Jude says certain angels committed fornication...

[SummaScriptura]

Jude 1:6-7, 6"And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day, 7 just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.” (NASB)

Take a look at how most Bibles translate Jude 1:7. After speaking of the angels who sinned in verse 6, Jude connects and transitions to the sin of the Sodomites. The words Jude uses in his connection and transition are four in the Greek, "τὸν ὅμοιον τρόπον τούτοις". In my ESV, these four words are rendered as "likewise", as in the Sodomites were just as the angels who sinned. "Likewise" downplays what Jude says. What Jude says is better translated as “in the same way as these”, as in "the same way as these angels the Sodomites indulged in sexual immorality".

The NASB has it right as they actually translate each Greek word; "τὸν ὅμοιον τρόπον τούτοις" reads as, "in the same way as these".

From the Pulpit Commentary:

“The sin charged against these cities is stated in express terms to have been the same in kind with that of the angels- the indulgence of passion contrary to nature. They are described as having in like manner with these (that is, surely, in like manner with these angels just referred to; not, as some strangely imagine, with these men who corrupt the Church) given themselves over to fornication, and gone after strange flesh.”

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

7 just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.” (NASB)

Take a look at how most Bibles translate Jude 1:7. The words Jude uses in his connection and transition are four in the Greek, "τὸν ὅμοιον τρόπον τούτοις". In my ESV, these four words are rendered as "likewise", as in the Sodomites were just as the angels who sinned. "Likewise" downplays what Jude says. What Jude says is better translated as “in the same way as these”, as in "the same way as these angels the Sodomites indulged in sexual immorality".

The NASB has it right as they actually translate each Greek word; "τὸν ὅμοιον τρόπον τούτοις" reads as, "in the same way as these".

Sounds good to me

Search for 'Genesis 1:1' in the version

Rotherham) Jude 1:7 As, Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them, having in like manner to these given themselves over to fornication, and gone away after other kind of flesh, lie exposed as an example, a penalty of age-abiding fire, undergoing.

Jude 1:7 wV <5613> {AS} sodoma <4670> {SODOM} kai <2532> {AND} gomorra <1116> {GOMORRAH,} kai <2532> {AND} ai <3588> {THE} peri <4012> {ABOUT} autaV <846> {THEM} poleiV <4172> {CITIES,} ton <3588> {THE} omoion <3664> {LIKE AS} toutoiV <5125> {TO THESE} tropon <5158> {MANNER} ekinappropriate contenteusasai <1608> (5660) {OUT PROSTITUTING} kai <2532> {AND} apelqousai <565> (5631) {COMING AWAY} opisw <3694> {AFTER} sarkoV <4561> {FLESH} eteraV <2087> {OTHER} prokeintai <4295> (5736) {ARE SETTING FORTH} deigma <1164> {AN EXAMPLE,} puroV <4442> {OF FIRE} aiwniou <166> {AGE ABIDING} dikhn <1349> {JUSTICE} upecousai <5254> (5723) {UNDERGOING.}

 

[SummaScriptura]

From the New American Commentary, “The words “in the same manner as these” (ton homoion tropon toutois)—the NIV translates the comparison by placing it at the beginning of the verse, “In a similar way”—establish a parallel between the sexual immorality of the angels and the sexual immorality of Sodom.”

 

[Faith.Man]

Jude 1:6-7, 6"And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day, 7 just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.” (NASB)

Take a look at how most Bibles translate Jude 1:7. After speaking of the angels who sinned in verse 6, Jude connects and transitions to the sin of the Sodomites. The words Jude uses in his connection and transition are four in the Greek, "&#964;&#8056;&#957; &#8005;&#956;&#959;&#953;&#959;&#957; &#964;&#961;&#972;&#960;&#959;&#957; &#964;&#959;&#973;&#964;&#959;&#953;&#962;". In my ESV, these four words are rendered as "likewise", as in the Sodomites were just as the angels who sinned. "Likewise" downplays what Jude says. What Jude says is better translated as “in the same way as these”, as in "the same way as these angels the Sodomites indulged in sexual immorality".

The NASB has it right as they actually translate each Greek word; "&#964;&#8056;&#957; &#8005;&#956;&#959;&#953;&#959;&#957; &#964;&#961;&#972;&#960;&#959;&#957; &#964;&#959;&#973;&#964;&#959;&#953;&#962;" reads as, "in the same way as these".

From the Pulpit Commentary:

“The sin charged against these cities is stated in express terms to have been the same in kind with that of the angels- the indulgence of passion contrary to nature. They are described as having in like manner with these (that is, surely, in like manner with these angels just referred to; not, as some strangely imagine, with these men who corrupt the Church) given themselves over to fornication, and gone after strange flesh.”

If anyone's interested, the Pulpit Commentary is available for download from the e-Sword User's Group.

 

[winslow]

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[Rhamiel]

genesis chapter 6 talks of the Nephilim the children of the sons of heaven and the daughters of earth
some people think it means the sons of seth and the daughters of cain
but i think it means the children of angels and humans

 

[Jig]

In verse seven the clause "in the same way as these" is reffering to Sodom and Gammorah and cities around them. Another words the cities around Sodom and Gammorah were guilty of going after strange flesh in the same manner (of Sodom and Gammorah). It is not linking the particular sins of Sodom and Gammorah with that of the angels.

I can certainly see how you can read the text in this way. Some English translations prefer a lexical interpretation that seems to support your claim while others do not. However, Jewish tradition supports that Jude thought these angels committed unnatural sexual sins.

Verse 6-7: Jewish tradition linked together the sin of angels in Gen 6:1&#8211;4, the judgment of Sodom and Gomorrah, and the punishment of the wilderness generation. We can be almost certain that Jude referred here to the sin of the angels in Gen 6:1&#8211;4. The sin the angels committed, according to the Jewish tradition, was sexual intercourse with the daughters of men. Apparently Jude also understood Gen 6:1&#8211;4 in the same way. Three reasons support such a conclusion. First, Jewish tradition consistently understood Gen 6:1&#8211;4 in this way (1 En. 6&#8211;19; 21; 86&#8211;88; 106:13&#8211;17; Jub. 4:15, 22; 5:1; CD 2:17&#8211;19; 1QapGen 2:1; T. Reu. 5:6&#8211;7; T. Naph. 3:5; 2 Bar. 56:10&#8211;14; cf. Josephus, Ant. 1.73). Second, we know from vv. 14&#8211;15 that Jude was influenced by 1 Enoch, and 1 Enoch goes into great detail about the sin and punishment of these angels. Jude almost certainly would need to explain that he departed from the customary Jewish view of Gen 6:1&#8211;4 if he disagreed with Jewish tradition. The brevity of the verse supports the idea that he concurred with Jewish tradition. Third, the text forges a parallel between the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah and the angels (&#8220;In a similar way,&#8221; v. 7; h&#333;s and ton homoion tropon toutois). The implication is that sexual sin was prominent in both instances.

Thomas R. Schreiner, 1, 2 Peter, Jude, The New American Commentary (Nashville: Broadman & Holman Publishers, 2007). 447-48.

 

[Noxot]

since angels have free will, they can choose good or evil.
so then angels can fall. there are a few times that the bible appears to point this out. it seems that angels can fall at any time since they have free will all the time.

but how could they mate with women? well although angels are immaterial, they have been known to sometimes materialize, if you study the bible there are examples of angels eating food and another example would be certain men wanting to rape certain angels, everyone knows you cannot physically rape an immaterial object.

of course angels also appear to men in other ways, such as in visions.

 

[papaJP]

We must remember that 1/3 of the angels followed satan and they did evil things.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

We must remember that 1/3 of the angels followed satan and they did evil things.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7405089-4/#post53043894
What the sign?

Reve 12:3 and was viewed another Sign in the heaven and behold! a dragon great fiery having heads seven and horns ten and upon the heads of him seven diadems
4 and the tail of him dragging the third of the stars of the heaven and casts them into the land. And the Dragon has stood in view of the woman, of the one being about to be bringing forth, that whenever she may be bringing forth the offspring of her he may be devouring.

Rotherham) Ezekiel 29:3 Speak, and thou shalt say-- Thus, saith My Lord Yahweh
Behold me! against thee O Pharaoh king of Egypt, the great Dragon/08577 tanniyn that lieth along in the midst of his rivers:
Who saith-- My river is, mine own, Since I myself made it me!

 

[winslow]

.

 

[Jig]

Understanding scripture according to tradition can be a slippery slope. Somewhere you will have to deviate from it less you reject the Lord as the Jews did.

It was proper for me to use Jewish tradition to gain insight into the historical context of this epistle. As mentioned above by the commentator: Jude almost certainly would need to explain that he departed from the customary Jewish view of Gen 6:1&#8211;4 if he disagreed with Jewish tradition. The brevity of the verse supports the idea that he concurred with [this] Jewish tradition.

Yes, one must eventually deviate from Jewish tradition or eventually reject Jesus. Surely, Jude rejected many Jewish traditions. However, this particular tradition he accepted as true. This is why I accept it as true.

The connection I see between the Angels and the cities is that they are both being held into judgement. Sodom and Gammorah were judged and destroyed in the time of Lot. The other cities mentioned that were practicing the sins of Sodom and Gammorah will not go unpunished, the inhabitants will receive their punishment in the day of judgement as will the angels being held unto judgement.

The connection you see and the connection Jude and the Jews saw are different in some areas. I'll assume they hold a fuller understanding of this then you do.

 

[SummaScriptura]

Jude gives us Apostolic tradition. I don't think I can go far wrong with Apostolic tradition.

By the way, the grammar is such that "in the same way as these" points to the sin held in common between the two groups. The sin is the thing that both the angels and the Sodomites, ie, "the Sodomites, in the same way as these angels, indulged in gross immmorality".

 

[SummaScriptura]

I'm resurrecting this for Jase and JPark...

 

[SummaScriptura]

I agree. It is very difficult to avoid the conclusion that Jude is referring to a non-Sethite exegesis of Gen. 6:1-4.

 

[Pythons]

There was an "Ancient Alien" episode where this was discussed.

Ancient Aliens - Angels and Aliens s02e07 part 1 - YouTube

 

[razeontherock]

Well, spirutal beings are ET's but not in the way that series generally depicts

 

[BobRyan]

Jude gives us Apostolic tradition. I don't think I can go far wrong with Apostolic tradition.

By the way, the grammar is such that "in the same way as these" points to the sin held in common between the two groups. The sin is the thing that both the angels and the Sodomites, ie, "the Sodomites, in the same way as these angels, indulged in gross immmorality".

The "two groups" are Sodom and Gomorrah (the first group) and "the cities around them" the second group.

Matt 22 - Christ said angels do not have the design/function of forming families - they don't marry each other -- let alone other species.

QUOTE="BobRyan, post: 68249224, member: 235244"]While Enoch would be a great source - the book of Enoch is of very very recent origin as compared to "Enoch the 7th from Adam". Thus even the Jews do not include that pseudepigraphal book in their Canon. I

It does not even make the cut for the apocrypha by Jerome's standard.

There is no "Angels commit fornication" or "Angels marry people" in all of scripture.



Not in the actual Bible.

In Jude 1 the subject is contemporaries with Jude - apostates, corrupt individuals that had inserted themselves into the church. James compares them to the unfaithful Israel who died in the desert, to the angels which fell in heaven from the pristine estate, to the men of Sodom and Gomorrha who gave themselves over to fornication and strange flesh -- and the cities around them did the same thing as did Sodom and Gomorrha.

Jude 1

3. ...it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.

6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.[/QUOTE]

 

[BobRyan]

So the giants before the flood had nothing to do with marrying angels. And when Noah stepped off the boat - he brought himself with him... he was Nephilim. Hence giants before AND after the flood.

quote]
Patriarchs and Prophets:
In the days of Noah a double curse was resting upon the earth in consequence of Adam's transgression and of the murder committed by Cain. Yet this had not greatly changed the face of nature. There were evident tokens of decay, but the earth was still rich and beautiful in the gifts of God's providence. The hills were crowned with majestic trees supporting the fruit-laden branches of the vine. The vast, gardenlike plains were clothed with verdure, and sweet with the fragrance of a thousand flowers. The fruits of the earth were in great variety, and almost without limit. The trees far surpassed in size, beauty, and perfect proportion any now to be found; their wood was of fine grain and hard substance, closely resembling stone, and hardly less enduring. Gold, silver, and precious stones existed in abundance.

The human race yet retained much of its early vigor. But a few generations had passed since Adam had access to the tree which was to prolong life; and man's existence was still measured by centuries. Had that long-lived people, with their rare powers to plan and execute, devoted themselves to the service of God, they would have made their Creator's name a praise in the earth, and would have answered the purpose for which He gave them life. But they failed to do this. There were many giants, men of great stature and strength, renowned for wisdom, skillful in devising the most cunning and wonderful works; but their guilt in giving loose rein to iniquity was in proportion to their skill and mental ability.

God bestowed upon these antediluvians many and rich gifts; but they used His bounties to glorify themselves, and turned them into a curse by fixing their affections upon the gifts instead of the Giver. They employed the gold and silver, the precious stones and the choice wood, in the construction of habitations for themselves, and endeavored to excel one another in beautifying their dwellings with the most skillful workmanship. They

Page 91
sought only to gratify the desires of their own proud hearts, and reveled in scenes of pleasure and wickedness. Not desiring to retain God in their knowledge, they soon came to deny His existence. They adored nature in place of the God of nature. They glorified human genius, worshiped the works of their own hands, and taught their children to bow down to graven images.

http://www.whiteestate.org/books/pp/pp7.html[/quote]

 

[yeshuasavedme]

I agree. It is very difficult to avoid the conclusion that Jude is referring to a non-Sethite exegesis of Gen. 6:1-4.

Also, Genesis 6 Hebrew original states that sons of God /ben Elohym laqach/took/married bath Adam/daughters of Adam.
Daughters of Adam married sons of God/ben Elohym... and giants were born