Love and Self control

[freeindeed2]

Does that mean you can now commit adultery, lie, steal, forget the Sabbath, worship other Gods, use God's name in vain and so on?

I don't understand why this is the question people seem to automatically ask when we talk about not being under the law, or the law being 'obsolete', or 'waxing old', or it being fulfilled by Christ, etc. Lol. Seriously?

We know that the 'letters engraved on stone' were the 'ministry of death' and the 'ministry of condemnation' (and still are!). They condemn ALL to death. Period. Even when Israel was under the law, they didn't keep it. They worshiped other gods, killed, broke the Sabbath, stole, lied, committed adultery, etc., which is exactly why the law could only condemn to death ALL people.

But where the letter brings death the Holy Spirit brings LIFE. It's a contrast between DEATH and LIFE (LAW and HOLY SPIRIT). The Holy Spirit doesn't bring us life in order to return us to what only brings death and condemnation. (2 Cor. 3) And we don't die to the law so we can be raised up and joined to ANOTHER, only to be rejoined to what we died to in the first place (Rom. 7).

So when the question is asked, "Does that mean we can go out and KILL people then, or lie, or steal?" Those to whom the law was given (Israelites) broke it even though they had the law! Why would it be something that is 'OK' for those joined to Christ (and dead to the law) with the Holy Spirit of God who brings life (and is MORE glorious than the law that was fading away and being brought to an end - 2 Cor. 3) living IN them? That would be absurd!

The Holy Spirit is the 'ministry of righteousness' that far exceeds the glory of the ministry of death and condemnation (letters engraved on stone), because He brings LIFE. Yet people want to run back to what the Bible says 'has no glory at all' instead, back to death.

In Christ alone...

 

[k4c]

I don't understand why this is the question people seem to automatically ask when we talk about not being under the law, or the law being 'obsolete', or 'waxing old', or it being fulfilled by Christ, etc. Lol. Seriously?

We know that the 'letters engraved on stone' were the 'ministry of death' and the 'ministry of condemnation' (and still are!). They condemn ALL to death. Period. Even when Israel was under the law, they didn't keep it. They worshiped other gods, killed, broke the Sabbath, stole, lied, committed adultery, etc., which is exactly why the law could only condemn to death ALL people.

But where the letter brings death the Holy Spirit brings LIFE. It's a contrast between DEATH and LIFE (LAW and HOLY SPIRIT). The Holy Spirit doesn't bring us life in order to return us to what only brings death and condemnation. (2 Cor. 3) And we don't die to the law so we can be raised up and joined to ANOTHER, only to be rejoined to what we died to in the first place (Rom. 7).

So when the question is asked, "Does that mean we can go out and KILL people then, or lie, or steal?" Those to whom the law was given (Israelites) broke it even though they had the law! Why would it be something that is 'OK' for those joined to Christ (and dead to the law) with the Holy Spirit of God who brings life (and is MORE glorious than the law that was fading away and being brought to an end - 2 Cor. 3) living IN them? That would be absurd!

The Holy Spirit is the 'ministry of righteousness' that far exceeds the glory of the ministry of death and condemnation (letters engraved on stone), because He brings LIFE. Yet people want to run back to what the Bible says 'has no glory at all' instead, back to death.

In Christ alone...

What does the law on stone kill?

It kills the old man.

The law points out sin so we can come to Jesus. The law will always point out sin so we can repent of it.

Remember, the law that brings death was suppose to bring life but because of sin it brought death. In all this we are not free from the law as it applies to what is right, holy and good but as to the curse. We are not under the curse of the law because Jesus took away the curse when He took our sin away, but as the law itself, it will always point out sin in our daily walk with the help of the indwelling Spirit. This is the new covenant and the ministry of the Spirit.

Ezekiel 36:26-28 "I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. "I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them. "Then you shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; you shall be My people, and I will be your God.

 

[Adventtruth]

Question for you k4c if you will. Do you understand why Paul in writing Romans would make such a claim that the Roman believers where then dead to the law and what that means? If so can you kindly state why?

AT

Bump for k4c

 

[Adventtruth]

double posting

 

[Adventtruth]

....Remember, the law that brings death was suppose to bring life but because of sin it brought death.

OK you said it, now its up to you to give a scripture. So kindly prove it with scripture that law was to bring life please. I say God brings life, what bout you?

AT

 

[Avonia]

The law points out sin so we can come to Jesus.

I don't find the law you are talking about especially good at "pointing out sin." Almost everything that catches people falls outside of it - at least if you interpret it literally. The ten commandments don't factor into my behavior one way or the other. I am not "tempted" by the issues they address, so "keeping" them takes no effort or attention. I can assure you that I will not be tempted to kill anyone I see the rest of the day!

Having said that, I don't think cursing has anything to do with taking the Lord's name in vain - and I don't think going to church on Saturday has much to do with understanding Sabbath.

The 10 commandments were the most basic starting point for a people who were not ready for more. I don't find the behavior of people who feel bound by the ten commandments any better on average then the behavior of those who don't give it much thought.

But I do find the behavior of people who act from love much different than the behavior of those who act from fear.

I find this a central insight in the teachings of Jesus.

 

[freeindeed2]

What does the law on stone kill?

It kills the old man.

The law points out sin so we can come to Jesus. The law will always point out sin so we can repent of it.

Remember, the law that brings death was suppose to bring life but because of sin it brought death. In all this we are not free from the law as it applies to what is right, holy and good but as to the curse. We are not under the curse of the law because Jesus took away the curse when He took our sin away, but as the law itself, it will always point out sin in our daily walk with the help of the indwelling Spirit. This is the new covenant and the ministry of the Spirit.

Ezekiel 36:26-28 "I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. "I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them. "Then you shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; you shall be My people, and I will be your God.

I'd like to ask you to address the passages I referred to and then I'll respond to what you wrote above and the passage you're using.

2 Cor. 3:7-18

"Now if the ministry of death, carved in letters on stone, came with such glory that the Israelites could not gaze at Moses' face because of its glory, which was being brought to an end, will not the ministry of the Spirit have even more glory? For if there was glory in the ministry of condemnation, the ministry righteousness must far exceed it in glory.

Indeed, in this case, what once had glory has come to have no glory at all, because of the glory that surpasses it. For if what was being brought to an end came with glory, much more will what is permanent have glory.

Since we have such a hope, we are very bold, not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face so that the Israelites might not gaze at the outcome of what was being brought to an end. But their minds were hardened. For to this day, when they read the old covenant, that same veil remains unlifted, because only through Christ is it taken away.

Yes, to this day whenever Moses is read a veil lies over their hearts. But when one turns to the Lord, the veil is removed. Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit."​

Observations:

• The ministry of death is carved in letters on stone.
• It came with glory and Israel could not gaze at Moses' face.
• It's glory was being brought to an end.
• The ministry of the Spirit has even more glory?
• There was glory in the ministry of condemnation.
• The ministry of righteousness far exceeds the ministry of condemnation.
• What once had glory has no glory at all, because of the glory that surpasses it.
• What once had glory was being brought to an end, even though it came with glory.
• The ministry of the Spirit and ministry of righteousness is permanent and has more glory.
• Moses put a veil over his face so that Israel couldn't see that the glory of the letters engraved on stone was being brought to an end.
• Their minds were hardened.
• To this day when they read the old covenant (letters engraved on stone) the veil remains.
• Only through Christ is the veil taken away.
• Whenever Moses is read a veil lies over their hearts.
• BUT in turning to the Lord, the veil is removed.
• The Lord is Spirit
• Where the Spirit of the Lord is, is also freedom.
• Once the veil is removed we behold the glory of the Lord and are being transformed into the same image.
• This comes from the Lord who is the Spirit.

It is worth noting verse 6: "But our sufficiency is from God, (6) who has made us competent to be ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit. For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life." (Emphasis mine.)

It sounds to me like you're trying to combine the 'killing letters' with the 'life-giving Spirit'? The new covenant is not of the letter but of the Spirit. The old covenant IS the letters engraved on stone (stored in the ark of the covenant). Both had glory, one was being brought to an end, the other lasts forever. The law had a beginning and an end.

"This is what I mean: the law, which came 430 years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void. For if the inheritance comes by the law, it no longer comes by promise; but God gave it to Abraham by a promise." Gal. 3:17-18​

The law 'began' 430 years after Abraham, and that covenant did not annul the promises God made to Abraham. Verse 19:

"Why then the law? It was added because of transgressions, until the offspring should come to whom the promise had been made," (v. 16 clearly identifies the 'offspring' as Christ).​

The law was 'added', again showing a beginning point, because of transgressions. Moving on (v.21).

"Is the law then contrary to the promises of God? Certainly not! For if a law had been given that could give life, then righteousness would indeed be by the law."​

This is the same contrast we see in 2 Cor. 3. The law (letters on stone) could not give life (it's a ministry of death), but the ministry of righteousness does (letter kills, Spirit gives life). Righteousness exists apart from the law.

v. 22-24 "But the Scripture imprisoned everything under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith."​

The law imprisoned and held captive those who were under it. It acted as a guardian UNTIL Christ came. It's an ending point, which is why to the Corinthian churches Paul used language like 'being brought to an end'. It started 430 years after Abraham and acted as a guardian (schoolmaster) UNTIL Christ...SO THAT we can be justified by faith in Christ.

v. 25-27 "But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ."​

We are no longer under 'a guardian', the law, BECAUSE in Christ we are already sons of God through faith in what HE did. We have put on Christ.

The passage goes on to clarify that we are ONE in Christ and heirs according to promise.

So, by what you've presented, you are saying that the ministry of the Spirit is somehow combined with the ministry of death, that the letter that kills is combined with the Spirit that gives life, that what was being brought to an end is combined with that which lasts,? Would you say that even though Gal. 3 shows a beginning and an end to the law, that the law acted as a guardian imprisoning and holding captive those under it, and that we are no longer under the guardian but have put on Christ, that it was all done so that we could still be under the guardian, ministry of death, ministry of condemnation, and letter that kills, just in Christ? Do you believe that the new covenant is just the old covenant all over again?

I would love to hear your thoughts and how you would address the actual words in the passages above. I used the ESV. I'll get to the Romans 7 passage later. I've got to run for now.

In CHRIST alone...

 

[k4c]

I'd like to ask you to address the passages I referred to and then I'll respond to what you wrote above and the passage you're using.

2 Cor. 3:7-18

"Now if the ministry of death, carved in letters on stone, came with such glory that the Israelites could not gaze at Moses' face because of its glory, which was being brought to an end, will not the ministry of the Spirit have even more glory? For if there was glory in the ministry of condemnation, the ministry righteousness must far exceed it in glory.

Indeed, in this case, what once had glory has come to have no glory at all, because of the glory that surpasses it. For if what was being brought to an end came with glory, much more will what is permanent have glory.

Since we have such a hope, we are very bold, not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face so that the Israelites might not gaze at the outcome of what was being brought to an end. But their minds were hardened. For to this day, when they read the old covenant, that same veil remains unlifted, because only through Christ is it taken away.

Yes, to this day whenever Moses is read a veil lies over their hearts. But when one turns to the Lord, the veil is removed. Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit."
​

Observations:

• The ministry of death is carved in letters on stone.
• It came with glory and Israel could not gaze at Moses' face.
• It's glory was being brought to an end.
• The ministry of the Spirit has even more glory?
• There was glory in the ministry of condemnation.
• The ministry of righteousness far exceeds the ministry of condemnation.
• What once had glory has no glory at all, because of the glory that surpasses it.
• What once had glory was being brought to an end, even though it came with glory.
• The ministry of the Spirit and ministry of righteousness is permanent and has more glory.
• Moses put a veil over his face so that Israel couldn't see that the glory of the letters engraved on stone was being brought to an end.
• Their minds were hardened.
• To this day when they read the old covenant (letters engraved on stone) the veil remains.
• Only through Christ is the veil taken away.
• Whenever Moses is read a veil lies over their hearts.
• BUT in turning to the Lord, the veil is removed.
• The Lord is Spirit
• Where the Spirit of the Lord is, is also freedom.
• Once the veil is removed we behold the glory of the Lord and are being transformed into the same image.
• This comes from the Lord who is the Spirit.

It is worth noting verse 6: "But our sufficiency is from God, (6) who has made us competent to be ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit. For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life." (Emphasis mine.)

It sounds to me like you're trying to combine the 'killing letters' with the 'life-giving Spirit'? The new covenant is not of the letter but of the Spirit. The old covenant IS the letters engraved on stone (stored in the ark of the covenant). Both had glory, one was being brought to an end, the other lasts forever. The law had a beginning and an end.

"This is what I mean: the law, which came 430 years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void. For if the inheritance comes by the law, it no longer comes by promise; but God gave it to Abraham by a promise." Gal. 3:17-18
​

The law 'began' 430 years after Abraham, and that covenant did not annul the promises God made to Abraham. Verse 19:

"Why then the law? It was added because of transgressions, until the offspring should come to whom the promise had been made," (v. 16 clearly identifies the 'offspring' as Christ).
​

The law was 'added', again showing a beginning point, because of transgressions. Moving on (v.21).

"Is the law then contrary to the promises of God? Certainly not! For if a law had been given that could give life, then righteousness would indeed be by the law."
​

This is the same contrast we see in 2 Cor. 3. The law (letters on stone) could not give life (it's a ministry of death), but the ministry of righteousness does (letter kills, Spirit gives life). Righteousness exists apart from the law.

v. 22-24 "But the Scripture imprisoned everything under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith."
​

The law imprisoned and held captive those who were under it. It acted as a guardian UNTIL Christ came. It's an ending point, which is why to the Corinthian churches Paul used language like 'being brought to an end'. It started 430 years after Abraham and acted as a guardian (schoolmaster) UNTIL Christ...SO THAT we can be justified by faith in Christ.

v. 25-27 "But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ."
​

We are no longer under 'a guardian', the law, BECAUSE in Christ we are already sons of God through faith in what HE did. We have put on Christ.

The passage goes on to clarify that we are ONE in Christ and heirs according to promise.

So, by what you've presented, you are saying that the ministry of the Spirit is somehow combined with the ministry of death, that the letter that kills is combined with the Spirit that gives life, that what was being brought to an end is combined with that which lasts,? Would you say that even though Gal. 3 shows a beginning and an end to the law, that the law acted as a guardian imprisoning and holding captive those under it, and that we are no longer under the guardian but have put on Christ, that it was all done so that we could still be under the guardian, ministry of death, ministry of condemnation, and letter that kills, just in Christ? Do you believe that the new covenant is just the old covenant all over again?

I would love to hear your thoughts and how you would address the actual words in the passages above. I used the ESV. I'll get to the Romans 7 passage later. I've got to run for now.

In CHRIST alone...

Old Covenant = law written in stone.
Exodus 31:18 And when He had made an end of speaking with him on Mount Sinai, He gave Moses two tablets of the Testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.

New Covenant = law written on heart.
Hebrews 8:10 "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel: After those days,'' says the Lord, "I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

Old Covenant = law governed the actions of man.
Leviticus 20:10`The man who commits adultery with another man's wife, he who commits adultery with his neighbor's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress, shall surely be put to death.

New Covenant = law governs the inward/thoughts man.
Matthew 5:28 "But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Old Covenant = law kept by the power of the flesh.
Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh,

New Covenant = law kept by the power of the Spirit.
Ezekiel 11:19-20 "Then I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within them, and take the stony heart out of their flesh, and give them a heart of flesh, "that they may walk in My statutes and keep My judgments and do them; and they shall be My people, and I will be their God.

The Spirit of God works in conjuction with the law of God.
John 16:7-8 "Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you. "And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

 

[Avonia]

The Spirit of God works in conjuction with the law of God.

K4c, this reminds me of the Tree of Life in Kabbalah. The ten Sephiroth are organized into three columns.

The left column is the "Pillar of Severity." The right column is the "Pillar of Mercy." And the middle column is the balance of the two.

 

[freeindeed2]

Old Covenant = law written in stone.
Exodus 31:18 And when He had made an end of speaking with him on Mount Sinai, He gave Moses two tablets of the Testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.

New Covenant = law written on heart.
Hebrews 8:10 "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel: After those days,'' says the Lord, "I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

Old Covenant = law governed the actions of man.
Leviticus 20:10`The man who commits adultery with another man's wife, he who commits adultery with his neighbor's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress, shall surely be put to death.

New Covenant = law governs the inward/thoughts man.
Matthew 5:28 "But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Old Covenant = law kept by the power of the flesh.
Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh,

New Covenant = law kept by the power of the Spirit.
Ezekiel 11:19-20 "Then I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within them, and take the stony heart out of their flesh, and give them a heart of flesh, "that they may walk in My statutes and keep My judgments and do them; and they shall be My people, and I will be their God.

The Spirit of God works in conjuction with the law of God.
John 16:7-8 "Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you. "And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Does that mean you aren't going to address the actual words of the scriptures posted and give your thoughts?

In Christ alone...

 

[k4c]

Does that mean you aren't going to address the actual words of the scriptures posted and give your thoughts?

In Christ alone...

I already answered you but probably not in the way you wanted.

Let's look at the key difference between the two covenans.

2 Cor. "Now if the ministry of death, carved in letters on stone, came with such glory that the Israelites could not gaze at Moses' face because of its glory, which was being brought to an end, will not the ministry of the Spirit have even more glory? For if there was glory in the ministry of condemnation, the ministry righteousness must far exceed it in glory.

Letters on stone = outward influencing the actions of man through fear of punishment.

The old covenant had fear as it's motivator.

The new covevant has love as it's motivator.

The old covenant stone words dealt with a stone heart in that it brought death and condemnation.

Ministry of the Spirit = brings the letters into the heart through perfect love that will cast out the fear.

The new covenant gives us a new heart with the law written in a heart of flesh, which causes us to delight in the law.

Ezekiel 36:26-28 "I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. "I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them. "Then you shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; you shall be My people, and I will be your God.

Romans 7:22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man.

The terms and conditions of the old covenant changed, not the contents.

If you take away the contents you take away the means bywhich the Spirit convicts. If you take away the contents you have to completely take them away. In other words, if you say the Ten Commandents are taken away then no matter what you say or how you put it lying, stealing, murder, adultery, worshiping idols, using God's name in vain and so on is okay to do now. You can't have it both ways. You can't say the law is gone and then say if you have the Spirit you won't commit adultery because the only one who says adultery is wrong is what God has said and written. If you take that away then it's taken away, you can't have it both ways.

But it's not taken away, it is still a sin to lie, steal, murder, commit adultery, forget the Sabbath, use God's name in vain and so on, you've just been forgiven for breaking them.

Jeremiah 31:33-34 "But this is the new covenant that I will make with the house of Israel: After those days, says the Lord, I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. "No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, `Know the Lord,' for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,'' says the Lord. "For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.''

You can't hide from these verses.

 

[Adventtruth]

k4c I suspect that you would rather not deal with my questions or you dont have an answer? Which of the two?


AT

 

[Joe67]

To both parties of opposing sides: Romans 4:16.

The promise of God is to both the uncircumcised and the circumcised.

The uncircumcised hear the law as:
You shall love the Lord your God with all...
You shall love your neighbor as...

The circumcised (since Sinai) hear the law as:
You shall not have any other gods...
You shall not kill...

The end result is the same for each who hear the commandments in faith.
......Repentance toward God ... and finally service to the body of Jesus.

The end result is the same for each who hear the commandments faithless.
.....Hardness of heart for the circumcised. Wise in conceit for the uncircumcised.

Joe

 

[k4c]

To both parties of opposing sides: Romans 4:16.

The promise of God is to both the uncircumcised and the circumcised.

The uncircumcised hear the law as:
You shall love the Lord your God with all...
You shall love your neighbor as...

The circumcised (since Sinai) hear the law as:
You shall not have any other gods...
You shall not kill...

The end result is the same for each who hear the commandments in faith.
......Repentance toward God ... and finally service to the body of Jesus.

The end result is the same for each who hear the commandments faithless.
.....Hardness of heart for the circumcised. Wise in conceit for the uncircumcised.

Joe

Good points but there is nether in Christ.

You shall love the Lord your God with all...
You shall love your neighbor as...

This is the Spirit of the law.

The law itself is the how to love God and neighbor.

 

[k4c]

k4c I suspect that you would rather not deal with my questions or you dont have an answer? Which of the two?

AT

I must have missed something.

Anyway, my replies have been answering all the question if you have been following along.

 

[Adventtruth]

I must have missed something.

Anyway, my replies have been answering all the question if you have been following along.

Sorry I entered this conversation late. But I asked you direct questions...its your choice to answer directly....its your right to not to respond to me directly. But I hoped you would. So will you please directly answer me?

AT

 

[k4c]

Sorry I entered this conversation late. But I asked you direct questions...its your choice to answer directly....its your right to not to respond to me directly. But I hoped you would. So will you please directly answer me?

AT

Okay, what's your question?

 

[Adventtruth]

Okay, what's your question?

Do you understand why Paul in writing Romans would make such a claim that the Roman believers where then dead to the law, and what that means? If so can you kindly state why?

AT

 

[k4c]

Do you understand why Paul in writing Romans would make such a claim that the Roman believers where then dead to the law, and what that means? If so can you kindly state why?

AT

The context of Romans 7 is how the law exposes sin and the sin nature, in other words, the old man. When Paul said he died he was referring to the old man. He goes on to say that the law, which was suppose to bring life, ended up bringing death because of sin. The law is holy and good but it has a condeming affect on sinful man. When we come to Christ the condeming power of the law is done away with, Romans 8 speaks all about this. We become dead to that aspect of the law but remember, the law is good, holy and right so the whole law will not be done away with because we know it is still wrong to commit adultery, lie, murder and so on.

The Bible teaches of an inward man and an outward man. The outward man has to do with the old man, whether religious or not and the lust of the flesh. It is this that the law condemns. It is this aspect of us that dies to the condeming power of the law. This is called the ministery of death. This is what it was suppose to do. But remember, that same law was suppose to bring life and will once the old man is put to death.

When we're married to Christ our relationship to the law changes, not the law itself. We become set free because we no longer view the law as a means to obtain righeousness and the law no longer brings death because Jesus takes away our sin.

Mark 10:17-19 Now as He was going out on the road, one came running, knelt before Him, and asked Him, "Good Teacher, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?'' So Jesus said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. "You know the commandments: `Do not commit adultery,' `Do not murder,' `Do not steal,' `Do not bear false witness,' `Do not defraud,' `Honor your father and your mother.' ''

Jesus points the man to the law when He was asked about eternal life. Jesus then leads the man into the spirit of the law, which is where the man fell. If the man was keeping the spirit of the law he would have seen the need all around him and help the poor with his riches because the spirit of the law is love for God and love for neighbor.

Mark 10:20-22 And he answered and said to Him, "Teacher, all these I have observed from my youth.'' Then Jesus, looking at him, loved him, and said to him, "One thing you lack: Go your way, sell whatever you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, take up the cross, and follow Me.'' But he was sad at this word, and went away grieved, for he had great possessions.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

The context of Romans 7 is how the law exposes sin and the sin nature, in other words, the old man.

If the Bible is the basis of our understanding on this subject than let's consider the actual words of Romans 7 which tell us that we are to die to the law so that we may be joined with another. The context clarifies that the law to which we are to die includes the command "thou shalt not covet." These words aren't in conflict with the concept that the law exposes sin. Rather, they provide more information regarding the relationship between God (the One to whom we are joined) and the law (the entity to whom we die). Hebrews refers to this relationship as "the reality" (God) and "the shadow" (the law).

When Paul said he died he was referring to the old man. He goes on to say that the law, which was suppose to bring life, ended up bringing death because of sin.

. . . because of man's ongoing inability to keep the law.

The law is holy and good but it has a condeming affect on sinful man.

Which includes every person. The law brings death to all persons because all sin.

When we come to Christ the condeming power of the law is done away with.

When we come to Christ, we continue to sin. Therefore the law continues to bring death. It is the Spirit, not law, that brings life.

The Bible teaches of an inward man and an outward man. The outward man has to do with the old man, whether religious or not and the lust of the flesh. It is this that the law condemns. It is this aspect of us that dies to the condeming power of the law. This is called the ministery of death. This is what it was suppose to do. But remember, that same law was suppose to bring life and will once the old man is put to death.

The ministry that brings death is the letters engraved on stones.

When we're married to Christ our relationship to the law changes, not the law itself.

When we are married to Christ we can no longer be married to the law. If we are married to the law, we commit spiritual adultery.

We become set free because we no longer view the law as a means to obtain righeousness

How is this a change?

Jesus points the man to the law when He was asked about eternal life. Jesus then leads the man into the spirit of the law, which is where the man fell. If the man was keeping the spirit of the law he would have seen the need all around him and help the poor with his riches because the spirit of the law is love for God and love for neighbor.

If we appeal to the Bible as the basis of our position, then we should also point out that the concept of "the spirit of the law" is not found in the Bible. It is a man-made concept.

BFA