Dinosaur footprints destroy flood geology.

[Chalnoth]

I can only post 3 to 5 post a day, I just use one finger.Thats all the time I care to give, I have allot of other things to do.. I am a little handycaped, My Crushed Right hand just don't work as well as It should.

Just fyi, there are keyboards available made for people with only one usable hand:
http://www.onehandedkeyboard.com/

The site also goes over methods of one-handed typing with standard keyboards.

 

[beamishboy]

I can only post 3 to 5 post a day, I just use one finger.Thats all the time I care to give, I have allot of other things to do.. I am a little handycaped, My Crushed Right hand just don't work as well as It should.

I am very sorry to hear that your crushed hand isn't working very well. That's the hand that got crushed by a forklift, right? You mentioned it once.

When I got booted from the choir recently because my voice "was becoming unstable", I pretended it was OK cos most of the other boys my age were already kicked out before me. But it was particularly painful for me because I was the soloist in many performances. I sang Mozart's famous Queen of the Night solo in a grand concert hall and had rave reviews that I sounded no different from some of the top soloists from the Vienna Boys' Choir who have sung the same piece and those of you who are familiar with the aria will know it's a very challenging piece.

I know I will never be able to sing that aria again. But I have to be realistic. We all have to grow up. No man, unless he's a eunuch, can sing that aria. It's only sung by women and boys. But it's still painful to have to be told that I can't even sing in the choir and we're not even talking about soloists.

These days, I concentrate only on my clarinet. I've just gone for an audition and am waiting for the result - I might have the chance to join an adults' orchestra.

It's difficult to describe the joy one gets when making music (whether by voice or by an instrument) in a choir or an orchestra. But I miss the solo performances. It's not really all pride. There is joy in giving my own interpretation to a piece which I think is how the composer might have wanted it. You can't do that if you're not singing or playing solo. I was told that if they accepted me in the adults' orchestra, they might want me to do a clarinet solo not because I'm that good but because the audience prefers to see a boy than an adult playing solo. They also tend to be so much more forgiving. Hehe.

What I'm trying to say is if we are incapacitated by some problem, there's always a way out. I've lost my voice but I can still use my breath to play the clarinet. For you, maybe a special keyboard might help.

 

[ChordatesLegacy]

Here’s a link to an excellent site, with large amounts of images of trace fossils from throughout the Mesozoic, which are all biblical flood deposits according to YEC.

But these fossils prove them wrong.

Dino tracks prove YEC wrong

 

[ChordatesLegacy]

This image is from the link above, it is full of trace fossils including burrows, mud cracks, root casts etc, all the things that would not be there if this was global flood deposits, again good evidence that the YEC biblical flood is wrong

 

[RobertByers]

Chordateslegacy
Why not? All these pictures make the case for sudden fossilization of a momment in time. These areas would of been "frozen' in place in great chunks by water/sediment pressure. In fact geology must say the same thing in order to account for their survival in rock. We just make it one event and in a rush. Why does it not seem more plausible that all sedimentary rock (almost0 and life within it was collected up or kept in place permantly by a single great earth movement. its all over the planet. why not see one event as doing a global job? It also fits with the biblical boundaries of Genesis.
The same process you and other geologists here have said couldn't make sediment into rock fast also made the prints of creatures and other stuff into rock fast. if we could prove sediment can be turned into rock fast then we will of also proved these living creatures etc details could be made into rock fast.

 

[Chalnoth]

Chordateslegacy
Why not? All these pictures make the case for sudden fossilization of a momment in time. These areas would of been "frozen' in place in great chunks by water/sediment pressure. In fact geology must say the same thing in order to account for their survival in rock. We just make it one event and in a rush. Why does it not seem more plausible that all sedimentary rock (almost0 and life within it was collected up or kept in place permantly by a single great earth movement. its all over the planet. why not see one event as doing a global job? It also fits with the biblical boundaries of Genesis.
The same process you and other geologists here have said couldn't make sediment into rock fast also made the prints of creatures and other stuff into rock fast. if we could prove sediment can be turned into rock fast then we will of also proved these living creatures etc details could be made into rock fast.

Okay, so, you have a layer with foot prints in it. Then below that, another one. How could that possibly be produced "suddenly"?

 

[ChordatesLegacy]

Rob Buers Wrote:

Chordateslegacy
Why not? All these pictures make the case for sudden fossilization of a momment in time.

No they do not, because according to you and other YEC these are flood deposits, i.e. they are Mesozoic sediments. Please explain how particular sediments can at the same time be biblical flood deposits and be full of terrestrial trace fossils including in-situ burrows, root and mud cracks.

If these sediments were flood deposits they would most defiantly not contain terrestrial in-situ fossils.

These areas would of been "frozen' in place in great chunks by water/sediment pressure.

So you are saying these sediments are not flood deposits, but are fossilised in-situ by overlying sediments and water from the flood, YES.

If that is the case all the Mesozoic sediments below this horizon are not flood deposits.

Also you have been told many times water does NOT compact sediments.

In some of the deepest parts of the ocean, at the bottom of the continental slope, a vast underwater plain can stretch for thousands of miles. While people can’t make their homes there, many other animals do. Can you spot any of these sea creatures in (A) living amidst the muddy sediment? At times, an avalanche of sand and mud rumbles down the continental slope and forms a thin layer. This underwater avalanche is called a turbidite. You can see many layers from ancient turbidities in (B

LINK

In fact geology must say the same thing in order to account for their survival in rock.

Geology and geologists say nothing of the kind; you are day dreaming again.


We just make it one event and in a rush.

No; you make it magical mysticism, which just doesn’t cut it with people who understand geological processes.

Why does it not seem more plausible that all sedimentary rock (almost0 and life within it was collected up or kept in place permantly by a single great earth movement.

Single great earth movements would not leave behind in-situ coals and palaeosols

The Great Dirt Bed is a well-known palaeosol (ancient soil) of rendzina (carbonate-rich) type. It is well seen at the Fossil Forest section and on the Isle of Portland, as in one of the photographs above. It occurs in the higher part of the Caps, the basal limestone of the Purbeck Formation that are characterised by stromatolites, pelletoidal and fine-grained oolitic limestones of lagoonal origin. The trees of the Fossil Forest and the Portland exposures were rooted in this soil.

LINK

You wOULD not find preserved paleosols in flood deposits and the geological record is full of them.

THERE IS NO EVIDENCE FOR THE FLOOD ANYWHERE.

its all over the planet. why not see one event as doing a global job? It also fits with the biblical boundaries of Genesis.

Because we are not predisposed to trying to fit everything into the context of a magical mystical Bronze Aged Test. We seek knowledge and truth and in these contexts the earth is 4.5 billion years old, Uniformiatrianism works perfectly, large igneous provinces are terrestrial, coal measures are in-situ and have roots beneath them, the list goes on and on.

THERE IS NO EVIDENCE FOR THE FLOOD ANYWHERE.

The same process you and other geologists here have said couldn't make sediment into rock fast also made the prints of creatures and other stuff into rock fast. if we could prove sediment can be turned into rock fast then we will of also proved these living creatures etc details could be made into rock fast.

Diagenesis of sediments is well understood and without exception the time periods needed for such processes to produce lithified materials (i.e. sediments to rock) far exceed anything you are suggesting as a time frame.


Again there is no evidence for a biblical flood; all you and your creed are doing is making up impossible paradigms for which this is absolutely no evidence.

 

[RobertByers]

Chordateslegacy
Here we go again. I don't understand why you separate flood deposits from in sutu etc.
When I refer to flood deposits I mean anything from the flood actions.
So entire areas could be moved about. I don't mean water picking up material and depositing like done today. I mean a great action from great pressurized water.
So a entire area of sediment/life/prints could be moved over and on top of a sediment collection from a few hours or days before.
Creationism just sees great movements as explaining all geology.
We welcome footprints as from a sudden event leading to its fossilization.
Thw whole planet shows this everywhere including the fact that 80% of the planet shows sedimentary rock from having been deposited by water. The other 20% volcanos interfered with.
geology (save post flood geology) is in fact all about the great flood year. Otherwise geology would be non existent save for post flood actions.

 

[ChordatesLegacy]

Rob Byers wrote.

Chordateslegacy
Here we go again.

Because educating the indoctrinated is extremely difficult.


I don't understand why you separate flood deposits from in sutu etc.

I am not separating anything; it is creationists who separate geology i.e.

1 Pre flood geology
2 Flood Geology
3 Post flood Geology

Enlighten me for once, give me the geological boundaries for creationist geology.



When I refer to flood deposits I mean anything from the flood actions.

There are no flood deposits, if you think there are, give us examples.

So entire areas could be moved about.

Entire areas are moved about, but the time scales are in millions of years.

I don't mean water picking up material and depositing like done today. I mean a great action from great pressurized water.

What great pressurized water, and we have already shown that if the oceans opened in a year or so, the energy released would melt the crust and boil the oceans away.

So a entire area of sediment/life/prints could be moved over and on top of a sediment collection from a few hours or days before.

Now you are being silly. The nearest things to what you are talking about are thrust faults, but the evidence of their movements are there for all to see. If what you are saying is true, then you should be able to show us the evidence.


TECTONIC FAULTING: Thrust fault along Interstate-70, Silverthorne --- Younger rocks on the very bottom of this picture have been thrust under older rocks and pushed west (left) for several miles. The fault line ascends slowly from the lower right edge of the picture to beyond the center where some folding of the layers at the fault contact can be seen.

LINK



Creationism just sees great movements as explaining all geology.

No; indoctrinated YEC just see great movements.

We welcome footprints as from a sudden event leading to its fossilization.

If they have terrestrial foot prints in them, and they can be found right through the Mesozoic sediments world wide, these sediments were also in terrestrial environments and cannot be flood deposits.

Thw whole planet shows this everywhere including the fact that 80% of the planet shows sedimentary rock from having been deposited by water.

So, two thirds of the Earth is covered by water.

The other 20% volcanos interfered with.
geology (save post flood geology) is in fact all about the great flood year.
To be honest, most the Earth’s surface is metamorphic with veneers of sedimentary rocks. Throughout the geological record there is terrestrial volcanic rocks, which erupted in terrestrial environments, no water, no flood.


Otherwise geology would be non existent save for post flood actions.


Now you are just being silly again, even you admit to pre flood geology. In fact ask any geologist that is not a fundamentalist Christian and you will get the same answer.

NO EVIDENCE FOR A GLOBAL FLOOD ANYWHERE IN THE GEOLOGICAL RECORD.

 

[AV1611VET]

NO EVIDENCE FOR A GLOBAL FLOOD ANYWHERE IN THE GEOLOGICAL RECORD.

Now ain't that a crying shame? Whose "fault" do you suppose that is?

 

[Tomk80]

Now ain't that a crying shame? Whose "fault" do you suppose that is?

Nobody's fault. It just never happened.

 

[Leonard]

Throughout the Mesozoic (Triassic, Jurassic and Cretaceous 250-56 ma) strata there are 10s of thousands of dinosaur tracks as well as tracks made by other creatures.

HOW CAN THIS BE, all these sediments are supposedly FLOOD DEPOSITS. Particularly in Britain where the Carboniferous is overlain by Mesozoic sediments, because creationists have already stated that the Carboniferous coal measures were formed from floating forests than sank, many time in the British coal fields case (of course this has been disproved a thousand times).

So if we believe the YEC, Britain was already a sunken Island by the time the Carboniferous was over, so how can you have dino footprints in sediments laid down on top of the Carboniferous, unless of course Britain was not cover by the flood.

Again YEC are wrong, their ideas are wrong, their geology is wrong, their religion is wrong.


Jurassic



Triassic





Cretaceous


All these footprints are in sediments which according to YEC show have been laid down well into the flood year.

YEC Wrong Again

Not only that: How did HUMAN footprints get mixed in with DINOSAUR footprints at Glenrose, Texas?

Waiting for a reasoned answer, as Creationists have answered the claims you bring up NUMEROUS TIMES, and you refuse to hear.

So here's YOUR opportunity to prove you're intellectually honest.

(PS: I've already been waiting 30 years for at least ONE of you to prove to be intellectually honest, so I don't REALLY expect anything like an intelligent response; it's just a rhetorical offer at this point!)

 

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

Not only that: How did HUMAN footprints get mixed in with DINOSAUR footprints at Glenrose, Texas?

Waiting for a reasoned answer, as Creationists have answered the claims you bring up NUMEROUS TIMES, and you refuse to hear.

So here's YOUR opportunity to prove you're intellectually honest.

(PS: I've already been waiting 30 years for at least ONE of you to prove to be intellectually honest, so I don't REALLY expect anything like an intelligent response; it's just a rhetorical offer at this point!)

The intellectually honest answer is that there are no human footprints mixed with the dinosaur footprints at Glenrose Texas. Even Answers in Genesis put this long refuted PRATT among their list of Arguments Creationists Should not use.

 

[ChordatesLegacy]

Leonad wrote:

Not only that: How did HUMAN footprints get mixed in with DINOSAUR footprints at Glenrose, Texas?

Man with hammer comes to mind.

More seriously; dinosaur footprints are found in the same horizons as dinosaur bones, dinosaur eggs etc.

Not a single large mammal (human size) has been found in the Mesozoic.

Homo sapiens are only found in sediments less than 200,000 years old.


If you have any references to scientific papers on this subject please post links.

 

[Tomk80]

Not only that: How did HUMAN footprints get mixed in with DINOSAUR footprints at Glenrose, Texas?

Ah, the Paluxy tracks. Long time since I've seen them brought up. They didn't find human footprints. The "human" footprints were not human, but were weathered dinosaur footprints. If you don't believe me, believe Answers in Genesis. On their page "arguments creationists should not use they state:

Some prominent creationist promoters of these tracks have long since withdrawn their support. Some of the allegedly human tracks may be artifacts of erosion of dinosaur tracks obscuring the claw marks. There is a need for properly documented research on the tracks before we would use them to argue the coexistence of humans and dinosaurs. However, there is much other evidence that dinosaurs and humans coexisted

Of course, with their last sentence they are just as wrong as you are with your dinosaur footprints.

Waiting for a reasoned answer, as Creationists have answered the claims you bring up NUMEROUS TIMES, and you refuse to hear.

So here's YOUR opportunity to prove you're intellectually honest.

(PS: I've already been waiting 30 years for at least ONE of you to prove to be intellectually honest, so I don't REALLY expect anything like an intelligent response; it's just a rhetorical offer at this point!)

If you have more questions about this, I will be happy to supply answers to them. Having provided you with an intellectually honest answer, I will await your admission of error in this respect.

Sincerely,

 

[Leonard]

OF COURSE! Anything that doesn't fit, just gets rejected out of hand. It must be very comforting to have your minds hermetically sealed against the polluting influences of the facts.....

 

[ChordatesLegacy]

OF COURSE! Anything that doesn't fit, just gets rejected out of hand. It must be very comforting to have your minds hermetically sealed against the polluting influences of the facts.....

Facts

After six years of analysis, fossil hunters in Africa have confirmed the discovery of the oldest fossilized remains of modern humans yet found -- portions of skulls belonging to people who lived 160,000 years ago.

The youngest-known dinosaur fossils so far are actually a set of hadrosaur tracks found by Lockley and Hunt (1995, p. 23) in a sandstone shelf only 37 cm (less than 15 inches) below the iridium layer near Ludlow, Colorado, in the Raton Formation 65 million years old


Humans and dinos are seperated by 65 million years.

 

[Tomk80]

OF COURSE! Anything that doesn't fit, just gets rejected out of hand. It must be very comforting to have your minds hermetically sealed against the polluting influences of the facts.....

Go back and read my post. Answers in Genesis, a young earth creationist organisation that believes dinosaurs and humans coexisted reject the paluxy tracks as evidence.

You didn't really read my post, did you? Not very intellectually honest, are you? I told you that you could ask questions about this, if you wanted more information. There are reasons people have arrived at the conclusion that those "human" footprints were weathered dinosaur tracks. Are you interested in them?

 

[AV1611VET]

Go back and read my post. Answers in Genesis, a young earth creationist organisation that believes dinosaurs and humans coexisted reject the paluxy tracks as evidence.

Do dinosaurs and humans co-exist today?

 

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

OF COURSE! Anything that doesn't fit, just gets rejected out of hand. It must be very comforting to have your minds hermetically sealed against the polluting influences of the facts.....

You have described Young Earth Creationism perfectly. Long ago the facts led creationists geologists who were looking for evidence of a global flood to conclude that there was none. I suggest you read the History of the Collapse of Flood and a Young Earth by evangelical Christian and former YEC Davis Young. Glen Kuban has a rather extensive site on the Paluxy Tracks with many details that explain why even most creationist group dismiss the idea that there are "man tracks" mixed with the dinosaur tracks at Paluxy.