Pro-Lifers Read.

[-~Truth_N_Trust~-]

Actually I would say that sometimes not being born is the best thing that could happen to a baby. It is a sad but true fact that some people are born into horrible lives that likely wish their parents had never chosen to have them. Life really sucks sometimes it is not always some wonderful blessing to be born.

I'm sorry, that argument irks me!

You are taking away that life's choice to decide for themselves. Plenty of people turn out fine from a bad childhood, plenty of people who 'have it all' still can turn out bad. If the debate is 'quality of life', then that opens up a very dangerous can of worms...

 

[Calliso]

I agree but still will never be convinced abortion should ever be an option.

I'm sorry, that argument irks me!

You are taking away that life's choice to decide for themselves. Plenty of people turn out fine from a bad childhood, plenty of people who 'have it all' still can turn out bad. If the debate is 'quality of life', then that opens up a very dangerous can of worms...

Aye that is true I am certainly not trying to say that because they will have a bad childhood that it means that they SHOULD be aborted. Just that being born isn;t always a huge favor to the one being born. But that sometimes it is a huge favor to her future children if a woman gets her life together and so on before bringing a life into the world.

 

[-~Truth_N_Trust~-]

Aye that is true I am certainly not trying to say that because they will have a bad childhood that it means that they SHOULD be aborted. Just that being born isn;t always a huge favor to the one being born. But that sometimes it is a huge favor to her future children if a woman gets her life together and so on before bringing a life into the world.

sure, she has 9 whole months!

 

[Calliso]

sure, she has 9 whole months!

Aye but you forget she is going to be pretty handicapped for much of that 9 monthes. It is pretty hard to get a good job and have the energy to get your life in order when your feeling sick and miserable for most of that time I would imagine.

 

[Trashionista]

whatever helps you sleep at night.
Yea, usually they are too depressed to do anything, or too drugged up from anti-depressants.

And that is one view of post-abortion.
It doesn't represent the entire view.

Who says a life is less important than a case of potential abuse? Does a person who grows up in a same-sex household possibly go on to be gay themselves? Just like with abortions, the ultimate responsibility for one's actions lies with the person committing them.

Yes, but which is the bigger risk to the population?

How many cases - just in the media - involve men or women who were abused themselves, who turn to become the abuser? Now, contrast that to the amount of women who after abortion go on rampages.

Which presents the bigger risk?

Yeah, what kind of God would allow for your career goals to be interfered with?

And what does my career [or future career] have to do with abortion? I haven't talked about my career plans in this thread at all.

So, that comment is completely out of left-field.

 

[MissLady]

Aye but you forget she is going to be pretty handicapped for much of that 9 monthes. It is pretty hard to get a good job and have the energy to get your life in order when your feeling sick and miserable for most of that time I would imagine.

A lot of women actually DON'T have morning sickness and are in fact healthier during pregnancy than at any other point in their lives. And sometimes the baby is actually a good things for the woman's health. Yes my mother as deathly ill when carrying me but one doctor actually told her that had she not been pregnant she would have likely been in worse shape. I also saw on a TV show where a woman's liver was enlarging and failing, they couldn't figure out why she wasn't in a coma yet...they delivered her baby early and turned out the baby's liver had grown to compensate for the mom's failing liver. In effect saving her mother's life.

 

[MissLady]

And what does my career [or future career] have to do with abortion? I haven't talked about my career plans in this thread at all.

So, that comment is completely out of left-field.

I think he was referring to all the posts about a woman being unable to keep or get a job while pregnant. I don't it was a personal attack on you, but I could be wrong.

 

[SolomonVII]

...
How many cases - just in the media - involve men or women who were abused themselves, who turn to become the abuser? Now, contrast that to the amount of women who after abortion go on rampages.

Which presents the bigger risk?

Those that live near graveyards have the most peaceful neighbours.

 

[Calliso]

A lot of women actually DON'T have morning sickness and are in fact healthier during pregnancy than at any other point in their lives. And sometimes the baby is actually a good things for the woman's health. Yes my mother as deathly ill when carrying me but one doctor actually told her that had she not been pregnant she would have likely been in worse shape. I also saw on a TV show where a woman's liver was enlarging and failing, they couldn't figure out why she wasn't in a coma yet...they delivered her baby early and turned out the baby's liver had grown to compensate for the mom's failing liver. In effect saving her mother's life.

Wow to be honest I have never actually heard that some people actually feel better from pregnancy. I have heard that at best you might only get very mild symptoms but that most people at least get very fatiqued and that morning sickness is very common. It does seem kinda weird though *not saying I donlt believe it though* because basically the whole time it is in the womb the fetus is basically living off the mother using her bodies resources to grow. But then there is that liver thing you posted which might sort of explain how that sort of thing could happen.

 

[MissLady]

^^^ I personally know some women who were sick as a dog through most of their pregnancy, others who were sick a few times and nothing more, and some who honestly felt better during pregnancy than they ever did before or after once the baby is born.

I also remembered another story of baby saving mom. A woman cut her hand and got that flesh-eating thing...somehow or another the pregnancy prevented it from being as bad as it could have gotten. I don't recall the details cause it was so long ago just that the baby was credited with saving her life.

ETA: Also because of mom and baby being connected I have heard of cases where something was wrong with the baby that was only discovered because of symptoms that MOM had.

So knowing what I personally know of babies helping moms that's another reason I get so irate over the suggestion a sick pregnant woman abort...cause of the ASSUMPTION the baby will make her worse. Is it possible? Certainly. But it's not a guarantee.

 

[-~Truth_N_Trust~-]

Aye but you forget she is going to be pretty handicapped for much of that 9 monthes. It is pretty hard to get a good job and have the energy to get your life in order when your feeling sick and miserable for most of that time I would imagine.

I worked fulltime until 8mths pregnant with my first. My friend is due in 2 weeks and was very sick for most of the time. She still worked. You deal with it. We moved house when i was 7 months pg, getting all that in order. It can be done. And to me these are merely excuses for making that choice.

 

[SolomonVII]

As far as moods go and if feeling good are the issue, I wish my wife was always pregnant. She was just so much easier to get along with when she was pregnant.

Not that her pregnancies didn't have the usual discomforts and even a few more, I am sure, but compared to her happiness, there was no real comparison.

 

[Calliso]

I worked fulltime until 8mths pregnant with my first. My friend is due in 2 weeks and was very sick for most of the time. She still worked. You deal with it. We moved house when i was 7 months pg, getting all that in order. It can be done. And to me these are merely excuses for making that choice.

Yeah I have thought about your response for awhile and you do make a good point. People should certainly try their best. I guess it would have been better to say that realistically they MIGHT not be able to utilize the whole nine monthes. But alot depends on just how messed up their life is in the first place. For instance a person with a job and a place to live is miles and miles ahead of someone doing drugs who may be homeless and jobless. And it always depends whether or not you have help. Some people will be doing it all on their own. Some will have help. But aye you are right perhaps that is kinda a lame excuse. Course to be honest at least early onin the pregnancy I donlt care about the reasons people have. What alot of my beliefs on this subject come down to is..I couldn;t say for 100% sure what I would do if I was pregnant and I have plenty of money and a home and plenty of support. So it seems unfair for me personally to tell someone else what they should do.

 

[Calliso]

And I am sorry if this post is off topic of this thread but what about the men? All I ever hear is the woman should be more responsible the woman should do this the woman should do that. But what about the man? I think the big problem is is it is very hard to pin any sort of responsiblity on the man involved in the situation cause he can just walk away I mean if you are teaching girls in sex ed class you can scare them by pointing out just how pregnancy and giving birth can be..and just how awful abortion can be as well. But a guy? I mean about the worse you could tell him is oh you may get an std and if you get the girl pregnant you MAY end up having to pay child support but there is no guarentee. And this is also why I get sorta offended when men come on here and bash women who get abortions. Because they will never have to face such a thing. They could all go out and get 10 girls pregnant and walk away from it all..but those 10 girls would have to deal with it.

 

[SolomonVII]

" I was just poking fun of her, and she took me seriously".

This would be a not untypical attitude of many men on this topic. Indeed many men quite enjoy the fact that so many women have now bought into the mores of casual sex more oriented to the physical encounter, unencumbered by any strings or emotional commitments.

Many fathers would be the ones instigating the action of whisking their daughters off to the nearest clinic to get things fixed, and more than just a few boyfriends don' t want to even know about it-just get the damm thing fixed, etc.etc.

These male norms are the fair contrast to those of other men that hold women to a higher standard, and understand that a sustainable society itself is impossible if free women themselves refrain from holding themselves to this higher standard.

No amount of jails would ever be built ot adequately control the sexual desires of men.

But a woman in control is sufficient.

Socieities have been built around setting in place social controls to channel the evolutionary tendencies that the male of the species have to propogate their seed in diverse places. And even now, any comparison between your average heteroxexual club or male homosexual one, and it becomes clear that it is the female of the species that is the natural brake for such a lifestyle.

Sadly, women who buy into assuming the masculine behavior patterns of impersonal sexuality will end up leaving the typical girl feeling unfilled at best, and used at worst.

It is in a woman's discerning behavior that the woman discovers her true power and control in any sexual relationship.

If the playing field is completely leveled, and the male sexual behavior is set up as the norm, the facts of biology themselves put the woman in a precarious position. Fair or not, this is the just reality.

Unfortunately the cult of victim that now so animates our society does not often integrate with the sense of responsibility that a woman needs to assume to fulfill her own biology.

 

[SolomonVII]

.....
So, pity the young people.

It is a poverty to decide that a child must die so that you may live as you wish.

Indeed this is the greatest poverty of all, and the most to be pitied.

 

[-~Truth_N_Trust~-]

And I am sorry if this post is off topic of this thread but what about the men? All I ever hear is the woman should be more responsible the woman should do this the woman should do that. But what about the man? I think the big problem is is it is very hard to pin any sort of responsiblity on the man involved in the situation cause he can just walk away I mean if you are teaching girls in sex ed class you can scare them by pointing out just how pregnancy and giving birth can be..and just how awful abortion can be as well. But a guy? I mean about the worse you could tell him is oh you may get an std and if you get the girl pregnant you MAY end up having to pay child support but there is no guarentee. And this is also why I get sorta offended when men come on here and bash women who get abortions. Because they will never have to face such a thing. They could all go out and get 10 girls pregnant and walk away from it all..but those 10 girls would have to deal with it.

I agree with what you've said here. But unfair does not equal free licence to do the same. Such a principle will leave us in a big mess!

 

[lincolngreen50]

While you and some others may disagree having an abortion is taking responsiblity for ones actions.

By a difference of circumstance you may have been aborted yourself without the choice to decide whether you would live or die.
That would have been a tragedy dont you agree?

 

[Calliso]

By a difference of circumstance you may have been aborted yourself without the choice to decide whether you would live or die.
That would have been a tragedy dont you agree?

Yeah but it;s not like I would have cared. Because I wouldn;t even have been aware of my own existance.

 

[lincolngreen50]

And I am sorry if this post is off topic of this thread but what about the men? All I ever hear is the woman should be more responsible the woman should do this the woman should do that. But what about the man? I think the big problem is is it is very hard to pin any sort of responsiblity on the man involved in the situation cause he can just walk away I mean if you are teaching girls in sex ed class you can scare them by pointing out just how pregnancy and giving birth can be..and just how awful abortion can be as well. But a guy? I mean about the worse you could tell him is oh you may get an std and if you get the girl pregnant you MAY end up having to pay child support but there is no guarentee. And this is also why I get sorta offended when men come on here and bash women who get abortions. Because they will never have to face such a thing. They could all go out and get 10 girls pregnant and walk away from it all..but those 10 girls would have to deal with it.

In the end it is the woman who has to make the choice,I believe that the law of the land decrees it that way.
The man has no choice on wether the baby is aborted or not although he can give his views.
One can deflect from the point of this debate but for me there is only one choice ,pro life,that is the choice,the freedom of choice that a woman has is the pro life choice.
The alternatives to abortion is clear.