Questions about iconography...

[nutroll]

Kyriaki is right. Being an iconographer does not make one a theologian. Ideally all iconographers should know enough to discern what is correct and what is not, and theology should be part of their training, but it is not always this way. And iconographers develop in their understanding of theology just as they develop in their artistic skills. When I first began painting icons, I did not realize that it really isn't appropriate to depict the Holy Spirit as a dove in icons other than the Baptism of Christ, so I mistakenly painted the Holy Spirit in the icon of the Annunciation to the Theotokos as a dove. I had seen this before and assumed it was correct, and others might see what I have done and incorrectly come to the same assumption.

The depiction of God the Father in icons has been around for a while, and while the Church has spoken out to condemn this practice, ignorance among iconographers who paint this image, and people who commission such images are commonplace still.

 

[Searching_for_Christ]

Thank you for the information

 

[Virgil the Roman]

We have an icon of St John the Baptist on my Church's iconostasis; he has "wings." I have noticed this in many different icons of him that I have seen. Why would he have wings; what is the significance or reason for him to have wings?

 

[ArmyMatt]

We have an icon of St John the Baptist on my Church's iconostasis; he has "wings." I have noticed this in many different icons of him that I have seen. Why would he have wings; what is the significance or reason for him to have wings?

wings means messenger, and that's what St John is, Christ's final Prophet and Messenger before Christ's ministry.

 

[Coralie]

I was taught that St. John was as close to an angel as any man except Christ, because he was a) God's messenger, which is the meaning of the Greek "angelos" from which we derive the English "angel", and b) because he lived a most unearthly life--he hardly ate or drank or slept, prayed and praised God continually, etc. Just like an angel.

Monks generally try to emulate the angels, which is why they fast on Mondays, the day of the week dedicated to remembering the angelic host, not just on Wednesdays and Fridays. (At least that's what my monk friend told me once.)

 

[-Kyriaki-]

It's also a bit of a pun, or so I was told. Angelos = messenger, but also Angel. St John was God's messenger to announce the coming of Christ, and if you use the word 'angelos' for that you get Angel and you can give him wings.

He's not always shown with wings, but often

 

[ma2000]

I've seen that there are some icons where the HolY Trinity is represented as an eye in a triangle. Is it canonical?

 

[Julina]

I've seen that there are some icons where the HolY Trinity is represented as an eye in a triangle. Is it canonical?

the All-Seeing Eye has roots in ancient pagan religions, like the Eye of Horus from Ancient Egyptian, and in other non-Christian cultures. Christians put it inside a triangle to represent the Trinity. Nowadays secret societies like the Illuminati and the Freemasons use it as their symbols, apparently still as a reference to God.

my answer, and this is just a guess, is that it probably still is a Christian symbol, but i don't think it would be canonical to use in iconography

 

[Michael G]

the All-Seeing Eye has roots in ancient pagan religions, like the Eye of Horus from Ancient Egyptian, and in other non-Christian cultures. Christians put it inside a triangle to represent the Trinity. Nowadays secret societies like the Illuminati and the Freemasons use it as their symbols, apparently still as a reference to God.

my answer, and this is just a guess, is that it probably still is a Christian symbol, but i don't think it would be canonical to use in iconography

It isn't.

 

[Michael G]

I've seen that there are some icons where the HolY Trinity is represented as an eye in a triangle. Is it canonical?

The only canonical way to depict the Trinity is the way Rublev did, as the 3 angels from the icon of the Hospitality of Abraham. That depiction is itself controversial as it really is a push on the norms and limits of iconography, but that is another discussion.

 

[Megaloskhemos]

Hi,

I had a random question about a few probably mundane details of the Last Supper icon. In 90% of these icons I see there are red curtains or cloth in the background. Here are two examples of what I mean:

The material is always red. Is this of significance?



I also found this one which has some... thing (maybe a fire?) in the background and no red cloth:

What is that? In addition, the fish plays a prominent role in this one. What is the significance? Who is the disciple in the foreground? Why is he in that golden 'blob' (for my lack of a better word)?

Any other details anyone would like to provide would be fine too

Thank you very much.

 

[angrylittlefisherman]

This may have been asked before but I am to impatient to search for it. In many Icons of the the most Holy Theotokos Christ is sitting on her lap holding a scroll. Can anyone tell me what that scroll is or what it represents?

 

[Julina]

Hi,

I had a random question about a few probably mundane details of the Last Supper icon. In 90% of these icons I see there are red curtains or cloth in the background. Here are two examples of what I mean:

The material is always red. Is this of significance?

i know that Jesus wears red and blue to signify his two natures; red for His humanity and blue for His divinity. the red might have something to do with that, or it since it's an icon of the last supper, it might symbolize the Passion of Christ.

I also found this one which has some... thing (maybe a fire?) in the background and no red cloth:

What is that? In addition, the fish plays a prominent role in this one. What is the significance? Who is the disciple in the foreground? Why is he in that golden 'blob' (for my lack of a better word)?

Any other details anyone would like to provide would be fine too

Thank you very much.

i was going to guess that the apostle to the right was Judas Iscariot with his pieces of gold, but now i do not know for sure, since i just remembered that he betrayed Jesus for silver and not gold.

 

[Dewi Sant]

Hi,

I had a random question about a few probably mundane details of the Last Supper icon. In 90% of these icons I see there are red curtains or cloth in the background. Here are two examples of what I mean:

The material is always red. Is this of significance?

Red curtains have a certain sense of Imperial Rome about them (at least to me). Thereby, they signify the sovereignty of Our Lord. This is however a personal interpretation.

 

[E.C.]

Hi,

I had a random question about a few probably mundane details of the Last Supper icon. In 90% of these icons I see there are red curtains or cloth in the background. Here are two examples of what I mean:

I'm not sure about the red, but I recall our priest mentioning in a homily that it was to show that the scene depicted is happening inside of a building as opposed to happening outside.

 

[Dewi Sant]

I'm not sure about the red, but I recall our priest mentioning in a homily that it was to show that the scene depicted is happening inside of a building as opposed to happening outside.

Yes, that would make sense.
There does seem to be a reluctance to include ceilings in icons.

 

[Searching_for_Christ]

I have seen plenty of icons that have this similar "style" what I could best describe as "jagged" haha...I was just wondering what kind of style this is? I like the use of colors and how things are..."written"

 

[Michael G]

Red curtains have a certain sense of Imperial Rome about them (at least to me). Thereby, they signify the sovereignty of Our Lord. This is however a personal interpretation.

That is your personal interpretation.

 

[Michael G]

I have seen plenty of icons that have this similar "style" what I could best describe as "jagged" haha...I was just wondering what kind of style this is? I like the use of colors and how things are..."written"

Painted. Don't get me started on how difficult that translation is and how misunderstood it is by the general Orthodox world.

As for the style, it looks like a rather generic Russian style.

 

[Megaloskhemos]

Thanks for the answer to my previous questions!

I have another: is there any historical depiction of the Transfiguration in the Celtic style?