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Matt Crouch
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HisBelovedMelody
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Ya know, I don't know what they DO do with their money. If they are doing fraudulant things, I would be disappointed for sure. Stuff to chew on I suppose.
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Ringo84
Separation of Church and State expert
- Jul 31, 2006
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I've been reading this article with interest. TBN, which I only barely consider Christian, is a big issue for me. I don't like their business practices and I have some BIG problems with WOF doctrine, though I won't get into them here.
I know I'm not Pentecostal, but I have something to say....so to blazes with it.
First of all, I think that the accusation of hearsay is probably valid. We should distinguish between proven facts and opinion. I don't know Matt Crouch personally, so I can't speak about his character. I do know, however, that TBN is almost constantly asking for money, and I have read articles stating that rather than using donated money for the minstry, they buy mansions, personal items, and twelve-person dinners at expensive restaurants. I'll provide a link in case anyone thinks I made it up.
If their only problem was constantly begging for money, that'd be one thing. But their entire doctrine seems to surround the belief that God wants us to be rich - to have things. I know like I sound like a fundamentalist here, but honestly - there's barely any Christianity to it! It's all greed - all about wealth. And they use such deceptive - and h*rectical - theology to fool people into thinking that by donating money to a shady - at best - Christian TV network, they're going to be healed, or saved. That's exactly what Tilton used to do!
I don't want to get into a long theology debate here (maybe I've blown any hopes of that), but putting that all together, I don't trust TBN, I don't like TBN, and I especially don't like the people who run TBN. Which is why I can believe that they use their ministry money for themselves.
We've talked about discernment. I don't know if I have it or not, but I don't get a good feeling from TBN. They come across more like sheisters who are trying to sell me beachfront property in Nevada than honest preachers who care about the gospel. That's just my opinion.
Finally, I'd like to say to those who immediately called "secular" news organizations "anti-Christian" for reporting about TBN: you shouldn't be so quick to assume. Aren't you glad that the so-called "secular" news organizations care enough to report on Christian leaders who may be dishonest? It's not "anti-Christian" to call a spade a spade or a sheister a sheister.
Ringo
I know I'm not Pentecostal, but I have something to say....so to blazes with it.
First of all, I think that the accusation of hearsay is probably valid. We should distinguish between proven facts and opinion. I don't know Matt Crouch personally, so I can't speak about his character. I do know, however, that TBN is almost constantly asking for money, and I have read articles stating that rather than using donated money for the minstry, they buy mansions, personal items, and twelve-person dinners at expensive restaurants. I'll provide a link in case anyone thinks I made it up.
If their only problem was constantly begging for money, that'd be one thing. But their entire doctrine seems to surround the belief that God wants us to be rich - to have things. I know like I sound like a fundamentalist here, but honestly - there's barely any Christianity to it! It's all greed - all about wealth. And they use such deceptive - and h*rectical - theology to fool people into thinking that by donating money to a shady - at best - Christian TV network, they're going to be healed, or saved. That's exactly what Tilton used to do!
I don't want to get into a long theology debate here (maybe I've blown any hopes of that), but putting that all together, I don't trust TBN, I don't like TBN, and I especially don't like the people who run TBN. Which is why I can believe that they use their ministry money for themselves.
We've talked about discernment. I don't know if I have it or not, but I don't get a good feeling from TBN. They come across more like sheisters who are trying to sell me beachfront property in Nevada than honest preachers who care about the gospel. That's just my opinion.
Finally, I'd like to say to those who immediately called "secular" news organizations "anti-Christian" for reporting about TBN: you shouldn't be so quick to assume. Aren't you glad that the so-called "secular" news organizations care enough to report on Christian leaders who may be dishonest? It's not "anti-Christian" to call a spade a spade or a sheister a sheister.
Ringo
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~RENEE~
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I am going to say this one last thing about this foolishness then I will leave this thread do not bother with reaplying to this I will not come back on this particular thread as it is very judgemental to say the least.
If I was to put something on my website about either one of you whether or not it was the truth people would believe it because it is in writing. It is sad that people will make judgements just because they either hear or read about a thing then instead of deciding fro themselves they make up their minds according to what they read or heard. Again where is the proof. The media hates God and everything that has to do with God. Because the media is wordly. And the world hates God and you if you are God's. If they love you then examine your relationship with God. Heresay is not admissable in court. That is all you have with complaint against tbn and the crouchs. So then you have nothing. Cept ungodly judgements. Whatever judgement that you judge with is the same judgement that you will be judged with. matthew 7:1-5
If I was to put something on my website about either one of you whether or not it was the truth people would believe it because it is in writing. It is sad that people will make judgements just because they either hear or read about a thing then instead of deciding fro themselves they make up their minds according to what they read or heard. Again where is the proof. The media hates God and everything that has to do with God. Because the media is wordly. And the world hates God and you if you are God's. If they love you then examine your relationship with God. Heresay is not admissable in court. That is all you have with complaint against tbn and the crouchs. So then you have nothing. Cept ungodly judgements. Whatever judgement that you judge with is the same judgement that you will be judged with. matthew 7:1-5
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Hi Ringo...I'm sure you have seen my other thread on this; "TBN: Prove it".
If you do have a link, please post it there--I'm trying to create a repository of articles and such that might have proof on these accusations.
And Word of Faith is about confidence[faith] in God; taking what He says seriously.
And His goodness.
Whatever misrepresentations you may see on TBN is NOT the totality of all WOF everywhere.
If you disagree with some 'core' teachers like Jesse Duplantis and Kenneth Copeland, well, that's your choice.
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dkbwarrior
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This attitude has been around since the time of the disciples. Jesus had a different view:
6Now when Jesus was in Bethany, in the house of Simon the leper,
7There came unto him a woman having an alabaster box of very precious ointment, and poured it on his head, as he sat at meat.
8But when his disciples saw it, they had indignation, saying, To what purpose is this waste?
9For this ointment might have been sold for much, and given to the poor.
10When Jesus understood it, he said unto them, Why trouble ye the woman? for she hath wrought a good work upon me. 11For ye have the poor always with you; but me ye have not always.
-Matthew 26:6-11
3And being in Bethany in the house of Simon the leper, as he sat at meat, there came a woman having an alabaster box of ointment of spikenard very precious; and she brake the box, and poured it on his head.
4And there were some that had indignation within themselves, and said, Why was this waste of the ointment made?
5For it might have been sold for more than three hundred pence, and have been given to the poor. And they murmured against her.
6And Jesus said, Let her alone; why trouble ye her? she hath wrought a good work on me. 7For ye have the poor with you always, and whensoever ye will ye may do them good: but me ye have not always.
-Mark 14:4-7
You can give to the poor anytime you want, Matt Crouch is not stopping you.
I repeat the words of Jesus, 'Let him alone'.
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- Jan 10, 2006
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It is not glorifying God that a Christian is driving a 240k car. The verses you post deal with giving to God and honoring and worshiping Jesus. If that car were given to him, fine, but if he used donation money to buy it, woe unto him.
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jrlinz
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I probably would not drive a 240K car, no matter how much money God blessed me with. Not so sure it does not glorify God, though. My idea of the message of the Gospel is not to drive around in a 20 year old pickup truck that has been wrecked several times over, and repaired by amateurs, belching smoke, rattling, rusted, and multi-colored according to whichever color primer was on sale at the time of the repair. I do want it known that my God is NOT the God of almost enough, or just enough, but of MORE THAN ENOUGH. God blesses, and He gives wealth.
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HisBelovedMelody
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nah, we don't know much, but how to sit and criticize! SO much easier to do that than to ask God to open their eyes! I mean, come on!!
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HisBelovedMelody
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darlin', that was a general statement, but since you jumped on it...were you convicted?? Take it easy sweetie. Really, it is alright.
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HisBelovedMelody
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and I am not the one obsessed with Matt and Donald! You guys should be more concerned about their salvation.
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Tamara224
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You just can't win for losing, huh?
1) Obsessed is a very strong word. How do you conclude 'obsession'? If we count the number of posts in both of these threads, I think you come out ahead.
2) My concern for people's salvation does not cancel out my concern for Truth or my concern for those people being led astray by lies. I am concerned with the sheep being fleeced by the supposed 'shepherds'. The shepherds should know better. It concerns me that they are in error, but it concerns me more that they are killing the sheep they are supposed to be caring for. My heart is for the sheep.
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