Pro-Lifers Read.

[Trashionista]

Dear Quirk,
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The comparison is not in the nature of the acts but in the understanding that both are wrong. Whether something is right or wrong depends on what people believe and therefore there are different understandings to what is right and wrong.

But as someone with a Christian icon who are you arguing for the religious or the secular?

Its a secular issue as much as a religious issue.

A religious or faithful woman doesn't have to get it done. A woman who is perhaps more secular in her viewpoints who has no qualms with getting it done... I'm not going to stop her. Its not my body.

 

[Trashionista]

It's not about whether it is always a bad decision, I was pointing out that most all abortions occur due to some sort of worldly and superficial reason, in comparison.

Because people put their beliefs into laws. I believe abortion is wrong, whats wrong with me applying that? Just because I live in a secular humanist society does not mean I have to embrace it's ideals. I was against abortion before I even started studying the bible, and I have seen first-hand the terrible aftermath that has come of it. I reference religion in this, however, because people involved in this disucssion are claiming Christianity, yet speaking against its most basic principles.

And its not just a Christian issue for one thing. It has to be looked at from the secular POV as not everyone is Christian.

And as I'm not in a theocracy as far as I know, I don't see why a state shouldn't be allowed to have a more secular view. And provide a service that occurs in the secular world.

And do you have any real stats to back up your "superficial" claim? Besides your slightly biased experiences.

 

[Jet_A_Jockey]

I don't believe God would approve of abortions.
I would not choose to undergo one.
However, you cannot apply that one singular view to the legal system.
People who feel the way I do, will choose not to.
But I feel if a woman wants it, she has that right - to have it done in a safe manner under basic, government standards.

I'm glad you don't think God approves of abortion, at least we can agree on that.

I don't see what is so unbelievably difficult to understand in that viewpoint, but there you have it.

Because your view of civil laws undermines your spiritual beliefs. If you are in Christ, then you care how God feels, and you do your best to emanate that Light. So that being said, if Christ is in your person, then He is also in your decisions, in your views, and in your everything. As Christians we see that abortion always ends in the death of a creation that was given to us by our Creator. There is no way I can look at that and say it is all right for anyone to undergo it, regardless of what or who they worship.

 

[Jet_A_Jockey]

And its not just a Christian issue for one thing. It has to be looked at from the secular POV as not everyone is Christian.

If I die and stand before a secular god for judgement, at that point I'll begin to care about the secular POV on the subject of killing. When the subject is life and death, a Christian perspective is just as good as a secular one. If we were arguing over putting a mandatory 'tithe' tax in place, then it'd be a different story. This is a core moral issue about the preservation of life, you'd think the secular view would actually care. They probably would if it didn't temporarily 'erase' their problems.

And do you have any real stats to back up your "superficial" claim? Besides your slightly biased experiences.

You need stats to find out how many women have abortions for superficial reasons? First let me define what I believe 'superficial' to be. Anything short of a life and death situation, and cases of sexual assault. And even with those I don't agree that abortions are the best way to go. Death to a life does not erase the death put upon someone's spirit.

How many women do you think have abortions because of inconvenience? Not ready for a kid yet? Not settled in your career yet? Not married yet? Haven't seen the guy since? Afraid to tell your parents?
Abortion sure looks like a nice ticket out, doesn't it?

 

[Phinehas2]

Dear Quirk,

Its a secular issue as much as a religious issue.

According to the secular but not for Christians who believe Christ died for all to make the way to salvation so that none may perish. Romans 5:12-21, 2 Peter 3:9, John 3:16

A religious or faithful woman doesn't have to get it done. A woman who is perhaps more secular in her viewpoints who has no qualms with getting it done... I'm not going to stop her. Its not my body.

But I am going to try and persuade here even from a secular point of view, there are secular non-Christians who are against abortion you know.

And its not just a Christian issue for one thing. It has to be looked at from the secular POV as not everyone is Christian.

It has to be looked at from a Christian pov as well as not everyone is secular, it is a democracy so citizens who are Christian can have their say.

 

[Trashionista]

Dear Quirk,
According to the secular but not for Christians who believe Christ died for all to make the way to salvation so that none may perish. Romans 5:12-21, 2 Peter 3:9, John 3:16

But I am going to try and persuade here even from a secular point of view, there are secular non-Christians who are against abortion you know.

It has to be looked at from a Christian pov as well as not everyone is secular, it is a democracy so citizens who are Christian can have their say.

And its wrong to just promote that Christian view.

The secular view, I'd say, is a lot more unbiased.

 

[Trashionista]

If I die and stand before a secular god for judgement, at that point I'll begin to care about the secular POV on the subject of killing. When the subject is life and death, a Christian perspective is just as good as a secular one. If we were arguing over putting a mandatory 'tithe' tax in place, then it'd be a different story. This is a core moral issue about the preservation of life, you'd think the secular view would actually care. They probably would if it didn't temporarily 'erase' their problems.





You need stats to find out how many women have abortions for superficial reasons? First let me define what I believe 'superficial' to be. Anything short of a life and death situation, and cases of sexual assault. And even with those I don't agree that abortions are the best way to go. Death to a life does not erase the death put upon someone's spirit.

How many women do you think have abortions because of inconvenience? Not ready for a kid yet? Not settled in your career yet? Not married yet? Haven't seen the guy since? Afraid to tell your parents?
Abortion sure looks like a nice ticket out, doesn't it?

How is inconveinience a "superficial" reason? Sure, its a superficial reason in YOUR view, but is it for all? Clearly not.

And its not a core moral issue. Its a procedure. It brings about a response that may involve moral issues, but it doesn't involve morality in all viewpoints.

I wouldn't choose to have an abortion. It would go againt MY morals. But I still support its legality. It doesn't make the action itself immoral in all situations - its just an immoral action for those who wouldn't choose it.

I certainly don't see its legality or illegality as a moral issue. Whether you choose to undergo that procedure or not is a moral decision, yes. But supporting its legality? That doesn't involve my moral feelins about the issue.

 

[Trashionista]

I'm glad you don't think God approves of abortion, at least we can agree on that.

Because your view of civil laws undermines your spiritual beliefs. If you are in Christ, then you care how God feels, and you do your best to emanate that Light. So that being said, if Christ is in your person, then He is also in your decisions, in your views, and in your everything. As Christians we see that abortion always ends in the death of a creation that was given to us by our Creator. There is no way I can look at that and say it is all right for anyone to undergo it, regardless of what or who they worship.

My feelings are my own.
Why should the government just be representing my spiritual views?
I wouldn't have an abortion. Therefore, that procedure is NOT in place because I need it.
But why can't it be in place for those who need it?

 

[Jet_A_Jockey]

How is inconveinience a "superficial" reason? Sure, its a superficial reason in YOUR view, but is it for all? Clearly not.

It is for anyone who believes that life is a precious thing.

And its not a core moral issue. Its a procedure. It brings about a response that may involve moral issues, but it doesn't involve morality in all viewpoints.

Call it a procedure all you want, its a procedure that kills. Changing the terminology may have aesthetic value, but the outcome does not change.

I wouldn't choose to have an abortion. It would go againt MY morals. But I still support its legality. It doesn't make the action itself immoral in all situations - its just an immoral action for those who wouldn't choose it.

Why does it go against your morals? If something goes against your morals, why would you support its legality?

I certainly don't see its legality or illegality as a moral issue. Whether you choose to undergo that procedure or not is a moral decision, yes. But supporting its legality? That doesn't involve my moral feelins about the issue.

yes it does. In a life where we are actually concerned about God, don't you think we should also be concerned (morally) about our choices?

 

[Trashionista]

It is for anyone who believes that life is a precious thing.
Call it a procedure all you want, its a procedure that kills. Changing the terminology may have aesthetic value, but the outcome does not change.
Why does it go against your morals? If something goes against your morals, why would you support its legality?

yes it does. In a life where we are actually concerned about God, don't you think we should also be concerned (morally) about our choices?

Ok. I really don't think you're actually reading my responses, so I'm just going to copy and paste. As you're just asking me the same questions over and over again in different ways, without actually answering mine:

My feelings are my own.
Why should the government just be representing my spiritual views?
I wouldn't have an abortion. Therefore, that procedure is NOT in place because I need it.
But why can't it be in place for those who need it?

 

[Jet_A_Jockey]

Ok. I really don't think you're actually reading my responses, so I'm just going to copy and paste. As you're just asking me the same questions over and over again in different ways, without actually answering mine:

I read your responses.

And to answer your question. The same reason why infanticide shouldn't be in place for those who need it.

The difference we have here is I believe that killing a life is a bad thing. I'm not God, and I cannot make the determination of whether there is such a thing as a justifiable abortion. Seeing as how nearly all abortions performed are done for less serious reasons than a life and death choice (for the mother), what would lead you to believe that allowing them is a good thing?

It's no different than lying. Most of the time, people lie for very superficial reasons. Is it possible that someone must lie to save a life? sure. Does that mean that lying is no longer a sin because of that extreme circumstance? no.

 

[Trashionista]

I read your responses.

And to answer your question. The same reason why infanticide shouldn't be in place for those who need it.

The difference we have here is I believe that killing a life is a bad thing. I'm not God, and I cannot make the determination of whether there is such a thing as a justifiable abortion. Seeing as how nearly all abortions performed are done for less serious reasons than a life and death choice (for the mother), what would lead you to believe that allowing them is a good thing?

It's no different than lying. Most of the time, people lie for very superficial reasons. Is it possible that someone must lie to save a life? sure. Does that mean that lying is no longer a sin because of that extreme circumstance? no.

Again, you consider these reasons to be superficial.

I highly doubt if you were a 22 year old female, in the precarious position of weighing abortion as a decision, you'd blow all these reasons off as "superficial".

 

[Jet_A_Jockey]

Again, you consider these reasons to be superficial.

I highly doubt if you were a 22 year old female, in the precarious position of weighing abortion as a decision, you'd blow all these reasons off as "superficial".

I'm using the word 'superficial' from a spiritual point of view. Our lives here are short, and but a small piece of our existence. Our careers, relationships, and the like are all superficial in comparison to God.

Of course, everyone has their own opinion of what is superficial. Some people may have a deep love for their car, or house, or career, so much so that it is a very serious thing to them. But honestly, what, or who, are we supposed to be worshiping?

 

[Trashionista]

I'm using the word 'superficial' from a spiritual point of view. Our lives here are short, and but a small piece of our existence. Our careers, relationships, and the like are all superficial in comparison to God.

Of course, everyone has their own opinion of what is superficial. Some people may have a deep love for their car, or house, or career, so much so that it is a very serious thing to them. But honestly, what, or who, are we supposed to be worshiping?

And if one worships God, they don't get an abortion.

One who isn't a member of a faith or what have you, they don't get an abortion.

 

[Phinehas2]

Dear Quirk,

And its wrong to just promote that Christian view.

The secular view, I'd say, is a lot more unbiased.

Then you follow the secular and I will follow God. As I said on the other thread if one believes Jesus Christ and His testimony is the truth it is exactly what one should base one’s opinion on because it is God’s opinion. Sorry but as a Christian I have ultimate faith in Jesus Christ according to His Biblical testimony, not a human secular opinion.

 

[Jet_A_Jockey]

And if one worships God, they don't get an abortion.

One who isn't a member of a faith or what have you, they don't get an abortion.

Forgive me, i don't quite understand what you are trying to say here.

 

[Trashionista]

Forgive me, i don't quite understand what you are trying to say here.

Its plain as day...

A person who doesn't believe abortion to be wrong will choose to get one or consider getting one.

A person who believes it compromises the tenets of their faith will choose not to get one.

So, I doubt you're really reading what I've responded with. As its pretty obvious.

 

[Trashionista]

Forgive me, i don't quite understand what you are trying to say here.

Its plain as day...

A person who doesn't believe abortion to be wrong will choose to get one or consider getting one.

A person who believes it compromises the tenets of their faith will choose not to get one.

So, I doubt you're really reading what I've responded with. As its pretty obvious.

 

[Trashionista]

Dear Quirk,
Then you follow the secular and I will follow God. As I said on the other thread if one believes Jesus Christ and His testimony is the truth it is exactly what one should base one’s opinion on because it is God’s opinion. Sorry but as a Christian I have ultimate faith in Jesus Christ according to His Biblical testimony, not a human secular opinion.

Pride in being biased is rather warped to me, but fine.

Agree to disagree then.

 

[Trashionista]

Dear Quirk,
Then you follow the secular and I will follow God. As I said on the other thread if one believes Jesus Christ and His testimony is the truth it is exactly what one should base one’s opinion on because it is God’s opinion. Sorry but as a Christian I have ultimate faith in Jesus Christ according to His Biblical testimony, not a human secular opinion.

Pride in being biased is rather warped to me, but fine.

Agree to disagree then.