Liberals are Tolerant and Progressive?

[SolomonVII]

Isaiah 5:20

20Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil;
Who substitute darkness for light and light for darkness;
Who substitute bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter!

I see that a lot in our society today. When evil is tolerated, what is truly good becomes intolerable.

 

[fated]

You may see the next administration enacting legal protections for the Islamic faith, such as the anti-blasphemy laws that radical Muslims are now pushing through the UN.

It would be rather startling though to see a leftist adminstration anywhere enacting legislation to protect the fundamental principles of someone like Sarah Palin. Indeed, it would not be surprising to see hate laws being enacted to protect others from Christians such as she.

The faith of the conservative right and people like Palin is the ultimate source of contempt that the Left now has for us.

I certainly hope that you are proven wrong.

 

[CADude12]

MODESTO, October 13 /Christian Newswire/-- In a violent display of intolerance, an opponent of Proposition 8 attacked and seriously injured a Catholic parishioner who was volunteering on Sunday for the initiative to define marriage as between and a man and a woman.
http://www.calcatholic.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?id=5477a37a-561a-488a-875b-35a385186839

We've seen this before. They call themselves tolerant while using Brownshirt tactics. They get their instructions straight from Mao's Red Book.

This was all over the news in So Cal last week.

The homosexuals say it is intolerant/wrong/narrow minded to support Prop 8. And, a few of them showed us what intolerance is by beating up this pobrecito (poor fellow) from Modesto.

I think it bears repeating that the Christian intolerance of homosexuality has been marked by treating it like some super sexual sin, the most horrible. That, I believe, is because it is so strange to us. It seems to me the Bible doesn't treat it much differently than adultery, fornication, or any other of the "sexual sins" (1 Cor 6:9). Paul even lumps "idolatry" in there.

Nevertheless, it still is a sin, and the state should not affirm these kind of relationships. And it becomes even more important when the culture is shifting toward such an affirmation. -- Vote YES on Prop 8!

 

[fated]

This was all over the news in So Cal last week.

The homosexuals say it is intolerant/wrong/narrow minded to support Prop 8. And, a few of them showed us what intolerance is by beating up this pobrecito (poor fellow) from Modesto.

I think it bears repeating that the Christian intolerance of homosexuality has been marked by treating it like some super sexual sin, the most horrible. That, I believe, is because it is so strange to us. It seems to me the Bible doesn't treat it much differently than adultery, fornication, or any other of the "sexual sins" (1 Cor 6:9). Paul even lumps "idolatry" in there.

Nevertheless, it still is a sin, and the state should not affirm these kind of relationships. And it becomes even more important when the culture is shifting toward such an affirmation. -- Vote YES on Prop 8!

It isn't about butt sex, its about the nature of marriage itself. If people would stop using the pill the difference would be obvious. If marital law required a reason and carried justice in the event of a divorce, there would be no need to define marriage.

Marriage is societies way of attempting to get people to stay together for the benefit of their children. That is why gay folks are unfit for the system, because they can't have their own children... They get children from dramatic and desperate situations rather than through the conjugal embrace. It is preferable and good for society if the number and proportion of children born into these stable situations is maximized. It always has been.

 

[SolomonVII]

.....

I think it bears repeating that the Christian intolerance of homosexuality has been marked by treating it like some super sexual sin, the most horrible. That, I believe, is because it is so strange to us. It seems to me the Bible doesn't treat it much differently than adultery, fornication, or any other of the "sexual sins" (1 Cor 6:9). Paul even lumps "idolatry" in there.
....

Perhaps secular opposition to homosexuality is based on some sort or heterosexual repugnance. From the point of view of a Catholic Christian though, if homosexuality is looked upon as a more grave form or sexual sin, as Fated has already pretty much said, the objection lies in the idea that homosexual sexual acts are the last stop on the road that removes sexuality from any sense of being procreative. Even infertile couples at least support procreative marriage by supporting the on-flesh union in its form, if not in its function.

The strangeness of homosexual sex for many outside of the gay community may be instinctual or social, but the idea of marriage and procreation being integrally connected is not just Christian, but is the teaching of every religion and every society that has ever existed. Long before Christ, everybody understood what marriage meant. Even for societies that were tolerant of homosexual sex as recreation or cultic ritual recognized the difference between marriage and homosexual sex.

This is the arrogance of one generation that pretends that it is somehow wiser than all that have come before.
And as far as the idea of tolerance is concerned, the log really is not in the eye of the Christian this time.

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

It is perhaps important to make a distinction between liberal and leftists here. Those with liberal tendancies by and large are more willing to be tolerant. In the last thirty years however, the political arena has become radicalized by the far left who are willing to resort to any kind of tactics to achieve power. The liberal voice has become drowned out.

The far left seizing the political agenda can be seen on the campuses with aso many conservative guest speakers often having their speeches drowned out by the jeers and the animosity of the radical left. It can be seen in the Obama campaign where there was every attempt made to shut down Stanley Kurtz fro speaking on WGN extension 720. It can be seen in the very language that the left uses, where it has become all about personal smears against such people as ' Joe the plumber" or smearing people with labels of 'racist' and 'homophobe' rather than dealing with any authentic arguments.

The call for acceptance of diversity of people has been an accomplishment of liberals that conservatives have now by and large come to accept. Diversity of opinion on the other hand is now a conservative virtue that the radicalized left is more and more wiling to shout down and shut down at any cost.

This is not liberalism however. It is a betrayal of liberal values by a left that is becoming evermore fascist in both outlook and methodology.

QFT, because this is a very important point that some may have overlooked. There are still real liberals out there, tolerant liberals who believe in "liberal democracy", but Democratic politics has to a large degree been taken over by the radical leftists, who tend to be much less tolerant, much more 'ends justify the means'. Let's not become like them in mirror image. I'm not accusing anyone here of that, it's just a general warning about a dangerous and tempting pitfall.

 

[AnneSally]

They are not our neighbors, they are the enemy, the ones hostile to what we believe.

Who are "they"?

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

Who are "they"?

You know, THEM.

 

[WalksWithChrist]

To the OP, what can anyone say?

There's a lot of haters out there. And they aren't constrained to any particular set of ideals.

 

[Anglian]

... The current liberalized worldview we are all living under has its effect on all of us and not just those who have drank the leftist Kool-aid

My conservatism is not spin. It is genuine. It is not out of a sense of hatred of 'dispised' liberals that I disagree with the Left, but out of love for them. It is out of a conservative understanding that their ideals, when enacted in society, will cause great danger and harm not only just for us conservatives, but for themselves as well.

It is not against flesh and blood that I am fighting. Indeed, it is for flesh and blood people that I am opposing the dangerous mindset of the current Left. I have no doubt that many people form the left are loving and caring and compassionate and even enjoyable to hug. That does not mean that I embrace any of their ideas which I understand to be evil in effect, even if the people who hold such ideals intend no evil personally.
quote]
Dear Solomon,

As ever, an interesting post, and it gives us much to think about; the political Right contains the same spectrum as the Left - from those who will tolerate only what they approve, to those who take toleration to the point at which it becomes complicity.

The part in bold above is something to bear in mind constantly; the liberal mindset has taken hold in ways that effect, and influence, even those who consider themselves conservative, and, frankly, sometimes for the good. After all, the civil rights movement did not derive its impetus from the Right, and many of those who opposed it were on that part of the political spectrum.

Now, one could say that equal rights for all regardless of colour or creed is a liberal philosophy; but it does no harm and is productive, from a Christian point of view, of good. That is not, imo, true of that other great product of modern liberalism, abortion. So, for conservatives to accept the results of the civil rights movement is something we can do with no harm to our conscience (though I know some Orthodox who would pick me up sharply on the 'creed' part). The same, again imo, is not true if we were to accept abortion.

So, in a way, we need a proportionate response, which, as Christians (if not as conservatives) we can give. The Holy Scriptures are clear on the value of all life, as they are on the sinfulnes of certain types of behaviour. If standing up and saying this makes us 'conservative Christians' in the eyes of liberals, so be it. For me, it is simply abiding by the law of God and the teachings of my Church; it is just being a Christian.

peace,

Anglian

 

[Alpine]

Truth is that some of the most intolerant bigoted people are on the left. They only want free speech for ideas that they agree with. They often treat those they oppose with contempt. They show fascistic tendencies while calling their opponents fascists.

 

[PastorJim]

I once posted on a very liberal message board and was banned because I "talked about Jesus too much", when the truth is that I never did.

I said something in a thread that didn't have anything to do with God and somebody said, "Oh! You sound like one of those born agains!" (I didn't post as "Pastor"Jim there so they had no way of knowing, other than just guessing)

I said that I was and that was it. I never said anything about my religion, but no matter what I would say, they would find some way to tie religion into it to goad me into a fight.

I got a PM one day stating, "This a music board, not a religion board. You talk about Jesus too much. It's up to you whether or not you want to remain a part of this community but if you do, the religion talk stops now!"

I explained to him that I was there to talk about music and not religion and that I wasn't the one who made an issue of my religion.

The next day, I was banned.

Kind of hard to complain about that when there are people in other parts of the world dying for the Gospel, but that's my example of liberal "tolerance".

Mostly I was just disappointed because that was the only good music board I know of. Most people see my screen name and assume that I only listen to Southern Gospel.

 

[PastorJim]

Truth is that some of the most intolerant bigoted people are on the left. They only want free speech for ideas that they agree with. They often treat those they oppose with contempt. They show fascistic tendencies while calling their opponents fascists.

One of the funniest things I ever saw was a John Stossel special where he went to a college campus where there was a demonstration going on to talk about free speech and one of the leaders of the demonstration was telling him how much they value free speech and how that evil ol' Bush administration was trying to stop free speech.

Then, the minute they found out who he was, they all gathered around him and started chanting so that he couldn't speak.

Liberals are such hypocrites that you just have to laugh.

 

[WalksWithChrist]

Truth is that some of the most intolerant bigoted people are on the left. They only want free speech for ideas that they agree with. They often treat those they oppose with contempt. They show fascistic tendencies while calling their opponents fascists.

These folks need a lesson in manners. Rudeness/bad manners isn't restricted by ideology.

 

[WannaWitness]

I think all politicians have their problems, no matter what party they're from. They all need prayer.

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

One of the funniest things I ever saw was a John Stossel special where he went to a college campus where there was a demonstration going on to talk about free speech and one of the leaders of the demonstration was telling him how much they value free speech and how that evil ol' Bush administration was trying to stop free speech.

Then, the minute they found out who he was, they all gathered around him and started chanting so that he couldn't speak.

Liberals are such hypocrites that you just have to laugh.

And the funny thing is, John Stossel is so not a conservative! He's a libertarian, which is such a novelty for a news guy. He's just as apt to offend conservatives as he is liberals, but conservatives don't try to shout him down. I love him!

 

[PastorJim]

And the funny thing is, John Stossel is so not a conservative! He's a libertarian...

I hate to break this to you, but libertarians are conservatives.

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

I hate to break this to you, but libertarians are conservatives.

As a long-time activist on the libertarian right, that isn't exactly news to me, but it's only a partial truth. We have a lot in common with conservatives, and I would cheerfully embrace the label if today's conservatives were anything like my hero, Barry Goldwater... but they're not. All too often conservatives are enthusiasts for big government so long as it serves conservative ends, and that's a betrayal of the ideal.

 

[PastorJim]

All too often conservatives are enthusiasts for big government so long as it serves conservative ends, and that's a betrayal of the ideal.

Then, by definition, they are not conservatives.

 

[Angel4Truth]

I cant say I've ever met or even seen a conservative who advocates and who was for bigger government