Would you be bad without God?

[Curious Atheist]

In 1972, the Club of Rome issued a report called The Limits to Growth, which stated that the world would run out of gold in 1981, mercury in 1985, tin in 1987, zinc in 1990, oil in 1991, and copper, lead, and natural gas in 1993. In 1968 Paul Ehrlich's book The Population Bomb told us that there would be mass famine in the 1970's because the world would simply run out of land to grow food on. And in 2004, James Howard Kunstler said that the world had reached "peak oil" and gas stations were soon going to be running out. I figure that since all of these predicted catastrophes and a great many others failed to materialized, yours probably will as well.

are you trying to argue that all our resources are infinite? Yes, people have made poor predictions in the past about when they will deplete but that just adds them to list of people who have been wrong about something. However, one day things like helium and oil will run out if we continue to rely on them. I don't know know when. But also the way we live in general isn't sustainable, but that is a different issue.

Do any of you know of a Christian who became atheist? Did they suddenly become immoral?

 

[MetanoiaHeart]

I waited until some posts were made to see if you would go in the direction your question demands, and you did. The underlying statement and assumption in your question is: if there is no God then we are here through evolution. If one assumes that we are here through evolution, then you have removed the “God quotient” and every answer given by a believer is open to challenge and the Christian has lost the ability to draw on what we know is the truth and that is His word. So to address your question: if there is no God then there is nothing and if there is nothing then your question can not be asked because you do not exist.

Exactly!

 

[grasping the after wind]

How have you deduced that you deserve anything? That doesn't sound very Christian just exceedingly arrogant and narcissistic.
Evil is pretty simple to understand with or without the concept of God. What don't you understand? But since you think you wouldn't be evil without God anyway, doesn't that show you don't really need to memorise a list of rules? You act a certain way due to your conscience, morals and understanding of the world. This allows you to not want to be bad, but WANT to be good. All on your own.

If there is no God, then you are not a god, and if you are not a god, I refuse to be held to a moral standard that you have devised based upon your own prejudices, preferences and idiosyncrasies. Calling someone arrogant and narcissistic for saying they deserve good things while pontificating about what is and isn't evil as if you somehow are in a position to better declare what is evil than I or any other member of the human race seems so ironic it must be an intentional parody. I told you if there is no God I am always good and never do evil because there is no way that I will accept anyone who is no greater than I am defining those terms for me. Despite your obvious religious zeal for your own morality and your imagined right to impose it upon others I do not consider you to be my superior and therefore reject your attempt to foist your personal beliefs about evil upon me.

 

[Sketcher]

It makes you all seem like a cult of immoral and unhinged people with only one hope in life.

At least we're honest about it. I think it's interesting that I freely admit that about myself as do other Christians who are better than I, but atheists I've met who are considered decently moral people by human standards will not.

 

[razeontherock]

The only evil in the world is due to ignorance and false promises from various religious leaders.

You have a really hard time trying to back up a claim like that. Most serial killers for example, not to mention most salepeople's false promises that have nothing whatsoever to do with religion.

I think this is a statement (and position) you need to retract.

 

[Sketcher]

The only evil in the world is due to ignorance and false promises from various religious leaders.

Are you saying that Lenin, Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot were religious leaders?

 

[razeontherock]

Do you ever question why God created humans in a way that we can't help making evil in the world? If you can make sense of it please let me know.

That's a silly stance to take for someone who says you can be moral without God. Christianity has no message of we "cant help making evil." No aspect of indwelling sin was ever capable of forcing anyone to commit murder, theft, rape, or anything remotely like that.

 

[razeontherock]

Are you saying that Lenin, Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot were religious leaders?

That was my first thought too. Obviously the atheist agrees with us that secular humanism and communism are indeed their own brand of religion. How long will it take him to concede that Ev is, as well?

 

[razeontherock]

Mr OP, many statements you have made show you have never considered this:

"For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law."

Your main point in this thread is merely a paraphrase of what was written prior to 64 AD; and is something we are all aware of.

 

[elman]

Would you care about being evil if there was no God?

Just interested because many of you have replied to other threads saying you wouldn't, I was wondering if this was a popular belief.

Thanks

If evil is being unloving to others, I would hope I would not be evil if there was no God, because I believe the best way for us to live, even if there is no Creator is to be loving toward others.

 

[AlexBP]

are you trying to argue that all our resources are infinite?

No, my point is quite different. The so-called experts who make predictions about when a resource will run out do so by looking at the amount of the resource and the rate at which we're using it and doing a simple calculation. That approach would work on a question such as when a dog will run out of dog food, since the dog has no control over the situation. Human beings, on the other hand, are able to make decisions and use reason, which allows us to avoid running out of anything. Not long ago, the experts were sure that we'd run out of copper for telephone wires. Then we invented fiber optic cables and suddenly we no longer needed copper for that purporse, so we didn't run out of it. Similarly we will not run out of oil, because we will find ways to get from place to place without oil. In fact, we already have the necessary technology; it simply isn't cost-effective to use that technology while there's still so much oil sitting around.

More generally, know human society is sustainable forever. History teaches that societies always change until they're no longer recognizable as what they started as. However, the reason for this is the choices human beings make, as opposed to the amounts of natural resources.

Do any of you know of a Christian who became atheist? Did they suddenly become immoral?

I know some people who gradually drifted away from Christianity and ended up getting sucked down the drain of drug use, alcoholism, easy sex, and so forth.

 

[leftrightleftrightleft]

Would you care about being evil if there was no God?

Whose evil?

 

[Mediakira]

Would you care about being evil if there was no God?

Just interested because many of you have replied to other threads saying you wouldn't, I was wondering if this was a popular belief.

Thanks

It depends on peer pressure.

 

[prophecyistrue]

Would you care about being evil if there was no God?

Just interested because many of you have replied to other threads saying you wouldn't, I was wondering if this was a popular belief.

Thanks

If it wasn't for God making Himself known to me, I would of regressed into a killer, it was only a matter of time, If there was no God why should anyone care what they do, If only to die and become worm food, you might as well get all you can and do all you want, and kill anyone that gets in your way........but then I was shown all my sins.....and they were overwhelming......I knew I was doomed to hell......but then Jesus said give me your sin.......and He died in my place......He took the punishment that I deserved......what kind of a man would do that?........I was the most wretched man on the planet.....and He died for me!......He took my sin away, and gave me a new life, and a new spirit, He filled my heart with good things.......and helped me get free from the things that were destoying my life......hatred, unforgiveness, perversion, and a whole list of others........I hope God makes Himself known to you.......Its a game changer

 

[Ezeretane]

<staff edit>

ok you seem very mad at christians and it's not fair when it is you who ask for our opinions! you can disagree and i respect that but you also have to respect others opinions and sharing
being christians doesn't mean being perfect and certainly not hiding ,on the contrary it means realizing that on our own we can't be completely content by yourself because you need a relationship with God ,deep inside of each human being .
it's not a matter of good or evil:these are only consequences.
i personnaly never murder anyone but i've ever hurt others :i'm not perfect , i'm a sinner , but a sinner loved and saved by Love
in heaven every thing is perfect and pure so only perfect and pure people can "apply" which is impossible (even you must have once done something wrong in your life ) but with Christ every thing is "deleted" and you are so grateful and happy that you begin to change with His help :that's kind of how it worked
you are right i can't imagine my world without GOD but i don't have to justify myself because i'm happy that way an i know i have something that lot of people refuse to have because they think it's too good to be true and they are right
but when i use my brain (yes, i'm christian and i actually use it every day...) it makes so much sense:it's all about love and like on earth ,love can be accepted and shared or ignore

concerning your question about changing and searching for God
" If you or he did not want to change would you have searched for God in the first place?"
the answer is YES, because at different season of life people just ask a question :what is the sense of my life or simply :is there a God?
and if not God makes himself know and knock at the door of our heart
so there is different situation because everyone is different

bless you

E.

 

[prophecyistrue]

<staff edit>
As it doesn't make sense to me, even more so it probably won't make any sense to you, as to why God would make himself known to someone as evil as me and not to someone who is basically good like yourself.........I don't have any answers for you, but my encounter with God was at a time in my life where I was about to be killed, I had a pretty large street gang comin after me, and it wasn't for an average beat down, as I found out later a friend of mine got thrown on the traintracks in an incompacitated state, moments before the Amtrack train cut him up into pieces. My encounter with God, was mainly with an angelic visitation, (I know it sounds crazy) It was very much like that show "touched by an angel" this angel looked completely human in every way shape and form, only he was answering questions I was thinking, before I would even ask, it was very strange to say the least, he allowed me to (and there are no human words to explain) whether it was some sort of vision or what, but it was like looking up at a night sky, and I could see in my mind every bad thing I ever said and did, and some how I could fathem them all at the same time, and it was so overwhelming, because I had led a very evil life. My story is not the normal conversion, where someone thinks it might be better to have a religion, and begins to follow steps and procedures in that religion. I felt the hand of God reach inside my heart and pull something out, I have the feeling it was a spirit, because I could hear it screaming and it was a very frightning experience. Once it was out for short period time I could hear it screaming at me, all the things it had spoken quietly and softly through out my life, mimicing my own voice as it spoke, making all those suggestions and ideas appear as if they were my own for all those years, now this spirit was desperate, and it was frantically trying to convince me that the lies it had been feeding me for so long were true........(I think I understand what someone who suffers from schizophrenia goes through on a regular basis) mine only lasted a few hours. I can't describe what the love of God feels like because it was the exact opposite of the overwhelming feeling of seeing all my sins, Its something that words can not even begin to describe, and once you feel it, you know beyond all shadow of doubt God is real and He exist, and as the angel helped me understand, He sent His son Jesus to redeem the lost who I was by far the most..........I don't expect you to believe this story, its pretty far out by any standards even in this nutshell version, but like I said in a previous post I hope you get a chance to feel Gods love because it will change the way you think about everything

 

[Mediakira]

<staff edit>
What are you trying to say? There is no Christian of that description. There shouldn't be any monster hiding in any of us. We are just as human as you are. We have normal day to day lives. There is no magic involved. I think your confusing us with Pagans and Wiccans. Your argument of this debate is becoming pointless. You asked what the world would be like if there was no God. It doesn't seem you are remembering your topic of this forum. You asked:

Would you care about being evil if there was no God?

Just interested because many of you have replied to other threads saying you wouldn't, I was wondering if this was a popular belief.

Thanks

If there wasn't a "God". Would be hard thing to think about. But there are many things that has happened many centuries that didn't involve "God".

1. In B.C. era's there was so much war, and chaos.
2. In many countries they had many belief systems.
3. There is a thing called behavior science. In man-kind in many years. We tend to follow each other patterns. In the general behavior of humanity we always want things, we love to communicate with others, and we enjoy each others companies.
4. In many belief systems there always a law in many shape and form. Even if "God" didn't exist. Without law we'd be in a chaotic mess. Because law shapes our minds. As we grow from childhood. We learn how to do things and such. If a person doesn't learn anything. What would the person do if they don't know anything? Since birth?

Since in our belief in Christianity, we believe that "God" created law thru "Moses" and "Adam and Eve.", and now from "Jesus Christ." If we'd say if that "God" didn't exist. The correct answer would be. We probably be lost. We won't know what to do but rely on each other. Which leads to peer pressure. If there was no "Satan" we won't have "Christianity". Because Jesus would be safe and sound in Heaven, with His Father.We won't have to worry about "sin, or evil." And "Adam" would still be the "King" of this planet.

It seems you just set this up to attack Christians and call them evil. We don't have any magic or voodoo. The only thing we have is the "Good News" that we are suppose to spread from "Jesus Christ." "The Good News" is the fact that "God is giving us the easier passage then the one He has given us ("the old one.") The old way was "The time of Moses." Which is clearly is put in the "Constitution the Bill of Rights." That has been made since the making of America. America was created by "Christians." "We made the law of today years ago! The same law your obeying! All the Presidents are "Christians"! All the Christians care for is the well-being of all man-kind.

The way that Christianity works is that we believe in one Man that lived in this earth years ago who saved us from our sins. Who's name was "Jesus Christ." Therefore His name "Christ" hints our religion. Jesus is our Savior and our King. He saves us from our sins that we commited and gives us new life. It gives us a new chance to do right with God. Not for humanity, it is true to treat people as much love as yourself. That is the "Golden rule" of Christianity. The "Good News" is the passage of believing in the "Lord Jesus" and His father "Jehovah" or "Yahweh." (God's true name). Get Baptized in the name of "Jesus", and do good works, follow "Moses' Law", and never sin again. That's the "Christian living", and the way it works,there is nothing else to it or added. Of course to study the Bible.

 

[drich0150]

As it doesn't make sense to me, even more so it probably won't make any sense to you, as to why God would make himself known to someone as evil as me and not to someone who is basically good like yourself.........I don't have any answers for you, but my encounter with God was at a time in my life where I was about to be killed, I had a pretty large street gang coming after me, and it wasn't for an average beat down, as I found out later a friend of mine got thrown on the traintracks in an incompacitated state, moments before the Amtrack train cut him up into pieces. My encounter with God, was mainly with an angelic visitation, (I know it sounds crazy) It was very much like that show "touched by an angel" this angel looked completely human in every way shape and form, only he was answering questions I was thinking, before I would even ask, it was very strange to say the least, he allowed me to (and there are no human words to explain) whether it was some sort of vision or what, but it was like looking up at a night sky, and I could see in my mind every bad thing I ever said and did, and some how I could fathom them all at the same time, and it was so overwhelming, because I had led a very evil life. My story is not the normal conversion, where someone thinks it might be better to have a religion, and begins to follow steps and procedures in that religion. I felt the hand of God reach inside my heart and pull something out, I have the feeling it was a spirit, because I could hear it screaming and it was a very frightning experience. Once it was out for short period time I could hear it screaming at me, all the things it had spoken quietly and softly through out my life, mimicing my own voice as it spoke, making all those suggestions and ideas appear as if they were my own for all those years, now this spirit was desperate, and it was frantically trying to convince me that the lies it had been feeding me for so long were true........(I think I understand what someone who suffers from schizophrenia goes through on a regular basis) mine only lasted a few hours. I can't describe what the love of God feels like because it was the exact opposite of the overwhelming feeling of seeing all my sins, Its something that words can not even begin to describe, and once you feel it, you know beyond all shadow of doubt God is real and He exist, and as the angel helped me understand, He sent His son Jesus to redeem the lost who I was by far the most..........I don't expect you to believe this story, its pretty far out by any standards even in this nutshell version, but like I said in a previous post I hope you get a chance to feel Gods love because it will change the way you think about everything

Wow. I know/knew This love for a split second before I felt the wrath. The purpose of this brief experience was to know or completely understand the wrath. The Wrath of God is not what we in this life understand it to be.(Hell fire and brimstone for the sake of hell fire and brimstone.)

It is the complete absents of all that you knew God's love to be. Without this understanding of God's complete love. The absents of God sounds better than the hell fire and brimstone that we think of when we think of Hell. When in fact if you know the love of God as you seem to, the you will know the everlasting torment that comes from the absents of the love God has to offer..

This "feeling" invokes the emotions of one being consumed. (like in a fire) but much much worse. The panic, the fear the raw emotions are unbearable, then after a few seconds... The reality of eternity sets in, and what is left of creation and leaves as the gates shut.

This is what I saw:http://www.christianforums.com/t7474493/ Post#6

 

[prophecyistrue]

Wow. I know/knew This love for a split second before I felt the wrath. The purpose of this brief experience was to know or completely understand the wrath. The Wrath of God is not what we in this life understand it to be.(Hell fire and brimstone for the sake of hell fire and brimstone.)

It is the complete absents of all that you knew God's love to be. Without this understanding of God's complete love. The absents of God sounds better than the hell fire and brimstone that we think of when we think of Hell. When in fact if you know the love of God as you seem to, the you will know the everlasting torment that comes from the absents of the love God has to offer..

This "feeling" invokes the emotions of one being consumed. (like in a fire) but much much worse. The panic, the fear the raw emotions are unbearable, then after a few seconds... The reality of eternity sets in, and what is left of creation and leaves as the gates shut.

This is what I saw:http://www.christianforums.com/t7474493/ Post#6

Awesome testimony! God Is always there!

 

[drich0150]

Awesome testimony! God Is always there!

Had a friend point out your testimony. It is always good to see people who share similar experiences. If your path is going to be, anything like mine has been/is the only thing i can tell you is always be faithful to what you have been given, no matter what that means. In whom much is given much is expected.