Love and Self control

[k4c]

If the Bible is the basis of our understanding on this subject than let's consider the actual words of Romans 7 which tell us that we are to die to the law so that we may be joined with another. The context clarifies that the law to which we are to die includes the command "thou shalt not covet." These words aren't in conflict with the concept that the law exposes sin. Rather, they provide more information regarding the relationship between God (the One to whom we are joined) and the law (the entity to whom we die). Hebrews refers to this relationship as "the reality" (God) and "the shadow" (the law).

. . . because of man's ongoing inability to keep the law.

Which includes every person. The law brings death to all persons because all sin.

When we come to Christ, we continue to sin. Therefore the law continues to bring death. It is the Spirit, not law, that brings life.

The ministry that brings death is the letters engraved on stones.

When we are married to Christ we can no longer be married to the law. If we are married to the law, we commit spiritual adultery.

How is this a change?

If we appeal to the Bible as the basis of our position, then we should also point out that the concept of "the spirit of the law" is not found in the Bible. It is a man-made concept.

BFA

Let me ask you one simple question.

Is it a sin to have sex outside of marriage?

 

[Adventtruth]

The context of Romans 7 is how the law exposes sin and the sin nature, in other words, the old man. When Paul said he died he was referring to the old man. He goes on to say that the law, which was suppose to bring life, ended up bringing death because of sin. The law is holy and good but it has a condeming affect on sinful man. When we come to Christ the condeming power of the law is done away with, Romans 8 speaks all about this. We become dead to that aspect of the law but remember, the law is good, holy and right so the whole law will not be done away with because we know it is still wrong to commit adultery, lie, murder and so on.

The Bible teaches of an inward man and an outward man. The outward man has to do with the old man, whether religious or not and the lust of the flesh. It is this that the law condemns. It is this aspect of us that dies to the condeming power of the law. This is called the ministery of death. This is what it was suppose to do. But remember, that same law was suppose to bring life and will once the old man is put to death.

When we're married to Christ our relationship to the law changes, not the law itself. We become set free because we no longer view the law as a means to obtain righeousness and the law no longer brings death because Jesus takes away our sin.

Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth? Rom 7:1

I think you've missed a few very important points here of what Paul is communicating to the readers. Read above what Paul actually said.

1) Paul is speaking of the whole man.
2)That man has to die to escape the dominion of the law.

Your written words say "

we become dead to that aspect of the law

May I say to you, that idea is no where to be found in this chapter. Paul says dominion over a man as long as he lives.....and then says dead to that same law. Its not a aspect of the law to where we died to, but the whole law that we died to.

I hope you are not saying that I am one to teach the law is done away with, I don't hold to that idea, nor does the bible teach such and idea. The law is still in effect for fallen man who has not repented of sin. It stands as a witness against them. This is why the law is holy just and good. But for those who are in Christ, you give the work of the Holy Spirit to the law. The Spirit while convincing the world of sin, righteousness and judgment, leads those who have died with Christ into truth. He receives from Chirst and shows them to us. This is not the work of the law but of the Spirit who does not speak of Himself but of Christ.(John 16)

Paul on one hand speaks of being dead to the law in Romans 7:4 and in Romans 8:7 he speaks of the Christian being under subjection to the law. To look to the greek for the word subjection as found here (8:7) carries all the weight of being under the laws dominion as to make Paul contradict himself. Paul perhaps could have used a better word to make his point known here, but it's the context that defines the thrust of what Paul was driving at here. Hostile man can not be in agreement with the law of God, having not repented of sin, but Christian men are in agreement with it as repentant sinners, so we are in this way subjective to it being in agreement, but at the same time it has nothing for us being dead to it. The law stands as holy, righteous, and good, and chrisians up hold and agree with all that the law stands for, but are dead to it power. For the Christian the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. http://www.christianforums.com/#_ftn1 http://www.christianforums.com/#_ftnref1 Ro 8:2




AT

 

[k4c]

Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth? Rom 7:1

I think you've missed a few very important points here of what Paul is communicating to the readers. Read above what Paul actually said.

1) Paul is speaking of the whole man.
2)That man has to die to escape the dominion of the law.

Your written words say " May I say to you, that idea is no where to be found in this chapter. Paul says dominion over a man as long as he lives.....and then says dead to that same law. Its not a aspect of the law to where we died to, but the whole law that we died to.

I hope you are not saying that I am one to teach the law is done away with, I don't hold to that idea, nor does the bible teach such and idea. The law is still in effect for fallen man who has not repented of sin. It stands as a witness against them. This is why the law is holy just and good. But for those who are in Christ, you give the work of the Holy Spirit to the law. The Spirit while convincing the world of sin, righteousness and judgment, leads those who have died with Christ into truth. He receives from Chirst and shows them to us. This is not the work of the law but of the Spirit who does not speak of Himself but of Christ.(John 16)

Paul on one hand speaks of being dead to the law in Romans 7:4 and in Romans 8:7 he speaks of the Christian being under subjection to the law. To look to the greek for the word subjection as found here (8:7) carries all the weight of being under the laws dominion as to make Paul contradict himself. Paul perhaps could have used a better word to make his point known here, but it's the context that defines the thrust of what Paul was driving at here. Hostile man can not be in agreement with the law of God, having not repented of sin, but Christian men are in agreement with it as repentant sinners, so we are in this way subjective to it being in agreement, but at the same time it has nothing for us being dead to it. The law stands as holy, righteous, and good, and chrisians up hold and agree with all that the law stands for, but are dead to it power. For the Christian the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. Ro 8:2

AT

Let me ask you one question.

Is it a sin to have sex outside of marriage?

 

[StormyOne]

Let me ask you one question.

Is it a sin to have sex outside of marriage?

only if you want it to be...

 

[Byfaithalone1]

Let me ask you one simple question.

Is it a sin to have sex outside of marriage?

I have been convicted that it is to my benefit and to the benefit of my family that I should remain faithful to my wife. If I were to be unfaithful, I would sin.

I believe that SDAism teaches that there will be no marriage in Heaven. What is the net impact of this teaching on the 7th commandment? Is the 7th commandment eternal?

Now, let's try a related question:

Q: Is it always a sin to kill?
​

BFA

 

[Adventtruth]

Let me ask you one question.

Is it a sin to have sex outside of marriage?

Have you not read what I wrote?

According to your ten commandments I can have sex as much as I want with a girl in my mind and not be convicted. So you see, your ten commandments cant read my heart at all. And being a Christian who is dead to the law, it can't condemn me if I do have real physical sex outside of my marriage.

So, seeing you have not read what I wrote, I'll show you a portion of what I wrote, in hopes that you will go back and read it.

But for those who are in Christ, you give the work of the Holy Spirit to the law. The Spirit while convincing the world of sin, righteousness and judgment, leads those who have died with Christ into truth. He receives from Chirst and shows them to us. This is not the work of the law but of the Spirit who does not speak of Himself but of Christ.(John 16)

Now look at what Christ has said on the sermon on the mount

(Mat 5:27) "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall not commit adultery.'

(Mat 5:28) But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

And look at what He tells the disciples in John 16.

(Joh 16:13) Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Can the law convict of adultery in the heart? Can Christ convict of adultery in the heart?

Look at what Paul said of the law.

(Rom 8:3) For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh,

The law can't convict of sinful desires. Christ through the Holy Spirit will convict of sinful desires. Christ is speaking today if we will take the time and listen.

AT

 

[k4c]

The law can't convict of sinful desires. Christ through the Holy Spirit will convict of sinful desires. Christ is speaking today if we will take the time and listen.
AT

They can once they are written on the heart.

 

[Adventtruth]

They can once they are written on the heart.

Not if you say the 1-10 as they stand in Exodus. Because the 10 say nothing about having sex in ones mind. Why do you want to give to the law what Christ is doing through the Spirit? Do you always elevate the law above the Spirit who is God? I've given you the text...you've read the text, but you continue to deny the text that say the Spirit leads into all truth and speaks to us what Christ says. When I was Adventist, I did some of the same things you are doing now. But the time came when I could no longer fight the Spirit. I hope that time comes for you as well.


AT

 

[k4c]

Not if you say the 1-10 as they stand in Exodus. Because the 10 say nothing about having sex in ones mind. Why do you want to give to the law what Christ is doing through the Spirit? Do you always elevate the law above the Spirit who is God? I've given you the text...you've read the text, but you continue to deny the text that say the Spirit leads into all truth and speaks to us what Christ says. When I was Adventist, I did some of the same things you are doing now. But the time came when I could no longer fight the Spirit. I hope that time comes for you as well.

AT

The authority for sex in the mind being sinful is rooted in the law, take away the law and sex in the mind is not a sin.

The Bible tells us that Jesus would come to magnify the law and make it honorable.

 

[Joe67]

k4c,

Have you considered what God said to Abimelech, the Amorite leader, in a dream, concerning Sarai? Genesis 20.

Consider also the Egyptian ruler in Genesis 12:17-19?

The fear of God was upon these people. This is knowledge.

Joe

 

[freeindeed2]

I already answered you but probably not in the way you wanted.

Let's look at the key difference between the two covenans.

2 Cor. "Now if the ministry of death, carved in letters on stone, came with such glory that the Israelites could not gaze at Moses' face because of its glory, which was being brought to an end, will not the ministry of the Spirit have even more glory? For if there was glory in the ministry of condemnation, the ministry righteousness must far exceed it in glory.

Letters on stone = outward influencing the actions of man through fear of punishment.

The old covenant had fear as it's motivator.

The new covevant has love as it's motivator.

You have a pattern of not dealing with the whole passages of scripture presented, so I won't waste your time posting them again.

Fear was NEVER the 'motivator' for ANY of the covenants God has made. God IS love, not fear.

The old covenant stone words dealt with a stone heart in that it brought death and condemnation.

Scripture says the LETTERS brought death and condemnation, not stone.

Ministry of the Spirit = brings the letters into the heart through perfect love that will cast out the fear.

You're saying then that the Spirit brings death into the heart. The letters brought death.

The new covenant gives us a new heart with the law written in a heart of flesh, which causes us to delight in the law.

Ezekiel 36:26-28 "I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. "I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them. "Then you shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; you shall be My people, and I will be your God.

Who was this written to? When was it written? What 'land' is he talking about? When did God put his spirit within them? Context really helps to understand what is being written. And it's not hard to try find support for the old covenant by using the writings of those who were under it.

Romans 7:22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man.

I would love to see you use the whole chapter rather than using one verse out of context. The way you're using this verse goes completely against the context it is written in.

The terms and conditions of the old covenant changed, not the contents.

If you take away the contents you take away the means bywhich the Spirit convicts. If you take away the contents you have to completely take them away. In other words, if you say the Ten Commandents are taken away then no matter what you say or how you put it lying, stealing, murder, adultery, worshiping idols, using God's name in vain and so on is okay to do now. You can't have it both ways. You can't say the law is gone and then say if you have the Spirit you won't commit adultery because the only one who says adultery is wrong is what God has said and written. If you take that away then it's taken away, you can't have it both ways.

But it's not taken away, it is still a sin to lie, steal, murder, commit adultery, forget the Sabbath, use God's name in vain and so on, you've just been forgiven for breaking them.

Jeremiah 31:33-34 "But this is the new covenant that I will make with the house of Israel: After those days, says the Lord, I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. "No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, `Know the Lord,' for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,'' says the Lord. "For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.''

You can't hide from these verses.

I have no problem with the verses you are attempting to use. There is no reason to 'hide' from them. I would still like you to address the direct instruction to the newly emerging church that have been posted earlier. 2 Corinthians 3, Romans 7, Galatians 3, the whole book of Galatians for that matter. Why are you hiding from these?

In Christ alone...

 

[k4c]

You have a pattern of not dealing with the whole passages of scripture presented, so I won't waste your time posting them again.

Fear was NEVER the 'motivator' for ANY of the covenants God has made. God IS love, not fear.


Scripture says the LETTERS brought death and condemnation, not stone.


You're saying then that the Spirit brings death into the heart. The letters brought death.

Who was this written to? When was it written? What 'land' is he talking about? When did God put his spirit within them? Context really helps to understand what is being written. And it's not hard to try find support for the old covenant by using the writings of those who were under it.

I would love to see you use the whole chapter rather than using one verse out of context. The way you're using this verse goes completely against the context it is written in.

I have no problem with the verses you are attempting to use. There is no reason to 'hide' from them. I would still like you to address the direct instruction to the newly emerging church that have been posted earlier. 2 Corinthians 3, Romans 7, Galatians 3, the whole book of Galatians for that matter. Why are you hiding from these?

In Christ alone...

The old covenant was an agreement between God and man with certain terms which contain acts that could make people acceptable to God.

The acts in the old covenant were spelled out in stone and the terms to the old covenant were, obey or die.

Exodus 31:14 You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people.

The new covenant is also an agreement between God and man with certain terms which contain acts that would make people acceptable to God.

The new covanant says people broke the old one so God will make a new one.

Jeremiah 31:31-32 "Behold, the days are coming,'' says the Lord, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah "not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them,'' says the Lord.

Hebrews 8:8-9 Because finding fault with them (the people), He says: "Behold, the days are coming,'' says the Lord, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah "not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them,'' says the Lord. '

The new covenant is that God's Son will take the punishment for people breaking the old covenant which will allow God to legally forgive people. He will then write His Law in the heart of people and put His Spirit in them to help them obey His Law.

Ezekiel 36:26-27 "I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. "I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them.

Jeremiah 31:33-34 "But this is the new covenant that I will make with the house of Israel: After those days, says the Lord, I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. "No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, `Know the Lord,' for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,'' says the Lord. "For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more."

Hebrews 8:10-12 "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel: After those days,'' says the Lord, "I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. "None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, `Know the Lord,' for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. "For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.'' "

In the new covenant Jesus becomes our rightousness. We become acceptable to God in Christ, even with all our baggage.

In the new covenant it is no longer do or die, but rather, if you love Me.

The new covenant is based on God's grace. Grace is the fact that God does not give us what we deserve for breaking His Law. It's this grace seen in God's patience and long suffering that inspires us to keep His Law.

Titus 2:11-12 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age.

Living righteously and godly can only come from obeying God's Law.

 

[freeindeed2]

The old covenant was an agreement between God and man with certain terms which contain acts that could make people acceptable to God.

The acts in the old covenant were spelled out in stone and the terms to the old covenant were, obey or die.

Exodus 31:14 You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people.

The new covenant is also an agreement between God and man with certain terms which contain acts that would make people acceptable to God.


The new covanant says people broke the old one so God will make a new one.

Jeremiah 31:31-32 "Behold, the days are coming,'' says the Lord, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah "not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them,'' says the Lord.

Hebrews 8:8-9 Because finding fault with them (the people), He says: "Behold, the days are coming,'' says the Lord, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah "not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them,'' says the Lord. '

The new covenant is that God's Son will take the punishment for people breaking the old covenant which will allow God to legally forgive people. He will then write His Law in the heart of people and put His Spirit in them to help them obey His Law.

Ezekiel 36:26-27 "I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. "I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them.

Jeremiah 31:33-34 "But this is the new covenant that I will make with the house of Israel: After those days, says the Lord, I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. "No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, `Know the Lord,' for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,'' says the Lord. "For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more."

Hebrews 8:10-12 "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel: After those days,'' says the Lord, "I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. "None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, `Know the Lord,' for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. "For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.'' "

In the new covenant Jesus becomes our rightousness. We become acceptable to God in Christ, even with all our baggage.

In the new covenant it is no longer do or die, but rather, if you love Me.

The new covenant is based on God's grace. Grace is the fact that God does not give us what we deserve for breaking His Law. It's this grace seen in God's patience and long suffering that inspires us to keep His Law.

Titus 2:11-12 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age.

Living righteously and godly can only come from obeying God's Law.

You post is all over the biblical landscape. You've plucked a verse here and a verse there and strung them together in a scriptural quagmire of misuse, and you've done it without addressing what I wrote to you, the whole passages of instruction to the church, or even put the plucked verses you used there into context. Why?

And to respond to the mess above, how about this. People were all born spiritually dead. ALL of the covenants God made are based on his grace, mercy, and love. People have NEVER been 'acceptable to God' because of what they did and they NEVER will. It was NEVER 'do or die', because nobody ever 'did.' They didn't 'keep' the law...EVER. And anyone who claims they are 'keeping' it today is a liar. People are ONLY 'acceptable to God' by His grace alone through faith alone in the birth, life, death, and resurrection of Christ alone - PLUS NOTHING. We can't and don't add ANYTHING to what Jesus accomplished and fulfilled on the cross by 'certain acts.' Christ became sin FOR us so that we might become HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS. He sent his Spirit to give us life as opposed to the 'letters engraved on stone' that brought death. One brought death (letters), one gives life (Spirit). But the Spirit who gives life (to make us spiritually alive instead of dead) doesn't do so in order to bring death into our hearts (letters). We don't die to the law to be raised and joined to Christ himself in order to go back under the law that brought death in the first place!

It was NEVER 'do or die.' We were already dead! It was 'I love you' from God as he accomplished his plan to redeem dead people through Christ.

And we don't become righteous or Godly by trying to obey the law. Righteousness and Godliness come in, from, and through Christ alone. "But now God has shown us a way to be made right with him without keeping the requirements of the law, as was promised in the writings of Moses and the prophets long ago. We are made right with God by placing our faith in Jesus Christ. And this is true for everyone who believes, no matter who we are." Ro 3:21-22

It's ALL about Jesus and what he accomplished and fulfilled in himself. Please let me know when you're ready to study and comment on passages of scripture and not cherry-picked.

In Christ alone...

 

[k4c]

freeindeed2; People have NEVER been 'acceptable to God' because of what they did and they NEVER will.

Genesis 7:1 Then the Lord said to Noah, "Come into the ark, you and all your household, because I have seen that you are righteous before Me in this generation.

Job 1:8 Then the Lord said to Satan, "Have you considered My servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, one who fears God and shuns evil?''

Luke 1:6 Zacharias and Elizabeth were truly righteous before God, doing everything which was right and everything the Lord commanded. They were spotless,

It was NEVER 'do or die.' We were already dead! It was 'I love you' from God as he accomplished his plan to redeem dead people through Christ.

Spiritual death and physical death are two different things.

Exodus 31:14 You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death.

You really need to spend some time reading your Bible instead of listening to other people.

 

[freeindeed2]

Genesis 7:1 Then the Lord said to Noah, "Come into the ark, you and all your household, because I have seen that you are righteous before Me in this generation.

Job 1:8 Then the Lord said to Satan, "Have you considered My servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, one who fears God and shuns evil?''

Luke 1:6 Zacharias and Elizabeth were truly righteous before God, doing everything which was right and everything the Lord commanded. They were spotless,

So you disagree that ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God? You have misused scripture again.

By faith Noah, when warned about things not yet seen, in holy fear built an ark to save his family. By his faith he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness that is in keeping with faith. Heb 11:7

And Zacharias was struck dumb because of his unbelief or lack of faith later in the same passage you plucked that single verse from.

Spiritual death and physical death are two different things.

You're born spiritually dead, condemned to hell because of your human condition (although you would exempt a few people from being born in the line of Adam) and the fact that you have physical life is evidence of God's grace and love.

And the Lord God commanded the man, “You may freely eat of every tree of the garden; 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall die.” Ge 2:16-17

But they didn't die for 900+ years! Our physical life is only vapor, here one minute and then gone the next. But the spiritual death we are conceived into would be eternal except for the Savior, who after his death and resurrection sent the Holy Spirit to give us life. Spiritual life.

Exodus 31:14 You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death.

There is one example of someone being stoned for breaking the Sabbath, yet Israel never entered God's rest by their lame attempts at keeping the old covenant sign holy. In fact they 'trampled' on it and broke it continually to the point of God telling them to stop (Is. 1:13-14). The religious people in Christ's day weren't keeping it holy, yet you didn't see them being killed for it either.

You really need to spend some time reading your Bible instead of listening to other people.

That's a cheap shot, especially from someone who won't address the content and context of full passages of scripture.

In Christ alone...

 

[k4c]

So you disagree that ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God? You have misused scripture again.

By faith Noah, when warned about things not yet seen, in holy fear built an ark to save his family. By his faith he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness that is in keeping with faith. Heb 11:7

And Zacharias was struck dumb because of his unbelief or lack of faith later in the same passage you plucked that single verse from.

You're born spiritually dead, condemned to hell because of your human condition (although you would exempt a few people from being born in the line of Adam) and the fact that you have physical life is evidence of God's grace and love.

And the Lord God commanded the man, “You may freely eat of every tree of the garden; 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall die.” Ge 2:16-17

But they didn't die for 900+ years! Our physical life is only vapor, here one minute and then gone the next. But the spiritual death we are conceived into would be eternal except for the Savior, who after his death and resurrection sent the Holy Spirit to give us life. Spiritual life.

There is one example of someone being stoned for breaking the Sabbath, yet Israel never entered God's rest by their lame attempts at keeping the old covenant sign holy. In fact they 'trampled' on it and broke it continually to the point of God telling them to stop (Is. 1:13-14). The religious people in Christ's day weren't keeping it holy, yet you didn't see them being killed for it either.

That's a cheap shot, especially from someone who won't address the content and context of full passages of scripture.

In Christ alone...

Sorry about the cheap shot, that was kind of harsh...

We all have sinned, this is true. But we do have moments in our lives that are pleasing to God.

We can do what is right in God's eyes but it's not a means to eternal life.

Ezekiel 33-18-19 "When the righteous turns from his righteousness and commits iniquity, he shall die because of it. "But when the wicked turns from his wickedness and does what is lawful and right, he shall live because of it.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

We all have sinned, this is true. But we do have moments in our lives that are pleasing to God.

I wonder if He is pleased because of what I do or because of whose I am.

BFA

 

[Avonia]

I wonder if He is pleased because of what I do or because of whose I am.
BFA

Doing flows from being, and reflects back to shape it. So our being precipitates our doing, and our doing changes our being.

So, we can understand "identity" in the sense of our moment of separation from the One into creation. And, we can understand "identity" as the whole of our experience. Both understandings are rich.

For the first, our identity is unchangeable - Child of God. For the second, our identity is the whole of our flux.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

Doing flows from being, and reflects back to shape it. So our being precipitates our doing, and our doing changes our being.

I submit that our beauty flows less from being and more from belonging. If this is true, doing has little relevance.

I love my children in spite of many things they do and because of whose they are.

Perhaps we are describing different attributes of the same elephant.

BFA

 

[Joe67]

Rom 2:13
13(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. KJV

Rom 3:20
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. KJV

Rom 5:1
1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: KJV

Heb 11:6
6 But without faith it is impossible to please him:KJV

Rom 14:23
for whatsoever is not of faith is sin. KJV

This is not a theory/doctrine only. It is first and last an experience in the voice of the Lord.

For:
Rom 10:17
faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. KJV

Joe