Matt Crouch

[GodismyRefuge]

With the attitude of many here, were Paul Coruch to release TBN's financial records, it would be a disaster. Like a Salem witch hunt, you would NOT be looking for any good thing. And, so, you would not find it. Every little molehill would be blown into a mountain, just as is happening now. And you would be far, far too blinded by bitterness, envy and self-righteousness (and swayed by propaganda, and gossip) to see the problem in your logic, even when it were pointed out to you, sort of like now.

Honestly, if Paul would release his financial statements, it would simply confirm what many already are aware of. They are obvious in their indulgence and excess. I do not donate to TBN because they purchase Bentley's and mansions, unnecessarily.

 

[Ringo84]

First of all, Gamaliel's advice comes within the context of saving human life and has nothing to do with pointing out questionable handling of financial assets. No Christian I know wants to see any member of the TBN family physically harmed. Acts 5:33 specifically says that the council was ready to "slay" the apostles for the things they said. Gamaliel's interference was no doubt intended to assuage further violence. The New Testament also shows us that the apostle Paul, one of Gamaliel's prize students, did not even heed his former schoolmaster's advice. In fact, Paul made it a point to personally confront those he felt were in error.

May I conclude by saying that even though people who are sympathetic to the cause of TBN may cite Gamaliel as "proof" that Christians should not critique such ministries, the fact is that these same people have had no problem criticizing Christian ministries that hold other professed Christian ministries accountable.

If one wishes to interpret Gamaliel's comment in such a manner, they need to recognize that it goes both ways.

Yours truly in Christ,
sojourner

I would also submit that because TBN is a Christian organization (supposedly), I think that it deserves more scrutiny than other organizations. It's not because I'm paranoid or have it in for Christian evangelists. It's
because religion can easily be manipulated for one's own gains.

And as for TBN releasing its financial records, I would say that we require big corporations such as Microsoft to release their financial records. If we hold big corporations to that kind of accountability, why shouldn't we hold a Christian organization to the same? To not do so would be unfair.
Ringo

 

[Ringo84]

But I don't think it's wrong to be 'rich'. And that last sentence makes it sound as if God DOESN'T want us to be rich.

Whatever your interpretation of Job, remember how he was BEFORE all that happened, and AFTER...he was RICH on the earth and probably got a better family too

Imagine if just a FEW mature Christians were as wealthy as Bill Gates...

Jesus said before He returned the gospel of the kingdom shall be preached throughout all the earth.

I know for a fact that Kenneth Copeland AND Bill Winston have stated that prosperity is about discemination, not accumulation.

God wants people to be open to receive His blessings...to have enough for themselves and 'overflow' to speed up the spreading of the gospel.

THAT is prosperity IMO...

Well, being rich isn't a sin. But I think that prosperity should be used more for the poor and for Christian ministries than for ourselves - as someone else pointed out. The TBN people seem to believe that it's all about financial wealth.
Ringo

 

[Ringo84]

With the attitude of many here, were Paul Coruch to release TBN's financial records, it would be a disaster. Like a Salem witch hunt, you would NOT be looking for any good thing. And, so, you would not find it. Every little molehill would be blown into a mountain, just as is happening now. And you would be far, far too blinded by bitterness, envy and self-righteousness (and swayed by propaganda, and gossip) to see the problem in your logic, even when it were pointed out to you, sort of like now.

You assume a lot. You seem to think that this is all about jealousy and bitterness. It's not.

If TBN is being dishonest in its business dealings, it deserves to be punished. We hold "secular" corportations and organizations to that standard. Why not a Christian organization?

It's not unreasonable to ask TBN to release its financial records either. Again, we hold "secular" organizations to financial accountability. Christians who donate to TBN deserve to know exactly how their hard-earned money is being spent.

This is no witch-hunt. I, along with many others, find it odd that the Crouchs' entire belief system seems to revolve around money. And all the cases they make for people giving them money are identical or nearly identical to the points Robert Tilton made. I know because I've watched enough "Success-N-Life"s and Farting Preacher videos to know. It's like God's an ATM machine; you put in enough money and he'll just richly bless you. What does the creator of our universe need with our money?

I have been feeling for a long time that TBN isn't on the level. I know that that a gut feeling doesn't amount to proof, but when I watch TBN, I get the feeling that a group of sheisters are trying to sell me something.
Ringo

 

[BenAdam]

Well, being rich isn't a sin. But I think that prosperity should be used more for the poor and for Christian ministries than for ourselves - as someone else pointed out. The TBN people seem to believe that it's all about financial wealth.
Ringo

being rich isn't a sin, and neither is it wrong to make a living from the gospel, but there is such a thing as excess and misrepresentation

 

[Ringo84]

being rich isn't a sin, and neither is it wrong to make a living from the gospel, but there is such a thing as excess and misrepresentation

If you're talking about TBN in terms of excess, YES.
Ringo

 

[BenAdam]

If you're talking about TBN in terms of excess, YES.
Ringo

I mean anyone that can live a lavish lifestyle of the donations of others. Now if they were upfront about it, that would be fine. But I wonder how many people would knowingly give to someone that would use the money to dock their boat in Balboa Harbor?

 

[Alpine]

I mean anyone that can live a lavish lifestyle of the donations of others. Now if they were upfront about it, that would be fine. But I wonder how many people would knowingly give to someone that would use the money to dock their boat in Balboa Harbor?

That's my problem. I've watched parts of sharathons. When they beg for money, they show video of Paul Crouch at a transmitter in a foreign land or they talk about all the souls their bringing into the kingdom. They never mention taking tens of millions of that donated money and sinking it into a division that is losing all that money!

It is the misrepresentation of where that money is going that angers me.

 

[BenAdam]

That's my problem. I've watched parts of sharathons. When they beg for money, they show video of Paul Crouch at a transmitter in a foreign land or they talk about all the souls their bringing into the kingdom. They never mention taking tens of millions of that donated money and sinking it into a division that is losing all that money!

It is the misrepresentation of where that money is going that angers me.

Me too. I want Christian TV. I was watching TBN last night in fact, someone I respect. But I won't give to TBN.

 

[JTM3]

being rich isn't a sin, and neither is it wrong to make a living from the gospel, but there is such a thing as excess and misrepresentation

I suppose "excess" and "misrepresentation" are just about as definable as "general welfare"

 

[GodismyRefuge]

Seriously, the world is literally dying. The world is being inundated by the Islamic faith. We need to be Christian and preach the gospel, through the word and with our lives.

People are dying from disease and starvation. How can a minister of the gospel possibly justify a lavish lifestyle especially from those who donate toward the work of the christian station and spreading of the gospel? If there is excess in the account, because all of the airtime expenses are paid in full, then feed the hungry and help with medicines and other medical supplies for those in need. Help the children in the orphanages. It is limitless as to what can be done with the money that is available to the Crouch's. Instead they purchase a mansion in Beverly Hills or wherever they live. I would hope that they would be investing in their reward in heaven and hearing 'Well done, thou faithful servant'.

Sorry, TBN is not represetative of Christianity.

 

[CrazyforYeshua]

You know, every year, in January, we have a Congregational Meeting at church. The main thing is giving out all the financial info from the past year. How much came in, where it went, how much we paid the Pastors (2 that are on staff), how much went to other ministries, etc., etc. If TBN would do that, everything would be fine. The fact that they won't, seems alittle suspect to me.
If they are above board, no problem. If they are trying to hide what they are doing with donated money,then there is a problem.

 

[Ringo84]

If TBN would do that, no problem. The fact that they won't, seems alittle suspect to me.
If they are above board, no problem. If they are trying to hide what they are doing with donated money, there is a problem.

EXACTLY.
Ringo

 

[HisBelovedMelody]

*gasp! I was just watching TBN and um..shoot, what is the show...Paul Jr. was on there EXPLAINING what the are doing with their finances!! HOW dare he!?!?!? BEING honest ON air??? *gasp! Don't know if I can handle it... Now to think of the name of the show..hang on...ah, yes, Behind the Scenes!! IMAGINE that!

 

[JTM3]

Huh, what?

Was my post deleted?

 

[msbojingles]

Huh, what?

Was my post deleted?

what, did you fart or something? are we allowed to say "fart?"

 

[Alpine]

*gasp! I was just watching TBN and um..shoot, what is the show...Paul Jr. was on there EXPLAINING what the are doing with their finances!! HOW dare he!?!?!? BEING honest ON air??? *gasp! Don't know if I can handle it... Now to think of the name of the show..hang on...ah, yes, Behind the Scenes!! IMAGINE that!

They always do that on that show. It's kind of a "bragging" type of show. Usually they have Paul Sr or the wife going to one of the transmitters or shops and talking about where the gifts of the viewers is going. It's not the same as disclosing 100% of where the money is being funneled too...

 

[Tatu]

If TBN needs to tone down anti-Islamic rhetoric, to get more broadcasting access into muslim nations to present them with the gospel, couldn't it be a fair trade off? It's a possibility.

As for the movie money, everything has been done legally, and the Crouch family and its supporters believe they have done nothing morally or ethically wrong. You may disagree with that, but that's life.

I look forward to more Christian movies. It's pretty exciting that FoxFaith has decided to produce up to a dozen Christian movies per year. HalleluJah.

 

[dkbwarrior]

God is glorified through many things, the kind of car you drive is not one of them. Do you think Solomon's wealth really glorified God? Changed lives glorified God, that is point about the woman that anointed His feet, if you think it is about the cost of what she used, well, we have no common ground for discussion.

I'm sorry, but I thought it was you who thought it was about the cost of the car, or should I say the ointment?

I thought I said that I could care less, and you said it was too expensive...

I agree with you here, if you think it is about the cost of the car, or the cost of the ointment, we have no common ground for discussion...

 

[dkbwarrior]

Honestly, if Paul would release his financial statements, it would simply confirm what many already are aware of. They are obvious in their indulgence and excess. I do not donate to TBN because they purchase Bentley's and mansions, unnecessarily.

I'm guessing you would not have had anything to do with Job, and David or Solomon either?