Love and Self control

[k4c]

I quoted Romans 3:27-31 ...why say you 'wrong conclusion'...?

In my earlier years I was told by my SDA teachers and pastors that Romans 3:31 established the 10 commandments. AND, I accepted this answer for MANY years (shame on me for not searching this out in the WORD for myself sooner). Even re-studying today Rom 3:27-31 and it is all about the Law of FAITH and..the LAW of FAITH is what is common between between Israel and Gentiles!

There's more...

So in other words what you are saying is we don't make void the law of faith through faith we establish the law of faith? This does not make sense.

31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid:
yea, we establish the law. KJV

Do you really believe our faith now allows us to commit adultery, lie, murder and so on or do you believe our faith now causes us to keep the law?

What Romans 3 is talking about being justified through faith as opposed to being jusitied through keeping the law. We all know that when we put our faith in Christ we are justified without works of the law but that does not mean I can now commit adultery, steal, lie, murder and so on. All it means is that I am now justified because I put my faith in Christ. Does this faith now nullify my responsibility to obey the law? No way. We keep the law through the same faith. In other words, when the whole world is lying, stealing, killing and committing all kinds of sexual immorallity and so on we, through faith, do not even if we are made fun of by the world for not living as they do.

 

[Restin]

So in other words what you are saying is we don't make void the law of faith through faith we establish the law of faith? This does not make sense.


Do you really believe our faith now allows us to commit adultery, lie, murder and so on or do you believe our faith now causes us to keep the law?

The law of Faith given to the Gentiles...did it produce adultery, murder, lying, etc.,...NO! (ref: Romans 2:14-15 & 3:27-31, verses previously quoted on this thread)

Faith, as given to the Gentiles, does not have a FORM and does not require the keeping of any FORM of law, as a basis for salvation! God is spirit and they that worship Him do so in SPIRIT and in TRUTH.

Abraham, 430 years before the 10 commandments were given to Moses at Mt. Sinai, gives an example of this LAW of FAITH...

Romans 4:20-25

20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief;
but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
22 And therefore it [faith] was imputed to him for righteousness.
23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed,
if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification. KJV

 

[k4c]

Faith, as given to the Gentiles, does not have a FORM and does not require the keeping of any FORM of law, as a basis for salvation!

Keeping the law is not a means to be saved, but rather, if you are saved you will keep the Law. The keeping of the law as a fruit of salvation is not in order to be righteous, but rather, as an expression of love.

 

[Avonia]

Keeping the law is not a means to be saved, but rather, if you are saved you will keep the Law. The keeping of the law as a fruit of salvation is not in order to be righteous, but rather, as an expression of love.

If we acted from love and not fear, conversations about "The Law" would be unnecessary.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

Oops. Triple post. Not sure how I did that. Many apologies!

BFA

 

[Byfaithalone1]

Oops. Triple post. Not sure how I did that. Many apologies!

BFA

 

[Byfaithalone1]

Keeping the law is not a means to be saved, but rather, if you are saved you will keep the Law. The keeping of the law as a fruit of salvation is not in order to be righteous, but rather, as an expression of love.

From where (or Whom) do fruits come?

BFA

 

[Restin]

Keeping the law is not a means to be saved, but rather, if you are saved you will keep the Law.

Jesus defined LAW differently than LAW as given to Moses...In these TWO COMMANDMENTS, given us from the mouth of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, there is no room for idol worship, murder, lying, stealing, fornication etc.

Matt 22:37-40

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart,
and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.

39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. KJV

The keeping of the law as a fruit of salvation is not in order to be righteous, but rather, as an expression of love.

The fruits of salvation....expression of love...? IF you LOVE God FIRST and foremost....then, love to your fellow man will be made manifest by yielding the fruits of the SPIRIT in every thought and deed. There is no higher expression of one's love to or for God, than to be the vessel to bear HIS fruit/s of righteousness.

Gal 5:22-23

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering,
gentleness, goodness, faith,

23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. KJV

 

[k4c]

Jesus defined LAW differently than LAW as given to Moses...In these TWO COMMANDMENTS, given us from the mouth of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, there is no room for idol worship, murder, lying, stealing, fornication etc.


The fruits of salvation....expression of love...? IF you LOVE God FIRST and foremost....then, love to your fellow man will be made manifest by yielding the fruits of the SPIRIT in every thought and deed. There is no higher expression of one's love to or for God, than to be the vessel to bear HIS fruit/s of righteousness.

Love fulfills the law, in other words, love won't do harm to your neighbor. What this is saying is that if you love you will keep the law because the spirit of the law is love. So the motive for keeping the law is love vs trying to be righteous.

You have been taught to reject the law in how you teach and believe but in your heart you know the law is still alive an well. If you get your heart and your mind on the same page you will be a powerful witness for the kingdom of God in truth and in love.

 

[freeindeed2]

Love fulfills the law, in other words, love won't do harm to your neighbor. What this is saying is that if you love you will keep the law because the spirit of the law is love. So the motive for keeping the law is love vs trying to be righteous.

You have been taught to reject the law in how you teach and believe but in your heart you know the law is still alive an well. If you get your heart and your mind on the same page you will be a powerful witness for the kingdom of God in truth and in love.

The law sure is alive and well and condemns everyone under it. I don't see anyone teaching rejection of the law. It doesn't work that way. In Romans 7 we can see that we die to the law in order to be "joined to another, Christ himself." But we cannot be joined to both the law and Christ (spiritual adultery).

In Christ alone...

 

[StormyOne]

Gal 3:2-4 (The Message Version) Let me put this question to you: How did your new life begin? Was it by working your heads off to please God? Or was it by responding to God's Message to you? Are you going to continue this craziness? For only crazy people would think they could complete by their own efforts what was begun by God. If you weren't smart enough or strong enough to begin it, how do you suppose you could perfect it? Did you go through this whole painful learning process for nothing? It is not yet a total loss, but it certainly will be if you keep this up!

11-12 The obvious impossibility of carrying out such a moral program should make it plain that no one can sustain a relationship with God that way. The person who lives in right relationship with God does it by embracing what God arranges for him. Doing things for God is the opposite of entering into what God does for you. Habakkuk had it right: "The person who believes God, is set right by God—and that's the real life." Rule-keeping does not naturally evolve into living by faith, but only perpetuates itself in more and more rule-keeping, a fact observed in Scripture: "The one who does these things [rule-keeping] continues to live by them."

21-22 If such is the case, is the law, then, an anti-promise, a negation of God's will for us? Not at all. Its purpose was to make obvious to everyone that we are, in ourselves, out of right relationship with God, and therefore to show us the futility of devising some religious system for getting by our own efforts what we can only get by waiting in faith for God to complete his promise. For if any kind of rule-keeping had power to create life in us, we would certainly have gotten it by this time.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

Love fulfills the law, in other words, love won't do harm to your neighbor. What this is saying is that if you love you will keep the law because the spirit of the law is love. So the motive for keeping the law is love vs trying to be righteous.

By whose love was the law fulfilled?

You have been taught to reject the law in how you teach and believe

I die to the law so that I may be joined with another. That is as it should be.

but in your heart you know the law is still alive an well.

As an SDA, I saw first-hand that the law is still alive and well.

If you get your heart and your mind on the same page you will be a powerful witness for the kingdom of God in truth and in love.

Oh, that I could get my heart and my mind on the same page. Paul had a similar conflict. If you've found the antidote, please share it with us.

BFA

 

[Restin]

The law sure is alive and well and condemns everyone under it. I don't see anyone teaching rejection of the law. It doesn't work that way. In Romans 7 we can see that we die to the law in order to be "joined to another, Christ himself." But we cannot be joined to both the law and Christ (spiritual adultery).

In Christ alone...
_______________________
So if the Son makes you FREE, you will be FREE INDEED. Jn 8:36
So Christ has truly set us FREE. Now make sure that you stay FREE, and don’t get tied up again in slavery to the law. Gal 5:1

Appreciate much....

 

[Restin]

Oh, that I could get my heart and my mind on the same page. Paul had a similar conflict. If you've found the antidote, please share it with us.

BFA

Thanks BFA....same here. Peter thought to be 'on the same page' with Jesus and promised to stay by our Lord during the coming trials...was Peter ABLE to do what he promied? ....No! Just previous, in the garden Jesus had forewarned Peter of the 'WEAKNESS' of flesh....

Matthew 26:41

41 Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation:
the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak. KJV

There is an antidote that puts me/you/us with Christ 'on the same page', but it is DONE FOR ME/YOU/US apart from my/your choosing. This antidote begins when we are given to understand and acknowledge our own fleshly weakness! It is when 'I am weak' that Christ is 'strong'.

restin

 

[Adventtruth]

Without the Law of God there is nothing to base self control on.

Without the Law of God there is no standard bywhich to define love.

Without the Law of God there is no voice in the conscience.

Without the Law of God there is no bases for God to know us.

Matthew 7:22-23 "Many will say to Me in that day, `Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' "And then I will declare to them, `I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'

Do you see why Satan needs to do away with the Law of God?

Very good eisegesis here. You have successfully interjected you own thoughts here and not the thoughts and intentions of the author of the passage. The idea here goes beyond the keeping of the ten commandments. If it didn't, you to would not be known and casted into hell without any mercy and hope.

AT

 

[k4c]

Byfaithalone1;I die to the law so that I may be joined with another. That is as it should be.

Does that mean you can now commit adultery, lie, steal, forget the Sabbath, worship other Gods, use God's name in vain and so on?

 

[Avonia]

Does that mean you can now commit adultery, lie, steal, forget the Sabbath, worship other Gods, use God's name in vain and so on?

A different question is how do we build on the foundation of the 10 and continuously move toward a more whole understanding of right action.

You can keep the law while violating the principle it stems from. You can align with the principle even though you are violating the law. You can be misaligned with both. Or aligned with both.

Because we tend toward excessive reduction, "keeping the commandments" hasn't been well correlated with those pursuing right action.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

Does that mean you can now commit adultery, lie, steal, forget the Sabbath, worship other Gods, use God's name in vain and so on?

Woe to me if I do not understand that, regardless of whether or not I die to the law, I am guilty of such things.

Dying to the law does not bring permission to sin any more than living to the law brings freedom from sin.

The question is the entity to whom one is joined. Am I joined with the law, or am I joined with Jesus Christ? Spiritual adultery comes from seeking to be joined with both.

BFA

 

[Avonia]

Dying to the law does not bring permission to sin any more than living to the law brings freedom from sin.

Such a good one-liner.

 

[Adventtruth]

Does that mean you can now commit adultery, lie, steal, forget the Sabbath, worship other Gods, use God's name in vain and so on?

Question for you k4c if you will. Do you understand why Paul in writing Romans would make such a claim that the Roman believers where then dead to the law and what that means? If so can you kindly state why?

AT