At Crossroads -- Cf's Vision Discussion Thread - Please Vote in Poll Thread

[intricatic]

I voted option two. Meeting with other Christians online was the reason I joined this site. After nearly four years I've been to a variety of churches but this is the one church I haven't left. Being a site that was simply influenced by Christians would change everything.

I agree 100%.

Hallelujah!

Hallelujah no more wiki?

 

[ZACTAK]

it is segregation!

webster describes it as the separation for special treatment or observation of individuals or items from a larger group

So yes it is

They're not being seperated from the group... there would be an area open for EVERYONE... that is not segregation.

 

[Lisa0315]

It will be destroying the wiki?

All I can say to that is,

No, it will be destroying a seed of faith, actually, but whatever...

Lisa

 

[FriendsFellowship]

I agree 100%.


Hallelujah no more wiki?

No more WIKI!

 

[Mary_Magdalene]

and the bottom line, some Christians here think they are above the nonbelievers SIMPLY bc they're Christian. they say they can't be competent mods bc they couldn't possibly know how to give good advice adn some Christians here would like nothing more thna to shove them back into their little dark corners.

i'm ashamed to be a Christian today.

what do you mean by "they are above the nonbelievers"?

Do you mean that because we have been washed in the blood of the Lamb?

 

[justanobserver]

actually, why couldn't there be a rule that if ANYONE got a pm from a seeker we would automatically refer them to the pastoral team?

simple and perfect solution. we did this on our team as a Mod. Herev and P_G were called many times to minister.

I thinkthis would be a great idea and could maybe solve some concerns.

As far as I am concerned, cover all the bases - have all Mods and staffers show their faith icons - for example, there just may be a protestant who may not want to go to a catholic for counsel/advise (and vice versa).

 

[sparklecat]

It works for me. What happens when you click on it?

Lisa

Takes me to the first page of the Wiki discussion.

 

[MewtwoX]

Guys? Poll percentage minimums?

Are there going to be minimum percentages to pass an option?

 

[Lisa0315]

So, y'all really do not care that a soul is hanging in the balance here?

I guess y'all are right. This ISN'T the place for atheists afterall.

Lisa

 

[Lisa0315]

Takes me to the first page of the Wiki discussion.

You mean the first post or the latest post?

Lisa

 

[Brimshack]

actually, why couldn't there be a rule that if ANYONE got a pm from a seeker we would automatically refer them to the pastoral team?

I think that would be a good rule to give your Christian mods as well.

Seriously folks, do you want to talk about the junk that we've gotten in PMs from mods over the years? Do you seriously think somehow the prospect that someone like Raven might actually tell someone seeking answers what she thinks would constitute a new low or even an unusual threat to the credibility of the site?

If the goal is to ensure that people seeking help get access to the right voice, as per the site, then a sound ministry team, composed of people with real qualifications, and a policy of referring folks to them is a sounds tep in that direction. With or without non-Christian mods. Beyond that, if someone would still like to speak to a non-Christian about their problems, mod or otherwise, then you have exactly what you have now.

 

[FriendsFellowship]

Guys? Poll percentage minimums?

Are there going to be minimum percentages to pass an option?

Anything let's say above 15% for option two means option two wins!

 

[intricatic]

So, y'all really do not care that a soul is hanging in the balance here?

I guess y'all are right. This ISN'T the place for atheists afterall.

Lisa

I think there are bigger things in the balance than a single soul, but I don't think this is going to be the end-all factor in a ministerial approach to a single person.

 

[sparklecat]

You mean the first post or the latest post?

Lisa

First post. Since I'm following the discussion over there, I know what you meant to link to, but to everyone else it just looks like you're linking to the Wiki discussion in general, which many would be quite happy to see gone; hence the clapping.

 

[CaDan]

They're not being seperated from the group... there would be an area open for EVERYONE... that is not segregation.

"The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, beg in the streets or steal bread."

~Anatole France.

I think maybe we could do better than that.

 

[D'Ann]

It's becoming fairly clear that most of the disagreement here is simply over the role of the moderators. I seem to recall that it was proposed on the original thread that moderation and ministry be split formally; moderators would perform the janitorial duties, and a separate (Christian-only) group would be set up to handle ministry. That way, all members are represented in those who enforce the rules, and there's a highly visible group of Christians who can serve as the official representatives of the CF ministry. Would that be acceptable?

Oh, now that definitely deserves some cookies.

Thanks for the cookies. I love chocolate chip cookies... well, anything chocolate. Yummy and thank you.

To me, having non-Christian moderators is only a small part of what I disagree about with this new CF. I hate the wiki forums more than anything. And I don't really like the voting on moderator process either. I have issues with a few other things with this new Cf as well, but I prefer to keep them to myself at this point.

I feel the same way, but I finally came off the fence when I realized that the choice to return back to old CF was winning. I have no idea how binding this poll may be, but I am not going to hold my breath that it will only be used as a "tool" to get an idea of what people want either.

Lisa

Hi Lisa

In all honesty, I hope and pray that this poll is NOT binding. What I really don't like about this post is once again, the majority will be heard while the minority could be ignored and that isn't right or fair. We need to have other options. I'm not happy with either option either.

I think Erwin should start another poll. I think I have learned something after seeing so many posts. I am sure there are other people who are like me that want to change the vote.

Maybe he will, but don't expect that new poll to be binding either. I don't think any one side should be ignored. There needs to be a balance and all things in moderation.

Hold on a minute, D'Ann. It is God who sends a person to one of His Servants. Let us have faith that if a true Seeker comes here, that God is in control, and will make sure that the person comes in contact with the right person. I honestly do not think this is something we have to worry about.

We have far more to worry about with our own infighting turning people away than a non-Christian mod not being able to give Spiritual advice.

Lisa

Lisa, I respectfully disagree in that we all are called to give an answer for the faith that we are. We all are called to share the gospel of Christ. And the Bible does warn us that there are wolves in sheep's clothing seeking whom they can devour. It's part of each Christian's ministry to protect the lambs from being misled and the Holy Spirit also will use those vessels who are willing to do His bidding and thus... why allow the chance of any one lamb to be misled?

As far as infighting, we all have a basic fundamental faith in Christ. And I do agree in that we need to stop infighting and reach out to each other with love and hope and faith and understanding and without compromise of the objective Truth in Christ our Lord.

I don't want to exclude anyone, no true Christian wants to exclude a non-believer/non-Christian to fellowship and ask questions respectfully in any of the forums. And the same for Christians in a non-Christian forum. It goes two ways.

Can you be assured that none of the current Christian moderators are lying about their faith? Or that they won't abuse their positions in various ways?

No, I'm not God and I don't know what is in anyone's heart, but if they do lie, I believe that eventually the truth will show itself by their fruits. God has a way of revealing the truth. Believe me, people would know and hopefully reach out to the moderator who lied and show them compassion and love and forgiveness and be kind and gentle but also relieve them from being a moderator. Not because they didn't do a good job necessarily, but because they lied. I don't believe that the end results justify the means of achieving the end results of any one given thing.

with all due respect, you (and anyone who is non-Christian) are looking at all this from a non-biblical worldview so you can't really understand where most Christians who are posting in this thread are talking about. non-Christians CANT fulfill this site's stated mission as they do not have the Holy Spirit living in them. I wish my non-Christians friends on CF did, but they don't choose to. CF cant unite Christians as one body without the Holy Spirit.

Very good point. I need to take a break. Thank you for being here.

actually, why couldn't there be a rule that if ANYONE got a pm from a seeker we would automatically refer them to the pastoral team?

We can have that rule and I do trust and believe that 99 percent of the non-Christian moderators would follow it, but what about the one who might not and decides to mislead those who are weak in the faith or who are searching? One lamb is just as important as another lamb.

May I suggest that it's not really fair on us to start from the assumption that we're going to lie about our intentions and abuse our positions?


Some people might do this, yes. But then, there is no guarantee that an unbeliever won't pretend to be a Christian in order to lure people away, or that a professed Christian won't abuse the trust placed in them by interacting inappropriately with underage members, or any number of other things. In fact, it probably will happen eventually; this is a big site with quite a turnover for moderators. That doesn't make it right to turn away anyone who shares the views of these potential abusers because of what they could do.



It could be written into the moderator protocol that non-Christian moderators will always start by offering to refer anyone who approaches them on faith-related matters. Once that's done... is there any reason to assume non-Christians are less trustworthy than Christians when they've sworn to abide by the rules and do the duty as they've agreed?

In my heart, you make a valid point and truthfully, I do trust you and other non-Christian moderators because you and others are sincerely doing your best to view your work here on CF with a good heart in truly helping the members. I respect you and Ravenscape for being here. To me, it's not about if you and other non-Christians are good moderators because I believe that you and Ravenscape and others who are on staff are excellent moderators and I respect you for it and I do believe that you would send a seeker or struggling Christian to a Christian moderator and also direct them to talk with their priest or pastor. But sometimes once someone opens up with a moderator, they want to talk to that particular moderator and thus you could be put in a very awkward situation. Can you lead someone to trust in Christ and to turn to Christ when you, yourself, have yet to do this? Hon, I know your heart is in the right place and I have this great amount of respect for you, always will too, but honestly, I believe that there needs to be another kind of position for you here on CF, equally important as being a moderator.

Since joining CF, people have confided in me or asked me who to go to for advice more than a few times. I've never hesitated to refer them to a Christian moderator or member who I knew had the experience and compassion to help them. That won't change as long as I am an active member.

Ravenscape, I do trust you and believe you. I do know that you care and are a good moderator and you Rock too along with Sparklecat. What I wrote above is also to you as well.

They aren't in the back of the bus saying Yes'm and No Suh! That would be the difference in my opinion.

Lisa

Well, Lisa, no one said they are and well... I hope and pray they never are back there... I don't want anyone to be back there. We need another option other than #1 or #2. Neither of those options are workable.

 

[Lisa0315]

I think that would be a good rule to give your Christian mods as well.

Seriously folks, do you want to talk about the junk that we've gotten in PMs from mods over the years? Do you seriously think somehow the prospect that someone like Raven might actually tell someone seeking answers what she thinks would constitute a new low or even an unusual threat to the credibility of the site?

If the goal is to ensure that people seeking help get access to the right voice, as per the site, then a sound ministry team, composed of people with real qualifications, and a policy of referring folks to them is a sounds tep in that direction. With or without non-Christian mods. Beyond that, if someone would still like to speak to a non-Christian about their problems, mod or otherwise, then you have exactly what you have now.

I would support that only if ALL mods were required to do that.

Lisa

 

[Debi1967]

I have been fighting now for along time, even before these changes took place to keep a CF that no longer exists .... I wish it did....

Painfully, I had to actually realize that or maybe I knew it all along but was afraid to accept it....I wanted the Cf I came to 3 and half years ago when I converted and when things here felt like home to me.... Even when OBOB still felt like home. When people were much different and people that were here that are no longer here had such an impact on my spiritual development.

But I can wish and hope for that all I want it will never happen and I can never have those moments in time back....

What I will do now I do not know just getting to this point of actually acknowledging this to myself has been painful enough and depressing ....

Actually I feel stupid right now for not having seen this way before now.... only took me two years. I am kind of slow sometimes and can be stubborn in case some of you haven't yet noticed...

anyway for some reason I just thought I would add that in ... it is just my personal thoughts

 

[MewtwoX]

They're not being seperated from the group... there would be an area open for EVERYONE... that is not segregation.

...and then there's a set of forums that only Christians can access, which was the root of the "segregationary" claim.

Especially when so many Christians spend all of their time in the Christians Only section...

Frankly, I want to get some understanding of the Christian mindset beyond simple apologetics. A kind of understanding that comes from discussion and, in some cases, mild debate.

 

[CaDan]

what do you mean by "they are above the nonbelievers"?

Do you mean that because we have been washed in the blood of the Lamb?

Remember, you were a stranger in the Land of Egypt.