At Crossroads -- Cf's Vision Discussion Thread - Please Vote in Poll Thread

[heymikey80]

God didn't tell us to beat them into submission by whacking them upside the head with the Bible either.

Hm, kimber1, this subthread is the quintessential reason to me why we should have a separation between Christians training Christians, and Christians proclaiming Christianity.

You're trying to get an implicit meaning through to someone. Yet when you voice it -- or when RaggedRobin does -- or when MartinM does -- it will be quite a strong thing to describe. Probably offensive.

Yet if you don't get this across, it comes across in the connotations. Really it's occurring because RaggedRobin doesn't see the connotation. She's not even thinking along those lines.

So if you bring it up, the frenzy is fed: the connotation becomes denotation. It becomes much more forceful.

If you don't bring it up, RR is mystified by the responses -- or is blindsided by someone else making it explicit.

Better an isolated discussion where you could make the point explicit without forcing it into debate and thereby implying that RR is aware and intending what's going on in the connotations.

Ah, for the return of ThirdVoice.

 

[kimber1]

I thought we were talking about the vision for cf and moderation happened to be ONE of the subjects being discussed but not the only one

and the bottom line, some Christians here think they are above the nonbelievers SIMPLY bc they're Christian. they say they can't be competent mods bc they couldn't possibly know how to give good advice adn some Christians here would like nothing more thna to shove them back into their little dark corners.

i'm ashamed to be a Christian today.

 

[MartinM]

If the insinuation of bigotry is that Christianity is a more noble and spiritually pure paradigm than atheism...

...no, that isn't it at all. Have you been reading the thread?

 

[rushingwind62]

be that as it may, it has absolutely nothing to do with their ability to mod.

tell me would you allow a non christian into your church as a decon or elder? Of course not!! Just as they are overseers so are mods. They oversee a christian based forum. It is about accountability, not of ones self but rather accountability to God. I know this isn't a church in many eyes but my Bible tells where two or more are gathered in my name I am in the midst of them. Church is a place for edification. CF is a place of edification. So in my eyes it is a church.

 

[Debi1967]

Hm, kimber1, this subthread is the quintessential reason to me why we should have a separation between Christians training Christians, and Christians proclaiming Christianity.

You're trying to get an implicit meaning through to someone. Yet when you voice it -- or when RaggedRobin does -- or when MartinM does -- it will be quite a strong thing to describe. Probably offensive.

Yet if you don't get this across, it comes across in the connotations. Really it's occurring because RaggedRobin doesn't see the connotation. She's not even thinking along those lines.

Better an isolated discussion where you could make the point explicit without forcing it into debate and thereby implying that RR is aware and intending what's going on in the connotations.

Ah, for the return of ThirdVoice.

That is because I am trying to save something not trying to beat them into submission .....Therefore my connotation is to preserve and that is what I am trying to do .... No offense to anyone

 

[boughtwithaprice]

Option 2 is horrible, as it would turn it back to the old CF, where christians caused more harm than good.

Option 1 would be ok if we did not change the name. It would still be christian forums, and I believe closer to the Gospel than option 2.

 

[FriendsFellowship]

but we are not talking about that now Kim

Are we still talking about non-Christians moderating Christian's sections?

I thought we were talking about the vision for cf and moderation happened to be ONE of the subjects being discussed but not the only one

Now we're talking about what we're talking about!

 

[Lisa0315]

tell me would you allow a non christian into your church as a decon or elder? Of course not!! Just as they are overseers so are mods. They oversee a christian based forum. It is about accountability, not of ones self but rather accountability to God. I know this isn't a church in many eyes but my Bible tells where two or more are gathered in my name I am in the midst of them. Church is a place for edification. CF is a place of edification. So in my eyes it is a church.

In that case, atheists never should have been allowed in to begin with. When the decision was made to allow non-Christians to become members, we stopped being a Church for edification and became a mission.

Lisa

 

[kimber1]

tell me would you allow a non christian into your church as a decon or elder? Of course not!! Just as they are overseers so are mods. They oversee a christian based forum. It is about accountability, not of ones self but rather accountability to God. I know this isn't a church in many eyes but my Bible tells where two or more are gathered in my name I am in the midst of them. Church is a place for edification. CF is a place of edification. So in my eyes it is a church.

CF IS NOT A CHURCH!
CF IS NOT A CHURCH!
CF IS NOT A CHURCH!
CF IS NOT A CHURCH!
CF IS NOT A CHURCH!
CF IS NOT A CHURCH!
CF IS NOT A CHURCH!
CF IS NOT A CHURCH!
CF IS NOT A CHURCH!
CF IS NOT A CHURCH!
CF IS NOT A CHURCH!
CF IS NOT A CHURCH!
CF IS NOT A CHURCH!
CF IS NOT A CHURCH!
CF IS NOT A CHURCH!
CF IS NOT A CHURCH!
CF IS NOT A CHURCH!
CF IS NOT A CHURCH!
CF IS NOT A CHURCH!

 

[ScottBot]

...no, that isn't it at all. Have you been reading the thread?

Yes, and I for the life of me cannot figure out what the charge of bigotry is based on, so therefore I have to make the assumption. Bad form, I know, but its all I have to work with.

 

[GraceInHim]

I like the take on it in Luke 14:15-24, especially verses 21 - 23 :

21 So that servant came, and shewed his lord these things. Then the master of the house being angry said to his servant, Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in hither the poor, and the maimed, and the halt, and the blind.

22 And the servant said, Lord, it is done as thou hast commanded, and yet there is room.

23 And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled.

I know this post is off topic but in light of what you posted here, this passage came to mind and of anything ever written in the Word, this told me there was hope for someone like me. I have been one of those in the streets and hedges.

 

[Debi1967]

CF IS NOT A CHURCH!
CF IS NOT A CHURCH!
CF IS NOT A CHURCH!
CF IS NOT A CHURCH!
CF IS NOT A CHURCH!
CF IS NOT A CHURCH!
CF IS NOT A CHURCH!
CF IS NOT A CHURCH!
CF IS NOT A CHURCH!
CF IS NOT A CHURCH!
CF IS NOT A CHURCH!
CF IS NOT A CHURCH!
CF IS NOT A CHURCH!
CF IS NOT A CHURCH!
CF IS NOT A CHURCH!
CF IS NOT A CHURCH!
CF IS NOT A CHURCH!
CF IS NOT A CHURCH!
CF IS NOT A CHURCH!

I respect that is your opinion Kim but I find it personally unfortunate that you do not see CF as a ministry.

 

[rushingwind62]

CF IS NOT A CHURCH!
CF IS NOT A CHURCH!
CF IS NOT A CHURCH!
CF IS NOT A CHURCH!
CF IS NOT A CHURCH!
CF IS NOT A CHURCH!
CF IS NOT A CHURCH!
CF IS NOT A CHURCH!
CF IS NOT A CHURCH!
CF IS NOT A CHURCH!
CF IS NOT A CHURCH!
CF IS NOT A CHURCH!
CF IS NOT A CHURCH!
CF IS NOT A CHURCH!
CF IS NOT A CHURCH!
CF IS NOT A CHURCH!
CF IS NOT A CHURCH!
CF IS NOT A CHURCH!
CF IS NOT A CHURCH!

a church is not a building!!!!! It is a group of believers gathered together!

 

[Mary_Magdalene]

things we need:

1) Clear, strong Christian-only leadership
2) a lot of room to witness
3) a warning system so there is no anarchy
4) no wiki...the rules are clear and biblical
5) CF stays named CHRISTIAN FORUMS
6) we allow everyone access to the forums, regardless of faith icon

Perfect!

 

[Lisa0315]

The Charge of Bigotry is based on allowing non-Christians onto the CF bus but making them sit in the back. They are to only drink from atheist water fountains, go to atheist schools, and there is a great fear that they may rape our souls.

Now that I think about it, I am pretty sure there were many Christians quoting Scripture to keep blacks in their "place" during the Civil Rights Movement.

Lisa

 

[heymikey80]

That is because I am trying to save something not trying to beat them into submission .....Therefore my connotation is to preserve and that is what I am trying to do .... No offense to anyone

Yep. I could see that. It's what's getting implied into your words, not what you meant, that's being opposed.

 

[MartinM]

but I do not think I am putting pearls before as swine otherwise I would not try

To be honest, I get the impression we're talking past each other to some extent. I don't think you'd actually agree with what you said you agreed with if you understood it to mean what I understood it to mean.

Yeah, that was clear.

 

[ScottBot]

a church is not a building!!!!! It is a group of believers gathered together!

and in this case "believers" is defined as someone who believes in something.

I believe I can fly, I believe I can touch the sky.
I think about it every night and day, I spread my wings and fly away....

 

[drstevej]

Observations: If the present vote holds (roughly 60/40 for option #2), I will not be surprised. In fact it would likely be larger but hundreds of conservatives found other sites after 7-7-7 as measured by membership stats.

What will be interesting is Erwin's reaction if option #2 is the majority position. Frankly, I am not sure what that means. A ton of work has been done by staff since 7-7-7 and determining what option #2 changes is not clear. Also it is unclear who does the change. Does Erwin take a more active role or is WIKI a feature in option #2.

In ancient CF when I was on executive Erwin was a master at balancing conservative vs liberal, Protestant vs. Catholic, etc. It was not always easy or pretty, but his instincts kept the plate spinning with less wobble than when he has been away.

The challenge is to find a way to run CF and keep a 60/40 split from rupturing CF. I am not sure there is a solution that does not involve Erwin's active involvement. There has to be an ultimate leader of an entity this complex and large. And given enough time the leader's soul will be transmitted through his leadership.

So Crossroads is a good metaphor and the famous Robert Johnson song seems appropriate:

I went down to the crossroads, fell down on my knees.
I went down to the crossroads, fell down on my knees.
Asked the lord above for mercy, "save CF if you please."
​

I am praying for wisdom for Erwin as he interprets and implements whatever the poll concludes.

This has been a special place. Yet history shows that ministries come and go dependent upon leadership.

drstevej

 

[kimber1]

yes we know your opinion and I question why you are even on staff with that kind of attitude toward this site that you do not see it as a ministry

good thing erwin sees my being on staff differently than you