Poll - Once Saved Always Saved

[Gareth]

It depends on what exactly "know" means. We can be fully convinced, yes, but before we've crossed over to the other side God does not intervene and somehow give us divine knowledge. Even in our last moments it all depends on the strength of our faith. At least that's how I see it.

If we are in our final moments we can make our peace with God, as many I'm sure do. The arguement will always go back and forth. It is of course God who makes the distinction whether a person is saved or not. Maintaining a heathly relationship with the Creator helps. But death aquits man of his sin, as it did with the one hung along side Jesus. He had no time to exercise faith in the Messiah, yet Jesus told him he would be remembered. Which is a comfort and a relief and also kicks into touch the idea of Limbo and Purgatory.

 

[Ormly]

Thats not scriptural , a person is saved by the grace of God, grace only gives it does not require..

............

 

[Ormly]

"Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the LORD of hosts."

Sounds conditional to me. . . . a "breathed" word.

 

[yashualover]

If we are in our final moments we can make our peace with God, as many I'm sure do. The arguement will always go back and forth. It is of course God who makes the distinction whether a person is saved or not. Maintaining a heathly relationship with the Creator helps. But death aquits man of his sin, as it did with the one hung along side Jesus. He had no time to exercise faith in the Messiah, yet Jesus told him he would be remembered. Which is a comfort and a relief and also kicks into touch the idea of Limbo and Purgatory.

Death does not acuit, if that were so there would be no need for the great judgement.

–verb (used with object), -quit·ted, -quit·ting. 1.to relieve from a charge of fault or crime; declare not guilty: They acquitted him of the crime. The jury acquitted her, but I still think she's guilty. 2.to release or discharge (a person) from an obligation. 3.to settle or satisfy (a debt, obligation, claim, etc.). 4.to bear or conduct (oneself); behave: He acquitted himself well in battle. 5.to free or clear (oneself): He acquitted himself of suspicion.


The thief on the cross repented, Jesus saw his repentant heart and he entered paradise that same day.

 

[Ormly]

Using one imagination to interpet scripture is an enemy of the Cross.... gen 6:5

Sensibilities require a degree of imagination. I am happy with mine. Get yours, it might help you understand what is now nothing more that twisted..

 

[savedbygrace57]

Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the LORD of hosts."

Sounds conditional to me. . . . a "breathed" word.

acts 3:26

26Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

Sounds unconditional to me..

 

[Ormly]

acts 3:26

26Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

Sounds unconditional to me..

If you think so, then deal with them both and not just pick the one that suits your bent. Otherwise you just might as well throw out half the Bible. Get understanding about all of what it says and why and to whom and under what conditions was the word spoken and, and, and

 

[A Brother In Christ]

romans 3:10 as it is written , there is none righteous, no, not one.

romans 10:3 for they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.


love scripture that is God breathed... 2 peter 1:19-21

And I hate those who purposely twist His "breathed" word. I consider them enemies of the cross of Christ.

Using one imagination to interpet scripture is an enemy of the Cross.... gen 6:5

Sensibilities require a degree of imagination. I am happy with mine. Get yours, it might help you understand what is now nothing more that twisted..

I do not know what you believe ... you confuse me and attack me?

1 cor 13:1 Though I speak with the tongue of men and of angels, and have not love, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

1 cor 13:2 and though I have the gift of mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountians and have not love; I am nothing John 15:5, gal 5:22

 

[Ormly]

I do not know what you believe ... you confuse me and attack me?

And you don't ask to know either, just accuse. Your mind is made up and snapped shut, as with others on this forum.

 

[Gareth]

Just a thought. Is/was John the Baptist saved? He died before Jesus so will he/won't he go to heaven. For no-one had gone to heaven before Jesus. Added to this was Jesus own words in Matt.11:11 that one who is a lesser one in the kingdom will be greater than The Baptist. So where did/will John go? And by extension where is everyone else who died before Jesus? How would you answer using the Bible?

 

[savedbygrace57]

If you think so, then deal with them both and not just pick the one that suits your bent.

One is old covenent and one is new covenent, you have a tendency to mix all scripture together without discernment..

 

[A Brother In Christ]

I do not know what you believe ... you confuse me and attack me?

1 cor 13:1 Though I speak with the tongue of men and of angels, and have not love, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

1 cor 13:2 and though I have the gift of mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountians and have not love; I am nothing John 15:5, gal 5:22

And you don't ask to know either, just accuse. Your mind is made up and snapped shut, as with others on this forum.

you jump in on a public forum while I have been discussing topics with some people for up to 8 years of discussion

things that you say .... bring verses to mind

I will write them if they offend you... sorry

But to say I twisted scripture ... show me how I twisted scripture .... with scripture not with your thoughts....

 

[yashualover]

Just a thought. Is/was John the Baptist saved? He died before Jesus so will he/won't he go to heaven. For no-one had gone to heaven before Jesus. Added to this was Jesus own words in Matt.11:11 that one who is a lesser one in the kingdom will be greater than The Baptist. So where did/will John go? And by extension where is everyone else who died before Jesus? How would you answer using the Bible?

Jesus (Yeshua) is eternal and has always been.

 

[Ormly]

One is old covenent and one is new covenent, you have a tendency to mix all scripture together without discernment..

Consider you don't understand the similarities and differences between the convenants, being very legalistic in what you do determine to be difference.

What convenant was this 'condition" written under??

"Therefore repent and turn back, that your sins may be wiped out so that seasons of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord"
Acts 3:19 (HCSB)

 

[heymikey80]

"Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the LORD of hosts."

Sounds conditional to me. . . . a "breathed" word.

"yet you did not return to me," declares the LORD. "Therefore thus I will do to you, O Israel; because I will do this to you, prepare to meet your God, O Israel! Am 4:11-12

The LORD saw it, and it displeased him
that there was no justice.
He saw that there was no man,
and wondered that there was no one to intercede;
then his own arm brought him salvation,
and his righteousness upheld him.
He put on righteousness as a breastplate,
and a helmet of salvation on his head;
he put on garments of vengeance for clothing,
and wrapped himself in zeal as a cloak.
According to their deeds, so will he repay,
wrath to his adversaries, repayment to his enemies;
to the coastlands he will render repayment.
So they shall fear the name of the LORD from the west,
and his glory from the rising of the sun;
for he will come like a rushing stream,
which the wind of the LORD drives. "And a Redeemer will come to Zion,
to those in Jacob who turn from transgression," declares the LORD. Is 59:15-20


​

 

[Gareth]

Jesus (Yeshua) is eternal and has always been.

That wasn't the question. Plus I don't agree with what you say. The question to rephrase it is this: John the Baptist died before Jesus. As no-one had gone to heaven before Jesus, what happened to John? Where was he before Jesus went back to heaven? Also in Acts17:31 Paul talks of a man God appointed and then raised up. That man was Jesus. By dying Jesus showed he was not eternal. Colossians calls him, "the firstborn of Creation", indicating he was in fact created. Then Paul again mentions in Phill.2:5-11 of Jesus position to God and then at the beginning of Revelation we are told that God gave the resurrected Jesus the Revelation to Jesus to give to the Apostle John. It's that simple.

 

[Dispy]

Are you saying that someone broke the seal?

You bet --- one who is "taken captive by worldly deceptions, RATHER THAN CHRIST", is 100% "lost". Seal broken.

Read Romans 8:35-39 again, and then give Paul an answer.

A person that is saved can still fall prey to a false doctrine. That is why Paul instructs us to be Bereans, and to study the Word daily to see if those things are true (Acts 17:11).

You are right, he can.

...and if he does, he is no longer saved....

If what you say is true, then that one he "broke his probation." Eph. 1:12-14 is a lie.

John, in 2 John 1:7-9, is writing to the dispersed Jewish believer as a result of the persecution. The same one that James, Peter, and John agreed to stay with in Gal. 2:9. He is warning them about the Judaizers that did not believe that Jesus was the Christ, the long promised Messiah. John is not writing to members of the Church, the Body of Christ. I might add that even though John is not writing to members of the Body of Christ, there are many things that John writes that are just as applicable to us.

It's saying the same as 1Tim4:16, and many others.

How are we to decide what parts of Scripture "apply to us", and what parts we can disregard?.

Very easy, I look to see to whoml what was written is addressed. At one time I was a postal letter carrier. I had to sort the mail prior to making my delievers. To do that I checked to see the name and address on the letter/parcel to be delivered.

If the content of the letter said that the adressee had won $1,000,000, I would not have been able to collect it. When Biblical passages are written to Israel, under the Law, It was not written to Gentiles that were not under the Law. Letters that are addressed to the Church, the Body of Christ, (Jew and Gentile on equal footing, without distinction, and not under the Law) are for the members of the Body of Christ.

Now, tell me, to whom are the letters of James, 1, 2 Peter, and 1, 2, 3 John written? Were they written to those saved under the preaching of "the gospel of the kingdom," or under the preaching of "the gospel of the Grace of God." i.e. "the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, that was kept secret since the world began?[/QUOTE]

Being Israel is "the Bride of Christ," I must assume that you are referring to Israel as the "chosen lady." I am not a Jew or spiritual Jew. 2 John is not written to me as a member of the Body of Christ.

I'm referring to the wording in the first of the chapter....

What words were you referring to. To whom did James, Cephas (Peter) and John agree to remain with in Gal. 2:9?

To "rightly divide" the Word, one must take into consideration to whom the author is writing and the purpose of the letter. The letters of James, 1, 2 Peter, and 1, 2, 3 John, are written to the dispersed Jews. When reading those letters, keep in mind that they are written to Jewish believers that were saved during the preaching of "the gospel of the kingdom," and have an earthly kingdom to look forward to; which they will enter at the 2nd coming of Christ.

If James Peter and John say the same things as Paul, and Jesus, then they are not "dispensation-we-can-ignore-them".

When did Paul ever preach "the gospel of the kingdom," and when did Peter, Jame, and John ever preach "the gospel of the Grace of God." i.e. Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery which was kept secret since the world began.

I hope we can come to resolution on the issue of "you can sin, but remain saved".

As Paul said: "Shall I continue in sin, that grace may abound? NEVER! How shall we who have DIED to sin, still live IN it?" Rom6:1

I was once a sinner that was saved by God's Grace. Like the Corinthians, I a now a saint that still sins.

Paul is saying that as saved believers, we do not have a license to sin. Paul stresses that we walk in our "calling," "I BEESCH (BEG) you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your selves a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonalbe service" (Rom. 12:1).

What does Paul mean when he wrote in 1 Cor. 6:12: "All things are lawfell unto me, but all thing are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any"? Also in 10:23 " All things are lawful for me, but all thing are not expedient (proper): all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not."

We are dead to sin, and alive to Christ; or dead to Christ and alive to sin.

Again, I was once a sinner that was saved by God's Grace. Now I am a saint that still sins.

 

[Ormly]

"yet you did not return to me," declares the LORD. "Therefore thus I will do to you, O Israel; because I will do this to you, prepare to meet your God, O Israel! Am 4:11-12​

The LORD saw it, and it displeased him​

that there was no justice.​

He saw that there was no man,​

and wondered that there was no one to intercede;​

then his own arm brought him salvation,​

and his righteousness upheld him.​

He put on righteousness as a breastplate,​

and a helmet of salvation on his head;​

he put on garments of vengeance for clothing,​

and wrapped himself in zeal as a cloak.​

According to their deeds, so will he repay,​

wrath to his adversaries, repayment to his enemies;​

to the coastlands he will render repayment.​

So they shall fear the name of the LORD from the west,​

and his glory from the rising of the sun;​

for he will come like a rushing stream,​

which the wind of the LORD drives. "And a Redeemer will come to Zion,​

to those in Jacob who turn from transgression," declares the LORD. Is 59:15-20​

No cigar!! That doesn't the conditions God set down. A child should know that. That fact they were obstinate changed nothing, unless you believe God didn't mean what He said?

 

[yashualover]

That wasn't the question. Plus I don't agree with what you say. The question to rephrase it is this: John the Baptist died before Jesus. As no-one had gone to heaven before Jesus, what happened to John? Where was he before Jesus went back to heaven? Also in Acts17:31 Paul talks of a man God appointed and then raised up. That man was Jesus. By dying Jesus showed he was not eternal. Colossians calls him, "the firstborn of Creation", indicating he was in fact created. Then Paul again mentions in Phill.2:5-11 of Jesus position to God and then at the beginning of Revelation we are told that God gave the resurrected Jesus the Revelation to Jesus to give to the Apostle John. It's that simple.

Where is your scriptural proof to show that nobody went to heaven before YHWH came in the flesh?

 

[yashualover]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxZKJSNVgqM