Poll - Once Saved Always Saved

[chestertonrules]

All else aside - is this really necessary???

We have a history, and I think it is accurate.

Look at the request he made, my response with biblical support, and his response when he received my reply.

He doesn't want the truth.

 

[AndOne]

Yes, if that were the case. But in Jesus' analogy to the vine, the branch was clearly attached, and since it did not bear fruit it was removed and burned.

This is not the same as never truly accepting Christ.

I believe we must persevere in our walk, seeking forgiveness when needed.

Not according to that passage in Luke 15:1-17 - which I believe is what you are referencing there. I suggest you read it all and pay particular close attention to verse 16.

That verse is the crux of the argument - if you are not chosen then in all reality you are nothing more than a professing Christian unable to bear fruit that will last.

 

[NoDoubt]

"For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousnes" Romans 1:17-18 (KJV)

AMEN!!!

 

[AndOne]

We have a history, and I think it is accurate.

Look at the request he made, my response with biblical support, and his response when he received my reply.

He doesn't want the truth.

Okay - bro - didn't know the whole story there....

 

[TraderJack]

Yes, I do.

But I still sin, and must ask for forgiveness.

What? You don't give reparation for your sins through penance?

You are not being a good Catholic if you don't.

Have you stopped sinning?

So, when do you expect to become perfectly righteous in actuallity in this life so God can then agree that you are perfectly righteous and can be finally justified?

 

[Ormly]

We have a history, and I think it is accurate.

Look at the request he made, my response with biblical support, and his response when he received my reply.

He doesn't want the truth.

Hey Dude! You spammed up Catholic writings not recognized by the Church, of Jesus Christ, that is. How did you honestly think I would respond? I am not interested in subjective writings from anyone. That has been an issue repeatedly addressed by me to you guys, adnausm. But you all don't listen or read and only wish to propagate your religion. Review your posts to see that is true.

 

[AndOne]

Hey Dude! You spammed up Catholic writings not recognized by the Church, of Jesus Christ, that is. How did you honestly think I would respond? I am not interested in subjective writings from anyone. That has been an issue repeatedly addressed by me to you guys, adnausm. But you all don't listen or read and only wish to propagate your religion. Review your posts to see that is true.

Now Orm - in all fairness - you've also put up some stuff here - which might not be recognized by the church either. Jesse Penn Lewis - wasn't it?

Quite frankly I don't have a problem if folks do that. I like to know where folks are coming from. It's also why I put up stuff from the Canons of Dort. Just ignor it if you don't agree with it.

 

[BreadAlone]

QUIT

The Personal Attacks!!

 

[AndOne]

Out of the mouths of babes......

 

[TraderJack]

Out of the mouths of babes......

 

[AndOne]

bye bye TJ! I know you're a goin' down for that one!

 

[Ormly]

Now Orm - in all fairness - you've also put up some stuff here - which might not be recognized by the church either. Jesse Penn Lewis - wasn't it?

If it was then I thank her agreeing with me. . . . and I know who you mean.

Quite frankly I don't have a problem if folks do that. I like to know where folks are coming from. It's also why I put up stuff from the Canons of Dort. Just ignor it if you don't agree with it.

I'll go with that. It is all open for correction by brothers who do their spiritual homework and in my estimation that doesn't necessarily mean those steeped only in the academic of the Bible., both past and present writings need a fresh examination simply because God reveals some fresh insight every so often into what He is after, that should bring adjustment as we witness time unfolding. Hanging on to that which is not "anchoring truth" as if it was, is grievous to me..

 

[NoDoubt]

All I can say is that I had the catechism and years of catholic schooling and indocrination and NOT ONCE was I told how to be saved by grace through faith.

I was told to go to mass and recite the rosary (vain repetitions) and go to confession and pray to mary and saint this and that.....

It wasn't until I was given a Bible and led to a true Bible-believing, scripturally sound church and taught the message of salvation that I was freed from bondage of man-made religion.

That's when the Holy Spirit began to speak to me and I understood the meaning of God's plan for salvation.

 

[AndOne]

All I can say is that I had the catechism and years of catholic schooling and indocrination and NOT ONCE was I told how to be saved by grace through faith.

I was told to go to mass and recite the rosary (vain repetitions) and go to confession and pray to mary and saint this and that.....

It wasn't until I was given a Bible and led to a true Bible-believing, scripturally sound church and taught the message of salvation that I was freed from bondage of man-made religion.

That's when the Holy Spirit began to speak to me and I understood the meaning of God's plan for salvation.

Scary stuff indeed - I'm glad you're free of it, sister.

Grace Alone - through Faith Alone - is what the Bible teaches - hands down!

 

[forgivenWretch]

All I can say is that I had the catechism and years of catholic schooling and indocrination and NOT ONCE was I told how to be saved by grace through faith.

I was told to go to mass and recite the rosary (vain repetitions) and go to confession and pray to mary and saint this and that.....

It wasn't until I was given a Bible and led to a true Bible-believing, scripturally sound church and taught the message of salvation that I was freed from bondage of man-made religion.

That's when the Holy Spirit began to speak to me and I understood the meaning of God's plan for salvation.

!GOD IS AWESOME...ISN'T HE!

 

[Ormly]

That we all know what the plan of salvation is and have confessed Christ, what's the next step,
hang on til Heaven?

 

[NoDoubt]

!GOD IS AWESOME...ISN'T HE!

Yes! I trust in His Promise! I know that my life is in His hands and that I am safe in His arms.

 

[mattlock73]

It is saying that it is impossible for a believer who had once been enlightened by the spirit and fall away to come back.

Heb 6:4 As for those who at one time saw the light, tasting the good things from heaven, and having their part in the Holy Spirit,
Heb 6:5 With knowledge of the good word of God, and of the powers of the coming time,
Heb 6:6 And then let themselves be turned away, it is not possible for their hearts to be made new a second time; because they themselves put the Son of God on the cross again, openly shaming him.

Read it properly. It is not saying that it is impossible to turn away but it is saying it is impossible to turn away and return.

(RV)
Heb 6:4 For as touching those who were once enlightened and tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 and tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the age to come,
Heb 6:6 and then fell away, it is impossible to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

(ISV)

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible to keep on restoring to repentance time and again people who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have become sharers of the Holy Spirit,
Heb 6:5 who have tasted the goodness of God's word and the powers of the coming age,
Heb 6:6 and who have fallen away, as long as they continue to crucify to themselves the Son of God and to expose him to public ridicule.

(ESV)

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit,
Heb 6:5 and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come,
Heb 6:6 and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.

The original greek literally says "and falling aside". How is this used to support OSAS?

The phrase for 'those who were once' here is derived from the Greek hapas meaning once and for all. So it would be quite impossible for one who has been once and for all saved to fall away. In the parable of the seeds we see that there are those who have 'tasted' (those on the rocky soil) that do not have a saving faith.

 

[mattlock73]

That's not what the bible says.

Jesus is the lifeboat. We can't reach shore without him. However, we must get in the boat and stay in.

It is possible to acknowledge the existence of the lifeboat without getting in.

It is possible to jump out after getting in.

Jesus is the only means to salvation, but that doesn't mean we don't have to do anything.

(unless you believe in universal salvation)

please tell me what it is that we can do to gain salvation if you agree that is through Christ alone?

 

[mattlock73]

Are you saying that Christians stop sinning once they acknowledge Christ as savior?

God is just. He gives us clear instructions with regard to what is required of us.


Here are a few:

- Matthew 6:14 "For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father also will forgive you; but if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses."

- Matthew 19:16-17 "'Teacher, what good deed must I do, to have eternal life?'...'If you would enter life, keep the commandments.'" Isn't keeping the commandments a set of works?

- Romans 2:6-7 "For He will render to every man according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, He will give eternal life."

- Hebrews 12:14 "Strive for peace with all men and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord." Both faith and works...we have to "strive" for holiness

- James 2:20 "Do you want to be shown you foolish fellow, that faith apart from works is barren?"

Can a barren faith save you?

Nope never said that. Salvation is outside of works, sanctification is the conforming to the image of Christ and includes works. The two are mutually exclusive. James is speaking of those that simply say they have faith, but do not evidence a true saving faith which produces works.