How to kill Palestinians

[Carey]

Prove to me that the Torah states that Jesus is the messiah. It is nowhere to be found in the Torah as the real messiah has yet to come.

You know that is exactly what the Muslims say too.

I hope you and everyone here will like this link

http://www.eagleswings.to/Group/Group.aspx?ID=1000017495

 

[Tanakh]

Incorrect, look to the Prophet Zechariah.



The Messiah will remove sin in a single day, and Joshua is symbolic of things to come... the Messiah.



His name will be Joshua. In Hebrew, that is Yeshua. Jesus. The Christ will be called Jesus. I'm not trying to convince you on that alone, but tell me, if the Anointed came when Daniel said, it would have been around the time of Jesus, and Jesus is the only one who matches the prophecies. If you are a Jew who truly believes that the Messiah is real and not symbolic, there is only one option.

The verses you quote from have been completely taken out of context as many words have been replaced to form a new meaning.

Zechariah 3:8-9 "Listen, now, O, Joshua, the Kohen Gadol: you and your companions who are sitting before you, for they are men [worthy] of a miracle - for behold, I am bringing My servant, Zemah [the flourishing one]. For behold, the [foundation] stone that I have placed before Joshua - seven eyes toward one stone; behold i am engraving its adornment - the word of HASHEM, Master of Legions - and I will remove the iniquity of that land on one day."

In this verse an angle is giving assurance to Joshua and his companions that G-d's flourishing servant is (either Zerubbabel or the messiah) going to complete the construction of the Temple. When the construction is finished the Temple's cornerstone will figuratively have beautiful engravings on it and that everyone will see.

Zechariah 6:9-13 "The word of HASHEM came to me, saying, "take from the exiles - from Heldai, from Tobijah and from Jedaiah. Come on that day; come to the household of Josiah son of Zephaniah, who have come from Babylonia, and take silver and gold and make crowns, and place [one of them] on the head of Joshua son of Jehozadak, the Kohen Gadol. Say to him, "Thus said HASHEM, Master of Legions; Behold, there is a man, his name is Zemah, and he will flourish in his place; he will build the Sanctuary of HASHEM. He will build the Sanctuary of HASHEM; he will bear majesty, and he will sit and rule upon his throne. The kohen will be upon his own throne, and there will be a disposition of peace between the two of them."

All the men mention contributed silver and gold to be used by Zechariah to make two crowns. Zerubbabel will wear one crown. The Kohen Gadol and the governor will each have a separate throne as there will be no animosity between them. It does not say anything about Jesus at all, neither does the first verse so you still did not prove that Jesus is the messiah.

 

[Servant222]

Hello Servant222,

Have you considered that Israeli agents within Palestinians will not let that [peace in Palestine] happen?

But they let it happen with Jordan and Egypt??????

Hamas was originally funded by Israel after all. I have no proof of a Levon affair style rouse but I suspect that one improves their efficiency over the years.
However ultimately you are correct. If I were Palestinian, I would suspect any violence done in its name as having roots as a useful pretext. The violence gives Israel cause, drives out media and feeds our expectation that has been cultivated for years.
Why would Israel want conflict you ask? You speak of democracy and free speech but none of that really matters in a drought. If Palestinians "fight back", or Lebanon for that matter, that is a solution to water. The Golan heights is a great "defensive" position from where Israel was "attacked". Lucky break to get the headwaters of the Jordan in the noble defense....

So you're saying that if the Palestinians ever embraced peace on their own, the plans of those evil Israeli agents would be thwarted??

Tell you what, let's give peace a try in Palestine and see if your theory is correct that it is Israeli agents with a hidden agenda that are stopping peace from bringing out.

We could start immediately by suspending the rocket attacks.

 

[Servant222]

I think that you hit the nail on the head above. You get panic attacks when you hear about Islam.

That right there should be a big clue that something is not right. God is not the author of fear, but of power, love and a sound mind.

If you are having such reactions to Islam, then it is because someone has programmed fear into you. God doesn't do that.

Those who have programmed such fear into you are those who will benefit from having people be afraid of Islam. Most notably, those who stand to gain something by having Islam and muslims demonized.

I understand what you are feeling. Even up until last year I was listening to the propaganda which programs such reactions into us.

My life has been a journey of unlearning much of what I thought was true these last 7 years, and objectively investigating the facts. And so, I finally am developing a good understanding of what is going on in the middle east and why.

What you have done is proof text writings of Islam, applying a western 21st century moral code to a 6th century culture that is widely divergent from your own.

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It is YOU who have hit the nail on the head, finally revealing some of your true feelings and agenda. There are about a dozen verses in the New Testament alone warning sinners to fear God; here is one from Revelation 14:

6Then I saw another angel flying in midair, and he had the eternal gospel to proclaim to those who live on the earth—to every nation, tribe, language and people. 7He said in a loud voice, "Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of his judgment has come. Worship him who made the heavens, the earth, the sea and the springs of water."

So exactly contrary to what you state, it is those who fear God who utterly reject pedophilia, murder, beheadings, suicide bombings, adultery, and similar despicable practices.

What you have done is proof text writings of Islam, applying a western 21st century moral code to a 6th century culture that is widely divergent from your own.

So you are agreeing with me that the original sacred writings of Islam support pedophilia, murder, beheadings, adultery and similar despicable practices that Christians utterly reject. Of course, this means that since they were never later revoked by the Islamic faith, they are still o.k. today in their eyes.

Wow!!

And then you state that those practices are wrong only if you apply a western 21st century moral code to them.

Unbelievable!!

The Bible utterly rejected those practices 2000 years ago, and continues to reject them today. That is what is so comforting about Christianity- consistency, unchanging; God's word was, and ever will be, the same. Christianity didn't have to make a 180° turn away from the truth 1400 years ago!

Only a small minority of Palestinians are Christians. If they truly are accountable to the Bible and God, then NONE of them would support the suicide bombings, indiscriminate rocket attacks, and other terrorist tactics that the majority of Palesitinians seem to support.

No Christian (including those in Palestine) could EVER engage in, OR SUPPORT murder, adultery, pedophilia, suicide bombings, indiscriminate rocket attacks, and similar despicable practices. Anyone who does either needs to FEAR GOD, acknowledge their sin, and repent IMMEDIATELY- or else admit that they are an agent of satan.

 

[Servant222]

According to the Palestinian Academic Society for the Study of International Affairs, only 3% of Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza are Christians; 97% are Muslims.

http://www.passia.org/

 

[Servant222]

What about you TLF- do you support the right of Palestinians to use suicide bombings, murder, indiscriminate rocket attacks, and similar terrorist practices to attack Israel and regain what they think is their homeland?

A simple "Yes" or "No" will suffice.

 

[gwynedd1]

But they let it happen with Jordan and Egypt??????

Hello Servant,

Let that happen? After taking Golan and Gaza? Do you really consider not making war on everyone also good tactically?

So you're saying that if the Palestinians ever embraced peace on their own, the plans of those evil Israeli agents would be thwarted??

I really hope your world view is not that simplistic. Friends and enemies are always on either side of the official line. Israel certainly has no need of agents if Palestinians provide cause that I know is encouraged nonetheless. Provocations only benefits Israel and lacking any real terror, Israel would be forced to stage it at greater risk to achieve similar goals .

How does one recover land in international law? The formula is laid out. A stronger country must provoke a weaker one to attack it. The land can only be kept in defense. History is full on one pretext after another and you do not even suspect this goes on? It is exactly what the Israeli defense minister said happened in Syria. The so called miracle of 6 days was propaganda to cover the fact that it was rigged all along. That fact that it only took 6 days should make it obvious that Israel knew it had superiority. The Spanish called Battle of Cajamarca a miracle as well. The miracle of guns, steel and horses in one case and the miracle of being a western proxy power in the other.

Tell you what, let's give peace a try in Palestine and see if your theory is correct that it is Israeli agents with a hidden agenda that are stopping peace from bringing out.

We could start immediately by suspending the rocket attacks.

I could not agree more but where it comes from is going to be difficult between true believers, patsies or agents. Every Palestinian needs to understand that their enemy is anyone who gives cause for war.

 

[gwynedd1]

According to the Palestinian Academic Society for the Study of International Affairs, only 3% of Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza are Christians; 97% are Muslims.

http://www.passia.org/

Servent,

Thats really wretchedly poor. Have a look at the demographic BEFORE Christians were driven out since the 40s.

Is anyone going to honestly admit around here that Palestine and Israel are currently a dysfunctional mix of terror on both sides with deluded Israelis and Palestinians on both sides?

Is it not obvious that the peace before the arrival of Israel indicated that Israel is the original cause of all this? Should we apologize to the Han dominated government of China for noticing the problem after Tibet was annexed? Did the New Guineans invite the Indonesians for supper and turn against them? Or was it perhaps provoked by the annexation land by the Javanese dominated government of Indonesia? I know what a land grab is when I see it.

 

[gwynedd1]

It is YOU who have hit the nail on the head, finally revealing some of your true feelings and agenda. There are about a dozen verses in the New Testament alone warning sinners to fear God; here is one from Revelation 14:



6Then I saw another angel flying in midair, and he had the eternal gospel to proclaim to those who live on the earth—to every nation, tribe, language and people. 7He said in a loud voice, "Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of his judgment has come. Worship him who made the heavens, the earth, the sea and the springs of water."

Servant,

Fear of God is not a context of panic but respect where disrespect has consequences. I am unclear of the original context or if you identified yourself as having fear. However as presented it may appear a to be a weak argument to defend a condition of fear.

2 Timothy 1

6For this reason I remind you to rekindle the gift of God that is within you through the laying on of my hands; 7for God did not give us a spirit of cowardice, but rather a spirit of power and of love and of self-discipline.

 

[Micah68]

Servent,

Thats really wretchedly poor. Have a look at the demographic BEFORE Christians were driven out since the 40s.

Is anyone going to honestly admit around here that Palestine and Israel are currently a dysfunctional mix of terror on both sides with deluded Israelis and Palestinians on both sides?

Is it not obvious that the peace before the arrival of Israel indicated that Israel is the original cause of all this? Should we apologize to the Han dominated government of China for noticing the problem after Tibet was annexed? Did the New Guineans invite the Indonesians for supper and turn against them? Or was it perhaps provoked by the annexation land by the Javanese dominated government of Indonesia? I know what a land grab is when I see it.

Thank You, gwynedd1 and my Palestinian husband thanks you. What an eye opener it was to see my self and my faith (as an American) through someone Else's eyes. My husband grew up in the Palestinian occupied territories. His school was a Christian Quaker all boys school. He loved his Christian teachers and the Christ like examples they lived. When he came to America to go to school this image was tarnished. There is an old, old Muslim saying in the Middle East, it is this...You eat with a Jew (no pork) and you sleep at the Christian's home (meaning trust). Anyone who has done any indepth study and research will know that Muslims, Christians and yes Jews lived side by side for centuries, in peace, prior to the al-nakba of 1948. Yes, you are right, concerning the problems in the Middle East.

My absolute favorite book (and first book) on the subject is 'Blood Brothers' by the Archbishop of Galilee, Elias Chacour, the book is available in it's entirety on-line at http://www.al-bushra.org/chacour/boodbrothers.htm. Abuna Chacours relationship with Christ is absolutely inspiring and his key and vision for peace is so very simple.


In his book, Blood Brothers, the archbishop tells of the time, when as a boy, his father went out and bought a lamb, something done for only the greatest of occasions. The lamb would be the center piece of a great feast to welcome the arrival of their new neighbors coming from Europe. The small boy's father explained it in this way, "Our Jewish brothers have been badly hurt and frightened. They can not go back to their homes in Europe, and they have not been welcomed by the rest of the world. So they are coming here to look for a home." The Chacour family extended true and traditional hospitality.


I truly believe there is an alternative approach to Christianity and Islam and not this, us against them mentality, good verses evil. Evil that was defeated, by the way, when Christ went to the Cross. Honestly, would Jesus advocate people being interned simply for their ethnicity or religion? Would he advocate the labeling and name calling which only incites and fuels hatred? Would Jesus approve of bombing innocent civilians (collateral damage) or collective punishment? Would Jesus take a family’s home and kick them to the curb leaving them destitute and homeless? I believe in a Christianity that is inclusive, God love us all wanting each for his Kingdom. Aren't we taught in Sunday school that we are all children of God? Like the song says, "Red and yellow, black and white. They are precious in his sight." Yet our actions would deem otherwise. Jesus said, "Do onto others as you would have them to onto you." Respect for all life follows in the steps of Jesus.

-Micah

 

[Rion]

The verses you quote from have been completely taken out of context as many words have been replaced to form a new meaning.

Or vice-versa. I use a translation of scriptures taken from the Dead Sea Scrolls, so I lean towards mine being correct. The Torah has been messed with over the years, for example the infamous

"They Lion My hands and feet" instead of They pierce my hands and feet."

 

[Tanakh]

Or vice-versa. I use a translation of scriptures taken from the Dead Sea Scrolls, so I lean towards mine being correct. The Torah has been messed with over the years, for example the infamous

"They Lion My hands and feet" instead of They pierce my hands and feet."

The Torah has not been changed by us Jews as the words are the same today as they were on Mount Sinai. So when a Christian tells us Jews what the text says I can only be too suspect as Christianity and Islam are responsible for the Torah's continued corruptive "translations" and considering that I know what the true meaning of the text really is it would be hopeless to try to say otherwise. When people use the Torah to say that Jesus is the messiah and then say we Jews do not know what our text really says by "proving" that the "new testament" is an "improvement" of the "old" is an attack on not only us Jews but on Israel itself for when people (like TLF) say that the promise to the land is not forever and then when I ask for proof she does not even respond in giving any verses in the Torah that proves that the messiah would make void that promise is rather telling that she thinks that the Torah is void because some false prophet came along and said "oh no that is not what G-d meant at all so listen to me, after all I am G-d in human form, as I know what he/I really meant to say so now I am going to start a new religion with a new covenant and change what the original text says because I know best." The promise to the land is FOREVER and Jesus is NOT predicted in the Torah as he cannot be the messiah so that means by default that Israel is our and ours alone for it does NOT belong to the "Palestinians" and if they think that the land is theirs, well then I guess they will just have to fight and die for it wont they.

 

[thereselittleflower]

It is YOU who have hit the nail on the head, finally revealing some of your true feelings and agenda. There are about a dozen verses in the New Testament alone warning sinners to fear God; here is one from Revelation 14:

6Then I saw another angel flying in midair, and he had the eternal gospel to proclaim to those who live on the earth—to every nation, tribe, language and people. 7He said in a loud voice, "Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of his judgment has come. Worship him who made the heavens, the earth, the sea and the springs of water."

So exactly contrary to what you state, it is those who fear God who utterly reject pedophilia, murder, beheadings, suicide bombings, adultery, and similar despicable practices.



So you are agreeing with me that the original sacred writings of Islam support pedophilia, murder, beheadings, adultery and similar despicable practices that Christians utterly reject. Of course, this means that since they were never later revoked by the Islamic faith, they are still o.k. today in their eyes.

Wow!!

And then you state that those practices are wrong only if you apply a western 21st century moral code to them.

Unbelievable!!

The Bible utterly rejected those practices 2000 years ago, and continues to reject them today. That is what is so comforting about Christianity- consistency, unchanging; God's word was, and ever will be, the same. Christianity didn't have to make a 180° turn away from the truth 1400 years ago!

Only a small minority of Palestinians are Christians. If they truly are accountable to the Bible and God, then NONE of them would support the suicide bombings, indiscriminate rocket attacks, and other terrorist tactics that the majority of Palesitinians seem to support.

No Christian (including those in Palestine) could EVER engage in, OR SUPPORT murder, adultery, pedophilia, suicide bombings, indiscriminate rocket attacks, and similar despicable practices. Anyone who does either needs to FEAR GOD, acknowledge their sin, and repent IMMEDIATELY- or else admit that they are an agent of satan.

You have totally misrepresented what I said, and that, my friend, is SLANDER.

I suggest you stop immediately.

.

 

[thereselittleflower]

What about you TLF- do you support the right of Palestinians to use suicide bombings, murder, indiscriminate rocket attacks, and similar terrorist practices to attack Israel and regain what they think is their homeland?

A simple "Yes" or "No" will suffice.

No, a simple "yes" or "no" will NOT suffice, for much more needs to happen here.

Your deceptive tactics need to be exposed for what they are.

Again, this is an attempt at DEFAMATION, nothing more.

It is the tatics of those who find themselves backed into a corner from which they cannot logically defend their own positon, so they resort to the logical fallacy known as AD HOMINEM - against the person.

Here you try to disparage my character by asking such inane questions.


Tell me, who ever has such rights? NO ONE!
I hope I have made myself clear.

When are you going to denounce Israel's terrorist treatement of the Palestinians?


.

 

[Servant222]

TLF

If I have erred and "slandered" you, then please show me where and I will gladly apologize and edit.

 

[thereselittleflower]

The Torah as not been changed by us Jews as the words are the same today as they were on Mount Sinai.

Baloney. You have no way to prove this.

The oldest Masoratic texts are from the 6th century AD, not the time of Moses. There is no proof whatsoever that there have been no changes made.

.

 

[thereselittleflower]

TLF

If I have erred and "slandered" you, then please show me where and I will gladly apologize and edit.

The entire post needs to be deleted. Everything you attribute to me is false and slander.

.

 

[Tanakh]

Baloney. You have no way to prove this.

The oldest Masoratic texts are from the 6th century AD, not the time of Moses. There is no proof whatsoever that there have been no changes made.

.

Really, hmmm..........then prove to me that Jesus even existed and if (emphasis on if) he existed then tell me where in the Tanakh does it say that the messiah will make void the mandate that G-d made in order to form a new "covenant" and rewrite the laws of G-d. You have no way to prove that Jesus is the messiah as it is nowhere in the Torah and thus the promise that the land is FOREVER is ,well, indeed forever. And by the way the 6th century AD is six hundred years after Jesus so I guess he really did make all the stuff he said up after all.

 

[Horse Man]

.

 

[Micah68]

Really, hmmm..........then prove to me that Jesus even existed and if (emphasis on if) he existed then tell me where in the Tanakh does it say that the messiah will make void the mandate that G-d made in order to form a new "covenant" and rewrite the laws of G-d. You have no way to prove that Jesus is the messiah as it is nowhere in the Torah and thus the promise that the land is FOREVER is ,well, indeed forever. And by the way the 6th century AD is six hundred years after Jesus so I guess he really did make all the stuff he said up after all.

You either believe or you don't, simple as that.

Josephus' Account of Jesus in the Testimonium Flavianum
http://homepages.which.net/~radical.faith/background/josephusonjesus.htm

New information
In 1995 a discovery was published that brought important new evidence to the debate over the Testimonium Flavianum. For the first time it was pointed out that Josephus' description of Jesus showed an unusual similarity with another early description of Jesus. It was established statistically that the similarity was too close to have appeared by chance. Further study showed that Josephus' description was not derived from this other text, but rather that both were based on a Jewish-Christian "gospel" that has since been lost.
For the first time, it has become possible to prove that the Jesus account cannot have been a complete forgery and even to identify which parts were written by Josephus and which were added by a later interpolator.