Evolution is a Lie

[Nathan Poe]

Praise the LORD for that!

Just think what would happen if I changed my story every time, eh?

You'd be interesting?

 

[AV1611VET]

You'd be interesting?

Ya -- you'd have something honest to accuse me of.

 

[rjc34]

Ya -- you'd have something honest to accuse me of.

You mean other than butchering the bible and science into some pulsating ball of a strange worldview?



EDIT: Then bake at 350 for 45 minutes.

 

[Nathan Poe]

Ya -- you'd have something honest to accuse me of.

I wasn't aware anyone had accused you of being interesting.

 

[JustMeSee]

The average age of the ancient greek philosophers was 90.

The modern life expectancy in the west is 76 - 82.

I was not able to find anything to substantiate your claim that the average age at death was 90 years old for ancient Greek philosophers. Please share with us where you found such data.

 

[AV1611VET]

Please share with us where you found such data.

Does checking their tombstones come to mind?

 

[badtim]

Does checking their tombstones come to mind?

or perhaps the Ancient Greek Philosopher Registrar & Recorder's Office. i hear you can get a special, three death certificates for only 5 drachma!

 

[rjc34]

Does checking their tombstones come to mind?

They checked the records... they only lived to a maximum of about 60.

 

[Research1]

I was not able to find anything to substantiate your claim that the average age at death was 90 years old for ancient Greek philosophers. Please share with us where you found such data.

Ages of the pre-Socratic Greek philosophers

Thales (625 - 545's-30's BC) 78 - 90 years old

Pythagoreans -

Pythagoras (582 - 496 BC) 86 years old
Philolaus (470 - 385-380 BC) 85 - 90 years old
Archytas (428 - 347 BC) 81 years old

Eleatics -

Xenophanes (570 - 475-470 BC) 95 - 100 years old
Parmenides (540-510 - 440 BC) 70 - 100 years old
Zeno of Elea (500-490 - 430-420 BC) 60 - 80 years old
Milessus of Samos (500 - ??? BC) unknown

Atomists -

Leucippus (early 5th century BC) unknown
Democritus (460 - 370 BC) 90 years old

Sophists -

Protagoras (490 - 420 BC) 70 years old
Gorgias (487-485 - 380-376 BC) 105 -111 years old
Antiphon (480 - 411 BC) 69 years old
Prodicus (465 - 399-380 BC) 66 - 85 years old
Hippias (460 - ???) unknown
Thrasymachus (459 - 400 BC) 59 years old

Ages of the Classical Greek Philosophers

Socrates (470-469 - 399 BC) 70 - 71 years old
Euclid (450-435 - 380-365 BC) 55 - 85 years old
Antisthenes (445 - 365 BC) 80 years old
Aristippus (436 - 356 BC) 80 years old
Plato (428 - 347 BC) 81 years old
Diogenes (412 - 323 BC) 89 years old
Xenocrates (396 - 314 BC) 82 years old
Aristotle (384 - 322 BC) 62 years old
Stilpo (360 - 280 BC) 80 years old
Theophastrus (371 - 287) 84 years old

Ages of Hellenistic philosophers

Pyrrho (360 - 270 BC) 90 years old
Epicirus (341 - 270 BC) 71 years old
Zeno (334 - 262 BC) 71 years old
Cleanthes (330 - 230 BC) 100 years old
Timon (320 - 230 BC) 90 years old
Arcesilaus (316 - 240-232 BC) 76 - 84 years old
Archimedes (287 - 212 BC) 75 years old
Carneades (214 - 128 BC) 86 years old
Posidonius (135 - 51 BC) 84 years old
Philo (30-20 BC - 45-50 AD) 65 - 80 years old

The average is 85 - 90 years.

Average for west in modern times is 76, to low eighties.

No evolution here folks...

 

[badtim]

Ages of the pre-Socratic Greek philosophers

Thales (625 - 545's-30's BC) 78 - 90 years old

Pythagoreans -

Pythagoras (582 - 496 BC) 86 years old
Philolaus (470 - 385-380 BC) 85 - 90 years old
Archytas (428 - 347 BC) 81 years old

Eleatics -

Xenophanes (570 - 475-470 BC) 95 - 100 years old
Parmenides (540-510 - 440 BC) 70 - 100 years old
Zeno of Elea (500-490 - 430-420 BC) 60 - 80 years old
Milessus of Samos (500 - ??? BC) unknown

Atomists -

Leucippus (early 5th century BC) unknown
Democritus (460 - 370 BC) 90 years old

Sophists -

Protagoras (490 - 420 BC) 70 years old
Gorgias (487-485 - 380-376 BC) 105 -111 years old
Antiphon (480 - 411 BC) 69 years old
Prodicus (465 - 399-380 BC) 66 - 85 years old
Hippias (460 - ???) unknown
Thrasymachus (459 - 400 BC) 59 years old

Ages of the Classical Greek Philosophers

Socrates (470-469 - 399 BC) 70 - 71 years old
Euclid (450-435 - 380-365 BC) 55 - 85 years old
Antisthenes (445 - 365 BC) 80 years old
Aristippus (436 - 356 BC) 80 years old
Plato (428 - 347 BC) 81 years old
Diogenes (412 - 323 BC) 89 years old
Xenocrates (396 - 314 BC) 82 years old
Aristotle (384 - 322 BC) 62 years old
Stilpo (360 - 280 BC) 80 years old
Theophastrus (371 - 287) 84 years old

Ages of Hellenistic philosophers

Pyrrho (360 - 270 BC) 90 years old
Epicirus (341 - 270 BC) 71 years old
Zeno (334 - 262 BC) 71 years old
Cleanthes (330 - 230 BC) 100 years old
Timon (320 - 230 BC) 90 years old
Arcesilaus (316 - 240-232 BC) 76 - 84 years old
Archimedes (287 - 212 BC) 75 years old
Carneades (214 - 128 BC) 86 years old
Posidonius (135 - 51 BC) 84 years old
Philo (30-20 BC - 45-50 AD) 65 - 80 years old

The average is 85 - 90 years.

Average for west in modern times is 76, to low eighties.

No evolution here folks...

um, you forgot a little thing in dates like that, it's the prefix "ca" which means "circa" meaning "around". next time somebody cribs dates from wikipedia, make sure they copied all of it.

 

[Hespera]

Ages of the pre-Socratic Greek philosophers

Thales (625 - 545's-30's BC) 78 - 90 years old

Pythagoreans -

Pythagoras (582 - 496 BC) 86 years old
Philolaus (470 - 385-380 BC) 85 - 90 years old
Archytas (428 - 347 BC) 81 years old

Eleatics -

Xenophanes (570 - 475-470 BC) 95 - 100 years old
Parmenides (540-510 - 440 BC) 70 - 100 years old
Zeno of Elea (500-490 - 430-420 BC) 60 - 80 years old
Milessus of Samos (500 - ??? BC) unknown

Atomists -

Leucippus (early 5th century BC) unknown
Democritus (460 - 370 BC) 90 years old

Sophists -

Protagoras (490 - 420 BC) 70 years old
Gorgias (487-485 - 380-376 BC) 105 -111 years old
Antiphon (480 - 411 BC) 69 years old
Prodicus (465 - 399-380 BC) 66 - 85 years old
Hippias (460 - ???) unknown
Thrasymachus (459 - 400 BC) 59 years old

Ages of the Classical Greek Philosophers

Socrates (470-469 - 399 BC) 70 - 71 years old
Euclid (450-435 - 380-365 BC) 55 - 85 years old
Antisthenes (445 - 365 BC) 80 years old
Aristippus (436 - 356 BC) 80 years old
Plato (428 - 347 BC) 81 years old
Diogenes (412 - 323 BC) 89 years old
Xenocrates (396 - 314 BC) 82 years old
Aristotle (384 - 322 BC) 62 years old
Stilpo (360 - 280 BC) 80 years old
Theophastrus (371 - 287) 84 years old

Ages of Hellenistic philosophers

Pyrrho (360 - 270 BC) 90 years old
Epicirus (341 - 270 BC) 71 years old
Zeno (334 - 262 BC) 71 years old
Cleanthes (330 - 230 BC) 100 years old
Timon (320 - 230 BC) 90 years old
Arcesilaus (316 - 240-232 BC) 76 - 84 years old
Archimedes (287 - 212 BC) 75 years old
Carneades (214 - 128 BC) 86 years old
Posidonius (135 - 51 BC) 84 years old
Philo (30-20 BC - 45-50 AD) 65 - 80 years old

The average is 85 - 90 years.

Average for west in modern times is 76, to low eighties.

No evolution here folks...

and nobody ever said there was any evolution there, so you are as usual putting up strawmen and demonstrating nothing except about yourself.

 

[JustMeSee]

Ages of the pre-Socratic Greek philosophers

Thales (625 - 545's-30's BC) 78 - 90 years old

Pythagoreans -

Pythagoras (582 - 496 BC) 86 years old
Philolaus (470 - 385-380 BC) 85 - 90 years old
Archytas (428 - 347 BC) 81 years old

Eleatics -

Xenophanes (570 - 475-470 BC) 95 - 100 years old
Parmenides (540-510 - 440 BC) 70 - 100 years old
Zeno of Elea (500-490 - 430-420 BC) 60 - 80 years old
Milessus of Samos (500 - ??? BC) unknown

Atomists -

Leucippus (early 5th century BC) unknown
Democritus (460 - 370 BC) 90 years old

Sophists -

Protagoras (490 - 420 BC) 70 years old
Gorgias (487-485 - 380-376 BC) 105 -111 years old
Antiphon (480 - 411 BC) 69 years old
Prodicus (465 - 399-380 BC) 66 - 85 years old
Hippias (460 - ???) unknown
Thrasymachus (459 - 400 BC) 59 years old

Ages of the Classical Greek Philosophers

Socrates (470-469 - 399 BC) 70 - 71 years old
Euclid (450-435 - 380-365 BC) 55 - 85 years old
Antisthenes (445 - 365 BC) 80 years old
Aristippus (436 - 356 BC) 80 years old
Plato (428 - 347 BC) 81 years old
Diogenes (412 - 323 BC) 89 years old
Xenocrates (396 - 314 BC) 82 years old
Aristotle (384 - 322 BC) 62 years old
Stilpo (360 - 280 BC) 80 years old
Theophastrus (371 - 287) 84 years old

Ages of Hellenistic philosophers

Pyrrho (360 - 270 BC) 90 years old
Epicirus (341 - 270 BC) 71 years old
Zeno (334 - 262 BC) 71 years old
Cleanthes (330 - 230 BC) 100 years old
Timon (320 - 230 BC) 90 years old
Arcesilaus (316 - 240-232 BC) 76 - 84 years old
Archimedes (287 - 212 BC) 75 years old
Carneades (214 - 128 BC) 86 years old
Posidonius (135 - 51 BC) 84 years old
Philo (30-20 BC - 45-50 AD) 65 - 80 years old

The average is 85 - 90 years.

Average for west in modern times is 76, to low eighties.

No evolution here folks...

From the ages that you presented, my calculations were between 78.3 and 82.9, not even close to what you stated. It is still impressive for the time. I wonder how their longevity compared to the rest of their societies.

I may have made some typographical errors.
Thales (625 - 545's-30's BC) 78 - 90 years old
78
90
Pythagoras (582 - 496 BC) 86 years old
86
86
Philolaus (470 - 385-380 BC) 85 - 90 years old
85
90
Archytas (428 - 347 BC) 81 years old
81
81
Xenophanes (570 - 475-470 BC) 95 - 100 years old
95
100
Parmenides (540-510 - 440 BC) 70 - 100 years old
70
100
Zeno of Elea (500-490 - 430-420 BC) 60 - 80 years old
60
80
Democritus (460 - 370 BC) 90 years old
90
90
Protagoras (490 - 420 BC) 70 years old
70
70
Gorgias (487-485 - 380-376 BC) 105 -111 years old
105
111
Antiphon (480 - 411 BC) 69 years old
69
69
Prodicus (465 - 399-380 BC) 66 - 85 years old
66
85
Thrasymachus (459 - 400 BC) 59 years old
59
59
Socrates (470-469 - 399 BC) 70 - 71 years old
70
71
Euclid (450-435 - 380-365 BC) 55 - 85 years old
55
85
Antisthenes (445 - 365 BC) 80 years old
80
80
Aristippus (436 - 356 BC) 80 years old
80
80
Plato (428 - 347 BC) 81 years old
81
81
Diogenes (412 - 323 BC) 89 years old
89
89
Xenocrates (396 - 314 BC) 82 years old
82
82
Aristotle (384 - 322 BC) 62 years old
62
62
Stilpo (360 - 280 BC) 80 years old
80
80
Theophastrus (371 - 287) 84 years old
84
84
Pyrrho (360 - 270 BC) 90 years old
90
90
Epicirus (341 - 270 BC) 71 years old
71
71
Zeno (334 - 262 BC) 71 years old
71
71
Cleanthes (330 - 230 BC) 100 years old
100
100
Timon (320 - 230 BC) 90 years old
90
90
Arcesilaus (316 - 240-232 BC) 76 - 84 years old
76
84
Archimedes (287 - 212 BC) 75 years old
75
75
Carneades (214 - 128 BC) 86 years old
86
86
Posidonius (135 - 51 BC) 84 years old
84
84
Philo (30-20 BC - 45-50 AD) 65 - 80 years old
65
80




78.33333
82.90909

 

[gaara4158]

The average age of the ancient greek philosophers was 90.

The modern life expectancy in the west is 76 - 82.

You're comparing a very specific, elite sample of ancient Greeks to the entire modern West.

 

[dad]

No, it is not a baseless lie. There is evidence for all of this.

You said that 'God equipped us creatures to be able to adapt and evolve.' I'm not debating whether evolution was started by God or not, simply that evolution itself exists.

Evolution does exist I believe. But it cannot be shown to have started anywhere other than with the kinds.

 

[rjc34]

Evolution does exist I believe. But it cannot be shown to have started anywhere other than with the kinds.

And what exactly is a 'kind' if you'd be so kind as to define it.

(I've never got a consistent or even coherent answer when I ask this)

 

[rjc34]

The average is 85 - 90 years.

Average for west in modern times is 76, to low eighties.

No evolution here folks...

Well other than the fact you made up the math (which shows ~80 average) you've also got to compare it to a similar group of individuals of modern times. I think upper-class thinkers who don't smoke, drink very little and are known to have been good thinkers would be a fair comparison.

While the density of centenarians per capita was much less in ancient times than today, the data suggest that reaching the age of 100 was not unheard of. However, ancient demographics are biased in favor of wealthy or powerful individuals rather than the ordinary person. Grmek and Gourevitch speculate that during the Classical Greek Period, anyone who made it past the age of five years — surviving all the common childhood illness of that day — had a reasonable chance of living to a ripe old age. Life expectancy at 400 B.C. was estimated to be around 30 years of age. One demographer of ancient civilizations reported that Greek men lived to 45 years (based on a sample size of 91), while women lived to 36.2 years (based on a sample size of 55). Curiously, the gender statistics are inverted compared to today, since child-birth was a much more traumatic experience at that time than now, and it certainly skewed female statistics downward. It was common for average citizens to take great care in their hygiene (sanitation), Mediterranean diet (fish, figs, olive oil, wine, etc.), and exercise program (sports/gymnasium), although there was much more male trauma per capita than today, due to military service being virtually universal for citizens.

So while the average age at the time was about 30, various factors made it so the greeks had an average age of about 45. Now that is a number much more comparable to todays societies.

 

[dad]

And what exactly is a 'kind' if you'd be so kind as to define it.

(I've never got a consistent or even coherent answer when I ask this)

No one really knows. But I would think it is pretty safe to say a lion and a wolf are kinds. Oh, and certainly man.

 

[sandwiches]

No one really knows. But I would think it is pretty safe to say a lion and a wolf are kinds. Oh, and certainly man.

Why is pretty safe to assume that?

 

[rjc34]

No one really knows.

Oh, so it's not really defined so you creationists can pretty much set it to whatever supports the crazy idea du jour?

You can't define what exactly a 'kind' is, yet it's still used in arguments. At least we have an honest definition for whatever we're arguing about

But I would think it is pretty safe to say a lion and a wolf are kinds. Oh, and certainly man.

So a wolf is a kind, but it can interbreed with dingos, dogs, coyotes, and golden jackals, and produce fertile offspring? What 'kind' are the offspring?

 

[MoonLancer]

so cats aren't a kind?