Iraqi Dead May Total 600,000

[rosewaning]

You really believe that? I thought you didn't like Saddam Hussain.

No, Saddam Hussain was a very bad guy. Of course, he's just one man. The Iraqi people -- those are the ones you were calling terrorists -- they were not terrorists. They were regular people.

And for a while, in the early 1980s, Saddam was so corrupted by his friends, Ronald Reagan, George HW Bush and Donald Rumsfeld, that, yes, it's true, he did some pretty horrible things. Back in the 1980s. Reagan and HW provided him with weapons, and he used the weapons.

Then HW stabbed him in the back, sending April Glaspie to green-light the invasion of Kuwait, saying, oh, your friends Bush and James Baker are okay with this, we know you have your Arab-Arab disputes, but we have no position on them, we just want to keep good relations.

So Saddam took the bait -- and got beat for the name of Haliburton..

And then things got quiet. For over a decade. No more genocides. Quiet. Peace.

Until W came along, and created the worst hotbed of terrorism that ever existed. And now, years after Saddam is long gone, the situation is just getting increasingly worse.

Even the Generals and the Military say, the situation in Iraq is making terrorism worse, not better.

Charlie

You're a very convincing storyteller, but could you perhaps provide some linkage to support all of the peace and tranquility form 1991-2002?

One of the instructors at my undergrad lived in Iraq until 2004, and didn't seem convinced that things were as tranquil pre-invasion as you are suggesting

 

[rosewaning]

I'm surprised no one's commented on my critique of the report...

And I will say for the record, of course, any loss of life is unfortunate. Whether its 1, 15, 2,000, 50,000, 100,000, or 655,000. It doesn't matter. However, when it is obvious that someone is willfully misleading people by exaggerating the number of casualties is an insult to every person who has lost their lives. One should never play politics with human lives.

 

[dlamberth]

sorry. miss-post

 

[dlamberth]

I'm surprised no one's commented on my critique of the report...

And I will say for the record, of course, any loss of life is unfortunate. Whether its 1, 15, 2,000, 50,000, 100,000, or 655,000. It doesn't matter. However, when it is obvious that someone is willfully misleading people by exaggerating the number of casualties is an insult to every person who has lost their lives. One should never play politics with human lives.

If your talking about the 655,000 study, no one is willfully misleading people. The results are what they found from the research and what the researcher believe to be true.

.

 

[ScottBot]

You really believe that? I thought you didn't like Saddam Hussain.

No, Saddam Hussain was a very bad guy. Of course, he's just one man. The Iraqi people -- those are the ones you were calling terrorists -- they were not terrorists. They were regular people.

And for a while, in the early 1980s, Saddam was so corrupted by his friends, Ronald Reagan, George HW Bush and Donald Rumsfeld, that, yes, it's true, he did some pretty horrible things. Back in the 1980s. Reagan and HW provided him with weapons, and he used the weapons.

Then HW stabbed him in the back, sending April Glaspie to green-light the invasion of Kuwait, saying, oh, your friends Bush and James Baker are okay with this, we know you have your Arab-Arab disputes, but we have no position on them, we just want to keep good relations.

So Saddam took the bait -- and got beat for the name of Haliburton..

And then things got quiet. For over a decade. No more genocides. Quiet. Peace.

Until W came along, and created the worst hotbed of terrorism that ever existed. And now, years after Saddam is long gone, the situation is just getting increasingly worse.

Even the Generals and the Military say, the situation in Iraq is making terrorism worse, not better.

Charlie

SO what do you propose as a solution, and what are the consequences?

 

[ScottBot]

1,000,000. 9,000,000. Infinity. They don't care.

As long as they get to sigh with extacy every time they see Bush and say, ah, he's such a great man.

Charlie

Oh! You're under the impression that I am a Limbaugh ditto-head, toe the line, woship Bush neo-con "compassionate" conservative Republican. Sorry, wrong on nearly all counts. I think the Bush has handled both foriegn and domestic affairs pretty horridly over the last 2 years. THe only thing he has done right are the tax breaks.

 

[dlamberth]

THe only thing he has done right are the tax breaks.

...Which has contributed to our very high national debt. Bush's fiscal responsibility is pretty bad as well.

.

 

[ScottBot]

...Which has contributed to our very high national debt. Bush's fiscal responsibility is pretty bad as well.

.

THe tax breaks have increase revenue and reduced by half our national deficit 4 years ahead of schedule. That's pretty good math considering the economy he assumed and the faulty, irresponsible war he's been waging without the consent of 90%+ of the Senate.

 

[dlamberth]

THe tax breaks have increase revenue and reduced by half our national deficit 4 years ahead of schedule.

So you agree that the national debt is still growing by leaps and bounds?

America owes close around 8.5 trillion dollars right now, and growing.

 

[ScottBot]

So you agree that the national debt is still growing by leaps and bounds?

America owes close around 8.5 trillion dollars right now, and growing.

I agree. which is why we should get back on the gold standard for currency. Our currency is only
valuable as long as we are indebted.

 

[CCGirl]

Listen/Watch

This should help explain the statistics to those who doubt/do not understand the methodology. Funny how when the USofA used the same methodology in its own studies in Bosnia, well, the tune was a little different!

........but I just want to say that what we did, this cluster survey approach, is the standard way of measuring mortality in very poor countries where the government isn’t very functional or in times of war. And when UNICEF goes out and measures mortality in any developing country, this is what they do. When the U.S. government went at the end of the war in Kosovo or went at the end of the war in Afghanistan and the U.S. government measured the death rate, this is how they did it. And most ironically, the U.S. government has been spending millions of dollars per year, through something called the Smart Initiative, to train NGOs and UN workers to do cluster surveys to measure mortality in times of wars and disasters.

So, I think we used a very standard method. I think our results are couched appropriately in the relative imprecision of [inaudible]. It could conceivably be as few as 400,000 deaths. So we’re upfront about that. We don’t know the exact number. We just know the range, and we’re very, very confident about both the method and the results.

 

[MachZer0]

How many Iraqis were involved in those attacks?

Terrorism existed before Bush, but not the way it does now. Bush took Iraq and turned it into a bigger and better Afghanistan.

Charlie

It doesn't matter since many, if not most, of the deaths in Iraq currently are caused by Iraqi terrorists.

 

[CCGirl]

It doesn't matter since many, if not most, of the deaths in Iraq currently are caused by Iraqi terrorists.

Link please!

 

[dlamberth]

It doesn't matter since many, if not most, of the deaths in Iraq currently are caused by Iraqi terrorists.

Which this Administration’s fiasco in Iraq created by the way.

 

[dlamberth]

How many people has the President killed? I think it grossly unfair and rather ignorant to cay that everyone who has died in the world in 2003, 2004, 2005 and 2006 thusfar is the responsibility of the President. I'll assume he is guilty of the Tsunami and Katrina because he didn't sign the Kyoto Accord either.

God has control of natural events like the Tsunami and Katrina. But in things of war, Bush, being the "decider" that he is, he made the decision to invade Iraq. In that moment of decision, Bush condemned a lot of people to death...plain and simple!


.

 

[MachZer0]

God has control of natural events like the Tsunami and Katrina. But in things of war, Bush, being the "decider" that he is, he made the decision to invade Iraq. In that moment of decision, Bush condemned a lot of people to death...plain and simple!


.

Let's not blame those "freedom fighters" who are pulling the trigger, building the bombs, driving those bomb laden trucks into crowds. No, let's blame America first.

 

[Yusuf Evans]

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/11/world/middleeast/11casualties.html

American citizens are responsible for these deaths. We allowed chaos to form in Iraq. May God have mercy on us.

Uh, no. The American citizens are not responsible for this; there are British citizens and those of other nations who allowed their leaders to participate in the war. Then of course, it's always blame America first.

 

[dlamberth]

Let's not blame those "freedom fighters" who are pulling the trigger, building the bombs, driving those bomb laden trucks into crowds. No, let's blame America first.

Under Saddam, in Iraq there were no terrorist driving around in car bombs, Saddam killed them all. It was this Administrations decisions that not only opened the opportunity for new terrorist in Iraq, our actions towards the Iraqi people even encouraged terrorism.

.

 

[MachZer0]

Under Saddam, in Iraq there were no terrorist driving around in car bombs, Saddam killed them all.

Evidence?

It was this Administrations decisions that not only opened the opportunity for new terrorist in Iraq, our actions towards the Iraqi people even encouraged terrorism.

.

Saddam killed far more than just terroists (given that you are correct about that while we wait for your evidence).

 

[Rik]

Bush's war has created terrorists.

Many of these "terrorists," in the alternate universe where Bush did not declare war, were regular people working regular jobs in peacetime Iraq, people who would stay as far away from Al Queda as possible, people who found Al Queda horrifying. Then, along comes Bush's invasion -- the greatest recruiting tool Al Queda could have ever wished for.

I'm not the only one who's certain that Bush's war has created more terrorists than it's killed. Many military officials and generals have said as much.

Charlie

Apparently you don't remember the video footage from September 12, 2001 with all those "regular people working jobs" all over the middle east out in the street celebrating, burning the American flag and holding signs praising OBL and AQ.

I'd say AQ wasn't having much of a recruiting problem before OIF began.