Do you trust God or Man when it comes to the creation?

[The Barbarian]

We have Jesus' word on the Eucharist. We have His word on creation as well. Even YE creationists accept creation. The problem is they don't approve of the way He did it.

So if young Earth people can believe that it is exactly as God said it happened...

It's not that they can't. It's that they don't. They prefer the modern revision called YE creationism.

Fortunately, unless they make an idol of their new doctrine, it won't harm their chances of salvation.

 

[dwb001]

Nevertheless, we do not call moonrise at night, "morning." Your new excuse won't work, either.

Not using excuses. Just stating scientific truths.

 

[dwb001]

We have Jesus' word on the Eucharist. We have His word on creation as well. Even YE creationists accept creation. The problem is they don't approve of the way He did it.


It's not that they can't. It's that they don't. They prefer the modern revision called YE creationism.

Fortunately, unless they make an idol of their new doctrine, it won't harm their chances of salvation.

Kind of like people making an idol of the Eucharist. Saying it is the actual body of Christ.

What modern revision of young Earth creationism? Please state the old YE perspective and the new YE perspective.

 

[The Barbarian]

Kind of like people making an idol of the Eucharist.

Jesus says it's His body and blood. It's not an idol if it really is Him. I get that some people say that He was mistaken when He told His disciples that it was His body and blood. Some think He's joking.

I believe what He says is true.

 

[d taylor]

I’ve told you repeatedly that I don’t teach a works based salvation. You’re just making false accusations against me as usual. I’ve explained to you that I teach that salvation is the result of faith and love and that it is not our works that is taken into consideration at our judgment but our love that is taken into consideration. Why do you persist in making false accusations against me?

-
​

You stated a few weeks back that it takes more than faith to receive Eternal Life salvation. You also state people can lose their Eternal Life salvation and this is characteristic of a works based belief.

 

[BNR32FAN]

-
​

You stated a few weeks back that it takes more than faith to receive Eternal Life salvation. You also state people can lose their Eternal Life salvation and this is characteristic of a works based belief.

And what did I say was required for salvation? Faith and what?

 

[The Barbarian]

What modern revision of young Earth creationism? Please state the old YE perspective

Read De Genesi ad Litteram by St. Augustine. He thought the world was a few thousand years old, not having access to evidence of it's age. But he was quite aware that the "days" of Genesis were not literal 24-hour days. YE creationism was invented by an Adventist woman in the early 20th century.

The expanded edition covers the history of creationism from the time of Charles Darwin to 2006. It first describes early opposition during Darwin's lifetime, then George Frederick Wright's conversion from Christian Darwinist to Fundamentalist opponent and how creationism influenced the Fundamentalist–Modernist Controversy and the rise of prominent populist creationists such as William Jennings Bryan. It then narrates the careers of two early, self-taught, 'scientific' creationists; the old Earth creationist Harry Rimmer, and the young Earth flood geologist George McCready Price.

It then chronicles the growth of creationist organisations in the mid 20th century, such as the Religion and Science Association, the Deluge Geology Society, the Evolution Protest Movement (in the United Kingdom), and the American Scientific Affiliation (ASA), the latter moving almost immediately in the direction of theistic evolution.

The book then narrates the young Earth creationist backlash against the ASA's modernism, with Henry M. Morris and John C. Whitcomb, Jr.'s publication of The Genesis Flood (1961) and the forming of the Creation Research Society, which created the creation science movement. It continues with Morris' founding of the Institute for Creation Research and the Seventh-day Adventist Church's founding of the Geoscience Research Institute.

The Creationists - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Even as late as the Scopes Trial, most creationists were OE creationists.

"You have given considerable study to the Bible, haven't you, Mr. Bryan?"
"Yes, sir; I have tried to ... But, of course, I have studied it more as I have become older than when I was a boy."
"Do you claim then that everything in the Bible should be literally interpreted?"
"I believe everything in the Bible should be accepted as it is given there ..."
Darrow continued to question Bryan on the actuality of Jonah and the whale, Joshua's making the sun stand still and the Tower of Babel, as Bryan began to have more difficulty answering.
Q: "Do you think the earth was made in six days?"
A: "Not six days of 24 hours ... My impression is they were periods ..."
Q: "Now, if you call those periods, they may have been a very long time?"
A: "They might have been."
Q: "The creation might have been going on for a very long time?"
A: "It might have continued for millions of years ..."
Transcript of Clarence Darrow's testimony as a witness for the creationist side.

 

[dwb001]

Jesus says it's His body and blood. It's not an idol if it really is Him. I get that some people say that He was mistaken when He told His disciples that it was His body and blood. Some think He's joking.

I believe what He says is true.

God said He made the Earth in 6 days.

 

[The Barbarian]

You stated a few weeks back that it takes more than faith to receive Eternal Life salvation. You also state people can lose their Eternal Life salvation and this is characteristic of a works based belief.

God gives you the freedom to be with Him or not. You do not lose that freedom if you accept Him. You remain free to reject Him after that, if that's what you want.

 

[dwb001]

Read De Genesi ad Litteram by St. Augustine. He thought the world was a few thousand years old, not having access to evidence of it's age. But he was quite aware that the "days" of Genesis were not literal 24-hour days. YE creationism was invented by an Adventist woman in the early 20th century.

The expanded edition covers the history of creationism from the time of Charles Darwin to 2006. It first describes early opposition during Darwin's lifetime, then George Frederick Wright's conversion from Christian Darwinist to Fundamentalist opponent and how creationism influenced the Fundamentalist–Modernist Controversy and the rise of prominent populist creationists such as William Jennings Bryan. It then narrates the careers of two early, self-taught, 'scientific' creationists; the old Earth creationist Harry Rimmer, and the young Earth flood geologist George McCready Price.

It then chronicles the growth of creationist organisations in the mid 20th century, such as the Religion and Science Association, the Deluge Geology Society, the Evolution Protest Movement (in the United Kingdom), and the American Scientific Affiliation (ASA), the latter moving almost immediately in the direction of theistic evolution.

The book then narrates the young Earth creationist backlash against the ASA's modernism, with Henry M. Morris and John C. Whitcomb, Jr.'s publication of The Genesis Flood (1961) and the forming of the Creation Research Society, which created the creation science movement. It continues with Morris' founding of the Institute for Creation Research and the Seventh-day Adventist Church's founding of the Geoscience Research Institute.

The Creationists - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Even as late as the Scopes Trial, most creationists were OE creationists.

"You have given considerable study to the Bible, haven't you, Mr. Bryan?"
"Yes, sir; I have tried to ... But, of course, I have studied it more as I have become older than when I was a boy."
"Do you claim then that everything in the Bible should be literally interpreted?"
"I believe everything in the Bible should be accepted as it is given there ..."
Darrow continued to question Bryan on the actuality of Jonah and the whale, Joshua's making the sun stand still and the Tower of Babel, as Bryan began to have more difficulty answering.
Q: "Do you think the earth was made in six days?"
A: "Not six days of 24 hours ... My impression is they were periods ..."
Q: "Now, if you call those periods, they may have been a very long time?"
A: "They might have been."
Q: "The creation might have been going on for a very long time?"
A: "It might have continued for millions of years ..."
Transcript of Clarence Darrow's testimony as a witness for the creationist side.

Funny that the person who invented the idea never talked to me. I got it out of my science lessons and the Bible.

 

[The Barbarian]

God said He made the Earth in 6 days.

Well, let's take a look...

Genesis 2:4 These are the generations of the heaven and the earth, when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the heaven and the earth:

Here, scripture says He did it in one day. So which is it? Six or one? If it's a literal history, one of these must be false. So which one?

 

[dwb001]

Well, let's take a look...

Genesis 2:4 These are the generations of the heaven and the earth, when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the heaven and the earth:

Here, scripture says He did it in one day. So which is it? Six or one? If it's a literal history, one of these must be false. So which one?

Hey you are the one requiring a litteral reading of the Bible. So you tell me.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Read De Genesi ad Litteram by St. Augustine. He thought the world was a few thousand years old, not having access to evidence of it's age. But he was quite aware that the "days" of Genesis were not literal 24-hour days. YE creationism was invented by an Adventist woman in the early 20th century.

The expanded edition covers the history of creationism from the time of Charles Darwin to 2006. It first describes early opposition during Darwin's lifetime, then George Frederick Wright's conversion from Christian Darwinist to Fundamentalist opponent and how creationism influenced the Fundamentalist–Modernist Controversy and the rise of prominent populist creationists such as William Jennings Bryan. It then narrates the careers of two early, self-taught, 'scientific' creationists; the old Earth creationist Harry Rimmer, and the young Earth flood geologist George McCready Price.

It then chronicles the growth of creationist organisations in the mid 20th century, such as the Religion and Science Association, the Deluge Geology Society, the Evolution Protest Movement (in the United Kingdom), and the American Scientific Affiliation (ASA), the latter moving almost immediately in the direction of theistic evolution.

The book then narrates the young Earth creationist backlash against the ASA's modernism, with Henry M. Morris and John C. Whitcomb, Jr.'s publication of The Genesis Flood (1961) and the forming of the Creation Research Society, which created the creation science movement. It continues with Morris' founding of the Institute for Creation Research and the Seventh-day Adventist Church's founding of the Geoscience Research Institute.

The Creationists - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Even as late as the Scopes Trial, most creationists were OE creationists.

"You have given considerable study to the Bible, haven't you, Mr. Bryan?"
"Yes, sir; I have tried to ... But, of course, I have studied it more as I have become older than when I was a boy."
"Do you claim then that everything in the Bible should be literally interpreted?"
"I believe everything in the Bible should be accepted as it is given there ..."
Darrow continued to question Bryan on the actuality of Jonah and the whale, Joshua's making the sun stand still and the Tower of Babel, as Bryan began to have more difficulty answering.
Q: "Do you think the earth was made in six days?"
A: "Not six days of 24 hours ... My impression is they were periods ..."
Q: "Now, if you call those periods, they may have been a very long time?"
A: "They might have been."
Q: "The creation might have been going on for a very long time?"
A: "It might have continued for millions of years ..."
Transcript of Clarence Darrow's testimony as a witness for the creationist side.

The early church writers were divided on this subject. Some believed in a new earth, some believed in an old earth, and some even believed in an instantaneous creation. Your claim that YEC originated from Ellen White is incorrect.

Theophilus of Antioch​

“On the fourth day the luminaries came into existence. Since God has foreknowledge, he understood the nonsense of the foolish philosophers who were going to say that the things produced on earth come from the stars, so that they might set God aside. In order therefore that the truth might be demonstrated, plants and seeds came into existence before the stars. For what comes into existence later cannot cause what is prior to it” (To Autolycus 2:15 [A.D. 181]).

“All the years from the creation of the world [to Theophilus’ day] amount to a total of 5,698 years and the odd months and days. . . . f even a chronological error has been committed by us, for example, of 50 or 100 or even 200 years, yet [there have] not [been] the thousands and tens of thousands, as Plato and Apollonius and other mendacious authors have hitherto written” (ibid., 3:28–29).

Basil The Great​

“‘And there was evening and morning, one day.’ Why did he say ‘one’ and not ‘first’? . . . He said ‘one’ because he was defining the measure of day and night . . . since twenty-four hours fill up the interval of one day” (The Six Days Work 1:1–2 [A.D. 370]).

Ambrose of Milan​

“Scripture established a law that twenty-four hours, including both day and night, should be given the name of day only, as if one were to say the length of one day is twenty-four hours in extent. . . . The nights in this reckoning are considered to be component parts of the days that are counted. Therefore, just as there is a single revolution of time, so there is but one day. There are many who call even a week one day, because it returns to itself, just as one day does, and one might say seven times revolves back on itself” (Hexaemeron [A.D. 393])

 

[The Barbarian]

God said He made the Earth in 6 days.

Except where it says it was in one day:
Genesis 2:4 These are the generations of the heaven and the earth, when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the heaven and the earth:

Of course, if this is a parable, it's not meant to be literally interpreted. And if so, then there's no conflict between the six days and the one day account.

Your claim that YEC originated from Ellen White is incorrect.

YEC is more than a literal revision of Genesis. It's also the addition of many other ideas not found in Genesis.

 

[The Barbarian]

Hey you are the one requiring a litteral reading of the Bible. So you tell me.

I'm just pointing out that your six days are directly contradicted by Genesis 2 which says it was one day. You tell me which one is wrong.

 

[dwb001]

Except where it says it was in one day:
Genesis 2:4 These are the generations of the heaven and the earth, when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the heaven and the earth:

Of course, if this is a parable, it's not meant to be literally interpreted. And if so, then there's no conflict between the six days and the one day account.

YEC is more than a literal revision of Genesis. It's also the addition of many other ideas not found in Genesis.

Like what?
You keep saying things like this but never explain what you mean.

 

[dwb001]

I'm just pointing out that your six days are directly contradicted by Genesis 2 which says it was one day. You tell me which one is wrong.

That would be your job as you pointed it out.

I have a non contradiction answer and I am sure you do as well.

 

[The Barbarian]

I'm just pointing out that your six days are directly contradicted by Genesis 2 which says it was one day. You tell me which one is wrong.

That would be your job as you pointed it out.

Nope. I accept that the "days" are figurative and not literal.

have a non contradiction answer

But you can't show it to us? I think I know why.

 

[dwb001]

I'm just pointing out that your six days are directly contradicted by Genesis 2 which says it was one day. You tell me which one is wrong.

Nope. I accept that the "days" are figurative and not literal.

But you can't show it to us? I think I know why.

Then say why

 

[The Barbarian]

But you can't show it to us? I think I know why.

Then say why

Let's get your answer first. Or you can confirm expectations. Up to you.