you take any animal that competes physically for females, have you ever wondered why they don't just kill each other?
Some do. Take cats, for instance. A male cat will kill any kittens that are not his direct descendants if he gets the chance to do so. He will also fight with any other male cat that he perceives as a threat to his territory, and the results of such fights are often fatal. Again, you can call it "not evolutionary stable" if you choose, but the cats don't seem to care.
 
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Ezeretane

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OK let imagine there's no God or no good and evil as a definition ,it will still have consequence of the actions we do and it would be happiness or sorrow an sadness
then we'll realize that we can't help being who we are (i assume that everyone agree that humans can't help hurting each other and i'm not necessary talking about killing but fraud, cheating,lying,etc...) and even if we don't recognize right or wrong we would recognize happines and sadness and we would try every thing in our power to change the situations
which is impossible for men
but hopeful there is an almighty Lord ... and you know the rest ;p

bless you

E.
 
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Imagination is not necessary. There have been such societies, ranging from primitive tribes in the Amazon to modern-day examples such as the Soviet Union under Stalin, Germany under Hitler, and China under Mao. You may personally feel that the culture of a primitive Amazon tribe is not evolutionary stable, but the tribesmen didn't seem to care very much. You may personally think that Stalin's leadership style wasn't evolutionary stable. but he apparently didn't get the memo.


Some do. Take cats, for instance. A male cat will kill any kittens that are not his direct descendants if he gets the chance to do so. He will also fight with any other male cat that he perceives as a threat to his territory, and the results of such fights are often fatal. Again, you can call it "not evolutionary stable" if you choose, but the cats don't seem to care.

You have a very odd interpretation of 'evolutionary stable'. Of course animals don't 'care' if they are stable, that isn't how evolution works. The fact is that most species get it wrong (99%). Humans are not stable as we use too many of the Earth's resources to survive. Do you care? I do, but we will still survive for a long time yet. Eventually the ecosystem will probably crash again and perhaps 'heal' and do it again in a few more millions of years. A cat (or perhaps lion would be a better example as humans created the cat, not natural selection) kills kittens so it can raise it's own and its genes survive. This is a great example of survival of the fittests, I don't see how it backs up your point at all. Hitler has nothing to do evolution, merely religious hatred.

It is very worrying to an atheist like me that many religious people see no reason to be moral without God. It makes you all seem like a cult of immoral and unhinged people with only one hope in life. Perhaps it really is better that people like you cling to your idea of God so the rest of us are safer?
 
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I was an atheist until age 23. Up to that time I cared about the difference between good and evil, in the sense that in my head I thought of most other humans beings as evil and hated them, and I listed a very few others as good. But I largely ignored any application of the principles of good and evil to my own life. For example, I believed that it was evil to ignore the plight of the poor, yet at the same time I rarely did anything to assist the poor myself.

Humans, like all animals are survivors. This makes us inherently selfish and put ourselves and our own families first as it helps us survive. The only evil in the world is due to ignorance and false promises from various religious leaders. If we all took the time to understand the world and one another then we could achieve true empathy. We can be good without the need to submit to a false deity. You don't need to think it as evil to not help someone, you can genuinely want to make a difference for no other reason than because you know it is the right thing to do. Not everything has to revolve around getting a reward or punishment after you die.
 
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OK let imagine there's no God or no good and evil as a definition ,it will still have consequence of the actions we do and it would be happiness or sorrow an sadness
then we'll realize that we can't help being who we are (i assume that everyone agree that humans can't help hurting each other and i'm not necessary talking about killing but fraud, cheating,lying,etc...) and even if we don't recognize right or wrong we would recognize happines and sadness and we would try every thing in our power to change the situations
which is impossible for men
but hopeful there is an almighty Lord ... and you know the rest ;p

bless you

E.

Do you ever question why God created humans in a way that we can't help making evil in the world? If you can make sense of it please let me know.
 
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Two questions
Would you be bad without God?
Yes, I already do bad things with God being there.

Would you care about being evil if there was no God?
What is evil if there is no God? Don't I then get to decide on my own what is evil? If that is the case I know I wouldn't be evil ever no matter what I did because I'm really a very good person that deserves good things and all I'm doing is what it takes to acquire them. Evil would be stopping me from acquiring what I deserve.

How have you deduced that you deserve anything? That doesn't sound very Christian just exceedingly arrogant and narcissistic.
Evil is pretty simple to understand with or without the concept of God. What don't you understand? But since you think you wouldn't be evil without God anyway, doesn't that show you don't really need to memorise a list of rules? You act a certain way due to your conscience, morals and understanding of the world. This allows you to not want to be bad, but WANT to be good. All on your own.
 
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golgotha61

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Would you care about being evil if there was no God?

Just interested because many of you have replied to other threads saying you wouldn't, I was wondering if this was a popular belief.

Thanks

I waited until some posts were made to see if you would go in the direction your question demands, and you did. The underlying statement and assumption in your question is: if there is no God then we are here through evolution. If one assumes that we are here through evolution, then you have removed the “God quotient” and every answer given by a believer is open to challenge and the Christian has lost the ability to draw on what we know is the truth and that is His word. So to address your question: if there is no God then there is nothing and if there is nothing then your question can not be asked because you do not exist.
 
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AlexBP

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Humans, like all animals are survivors. This makes us inherently selfish and put ourselves and our own families first as it helps us survive.
First of all, there are many human beings who are not inherently selfish. People such as Saint Francis of Assisi, Mother Teresa, and Mahatma Gandhi were not selfish. On the flip side, many people commit suicide, so some people obviously aren't survivors either. In the vast majority of murders, the perpetrator and the victim are family members. So obviously humanity as a whole has no inherent care for family. Some people choose to be selfish, some choose to care only about their families, some choose to care about all of humanity and some choose to care about nothing at all. Given the wide variety of different moral choices that people make, we can easily reject any claim that there is a single moral system "inherent" in all or most of humanity.
The only evil in the world is due to ignorance and false promises from various religious leaders.
Truly? What about atheists such as Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Tito, Fidel Castro, Che Guevara, Slobidan Milosevic, Park Kung Hee, who are responsible for murdering, torturing, and imprisoning millions of innocent people? Are they not evil in your book?
If we all took the time to understand the world and one another then we could achieve true empathy.
True. But everyone I know of who understands the world and his or her fellow human beings turns to God. Off the top of my head, I cannot name very many non-believers who I would expect very much empathy from.
You don't need to think it as evil to not help someone, you can genuinely want to make a difference for no other reason than because you know it is the right thing to do.
In my hometown of Culpeper, VA, there is the Food Closet in St. Stephen's Episcopal Church, the Soup Kitchen in St. Luke's Lutheran Church, the St. Thomas medical clinic and so forth. On the other hand, I cannot recall hearing about the Friedrich Nietzsche Food Closet, where they hand out canned vegetables because it's beyond good and evil. I have never seen the Sigmund Freud Soup Kitchen, where they ladle out soup and lectures about the Oedipus complex. I have never encountered the Richard Dawkins medical clinic where they give free screenings to the poor because it's an evolutionarily stable strategy. Now perhaps these things exist and I missed them; all I can say with certainty is that I've never seen them. Hence I'm hesitant to rely on the generosity of atheists.
 
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AlexBP

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You have a very odd interpretation of 'evolutionary stable'. Of course animals don't 'care' if they are stable, that isn't how evolution works. The fact is that most species get it wrong (99%). Humans are not stable as we use too many of the Earth's resources to survive. Do you care?
In 1972, the Club of Rome issued a report called The Limits to Growth, which stated that the world would run out of gold in 1981, mercury in 1985, tin in 1987, zinc in 1990, oil in 1991, and copper, lead, and natural gas in 1993. In 1968 Paul Ehrlich's book The Population Bomb told us that there would be mass famine in the 1970's because the world would simply run out of land to grow food on. And in 2004, James Howard Kunstler said that the world had reached "peak oil" and gas stations were soon going to be running out. I figure that since all of these predicted catastrophes and a great many others failed to materialized, yours probably will as well.
 
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