com7fy8 said:

I recall one translation saying to do "the first works". It does not say "at first".

"First" can be what was at the beginning. But, also, can it not mean the things which come first????

If they did what they were doing "at first", then they might go right on back to where they got themselves, from the first time.

Ones say if you keep repeating the same methods, you keep getting the same results.

If I go back to "where I left the Lord", I might just leave Him again. I need to be taken by God to where I will not leave Him and will do all He pleases to share with us.

And signs and wonders have not done this, it seems . . . though they are of God. We need to grow to where we go, with Jesus.

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This is a sad response...

I have seen life but few want it.

It is not about signs, it is about Love and where there is Love He reigns and He confirms His Word with signs.

I am here to talk about life and Love - conversation is welcome - argument so often destroys.

Shackles and chains on the workers are not a good look for foreign nationals looking to invest in the US.

Russia Follows Up Drone Attack on Poland by Threatening to Destroy Finland​

In a social media post from the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Medvedev issued a stark warning to Finland about “building a new ‘Mannerheim Line'” — referring to the Finnish defensive fortification built against the Soviet Union in WWII — saying that “confrontation with Russia can lead to the collapse of Finnish statehood — this time forever.”

“Unlike in 1944, no one will go soft on them this time,” Medvedev added. “As the saying goes, ‘sitä saa, mitä tilaa’ – you get
what you ask for.”

Only half his face was drooping, like from a stroke or Bell's palsy. Has he made an appearance today?

Judge issues nationwide block on Trump policy that cuts off Head Start for people in US illegally​

In issuing the preliminary injunction Thursday, Judge Ricardo Martinez said he saw no reason for a change to the interpretation of eligibility that has been in place for decades.

On the plus side, ICE is authorized to nab the kiddos at preschool.

Clare73 said:

The apostolic teaching (Gal 3:29) of Christ (Lk 10:16) disagrees:

". . .you are all one in Christ Jesus. If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed (i.e., Israel) and heirs according to the promise (Gal 3:16).

The true Israel who believes in her Messiah is not replaced, but is expanded, while the apostate Israel is cut off until it comes to faith in its Messiah (Ro 11:23).

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Your quotes have not a thing to do with the point you wished to make. The Abrahamic Promise guaranteed both national Israel and a company of nations who share the faith of Abraham.

The nations do not displace Israel, even if in the present age Israel has failed in their mission. The coming age may very well be Israel's opportunity to join the company of Christian nations who fulfill the promise God made to Abraham. All Israel needs to do is become a Christian nation, which will take place, I believe, at Christ's 2nd Coming. It will be Israel's 2nd chance.

Being "one in faith" does not prohibit distinctions of ethnicity. In fact, the promise God made to Abraham *requires* ethnic divisions. Oneness takes place *across ethnic lines.*

Israel is not "expanded" in their definition. Israel remains national Israel. If anything Israel is "added" to the company of nations who currently have faith.

rambot said:

Is he getting beat up really?

Kirk said a lot of awful things about a lot of people.

DO you expect people to take abuse from someone and then show reverence when they're dead?

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He spoke what he believed to be true and encouraged open discussion on controversial issues.

com7fy8 said:

Yes, Jesus did call attention to the signs and wonders in sending a message to John the Baptist, in order to confirm who Jesus is.

But something certain early church magnifiers do not mention is the part where Jesus says the poor have the Gospel preached to them, and blessed is the one not offended in Jesus.

And I offer, again, how Jesus said that to a person in doubt.

And elsewhere Jesus does say no sign will be given to certain people, except the sign of Jonah.

Also, we have how Abraham tells the rich man that the man's brothers would not believe even if one rose from the dead to talk with them.

So . . . yes, God might show signs and wonders; however, it is possible He knows they do not make the difference. And yet Jesus says if signs and wonders were shown in Sodom and Gomorrah . . . they would remain to His day.

So - I see how things work, however God has things work . . . with signs and without signs. He does not depend on either: with or without, I would say.

My point is the early church was not a mature church, right away. And at that earlier time of the early church, yes, there were signs and wonders. But the people were not mature, yet. And so, I am offering that we should not try to build things now to be like how things were while the church was new . . . not mature. We have mature people, now, including men who meet the description of 1 Timothy 3:1-10 which gives the qualifications of "a bishop".

And Peter did that wonder, of having the lame man walk, while Peter still was not a maturely sound and stable person. After all, in Galatians 2:11-13 we read how later, to my knowledge, Peter played the hypocrite, as did Barnabas . . . not what mature people would do, I would say. And yet, it does seem Barnabas, by then, was pretty mature or something like that, yet still able to do that.

So, in any case, what is really needed is all God does ***within*** us. And signs and wonders did not do that, and did not keep Peter and "even Barnabas" from playing the hypocrite.

So, we might give our main attention to what we need for God Himself to do, within us. Because even after all Peter and Barnabas did and witnessed . . . still . . .

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Mature church...

When I was privileged to be involved in bringing Jesus to the inner city folk we were hard pressed to find churches capable of supporting the converts because they were so raw.

The Pastor of my church said that churches were not within a bulls roar of what we were doing with them.

It was all about Love and faith and signs confirmed the Word as you read in Mark.

and grind exceedingly fine...

Nadine Menendez, wife of ex-New Jersey senator, sentenced to 4.5 years in prison​

Prosecutors said last month she played a “critical role” in the plot, selling his influence not “reluctantly, fleetingly, or on a small scale,” but “eagerly.”

But the 54-month sentence falls short of the 7-year prison term the government asked a judge to impose.

U.S. District Judge Sidney Stein granted leniency in part because of the trial she endured, her childhood in warworn Lebanon, a history of abusive romantic partners, her health conditions and her age, according to the Associated Press.

Servus said:

No when I saw he was 22 I thought "yep just as I suspected. When I saw that elderly guy getting arrested I thought "no way".

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Ryan Routh is pretty old.

Servus said:

Hopefully that will act as a deterrent.

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Doubtful - too many would like to go out in a blaze of glory while others willfully choose "suicide by cop".

It's surprising to me how far he actually got - 250 miles away.

Kennedy Center Fires Head of Jazz Programming ​

Kevin Struthers’ dismissal comes after three decades at the arts institution and follows other high-profile exits.

Struthers joined the Kennedy Center in 1995 and oversaw the artistic direction and day-to-day management of its jazz program, which includes the annual Mary Lou Williams Jazz Festival and Betty Carter’s Jazz Ahead residency for emerging artists.

Struthers’ firing is the latest in a wave of staffing changes since President Donald Trumpassumed control of the Kennedy Center earlier this year, installing allies on its board and in top leadership roles. Other recent changes include the August resignation of Jeffrey Finn, senior vice president of artistic programming, and the appointment of Stephen Nakagawa to lead dance programming after the previous team was laid off.

HARK! said:

There were several important points of contention; but the foundational underlying point of contention was that he was here illegally.

That was settled.

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Agreed.

And had the DHS deported him legally, we would not be having this discussion. Instead, they ignored a standing order and a judge and deported him to the El Salvador gulog....

BibleBeliever1611 said:

Not only is he allowing it but even commands so. Didn't God tell people to be fruitful and multiply?

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God's Word, when used, implies that Man carry out His instructions by the *power* of His Word. When we obey God we are choosing to live in partnership with God's Word, reflecting the nature of God in our own obedience to His Word.

For example, God may ask you to assume control over a village, and you would be right to do so in response to this Word of Command. But if an enemy asked you to do the same thing, you would not do so in response to the enemy's command, but only in response to God's Command. Even if we carry out God's Command in an ungodly way we should not be carrying out God's Command properly.

So, just the general command to Mankind to multiply and be fruitful, fill the earth, etc. must not leave out the equally important Command to live in God's Image and Likeness. There is no sense carrying out the task of raising children if we do so devoted to Satan or to our own glory.

Carl Emerson said:

They were exhorted to return to 'first love' and do what they did at first.

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I recall one translation saying to do "the first works". It does not say "at first".

"First" can be what was at the beginning. But, also, can it not mean the things which come first????

If they did what they were doing "at first", then they might go right on back to where they got themselves, from the first time.

Ones say if you keep repeating the same methods, you keep getting the same results.

If I go back to "where I left the Lord", I might just leave Him again. I need to be taken by God to where I will not leave Him and will do all He pleases to share with us.

And signs and wonders have not done this, it seems . . . though they are of God. We need to grow to where we go, with Jesus.

bèlla said:

There are 8 billion people in the world and everyone received a morsel from Him or more. The only one who can make that claim is Jesus Christ. I find it interesting that you receive no insight on what to do and only the other. Which doesn’t seem evenhanded or indicative of an aspect of His Person. He‘s called the Counselor after all. We see similar examples in the bible of many being led towards or away from something which contradicts your experience.

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It's wait. He told me in a dream to keep my word, as He will keep his.

bèlla said:

Sainthood? What do you mean by that? It doesn’t appear you’re catholic. How did you make a leap like this?

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Intuition. I didn't know but did things all the same. And these things are biblical.

bèlla said:

I don’t know what extraordinary abilities you believe you have. Given your comment on another thread it seems our conception of the Holy Spirit is not aligned.

God gave me prophetic dreams and visions. The Holy Spirits reacts to everything evil, even when people conceal it. I always know, even without thinking, or observing. But the two are required me in my earthly life, for myself.

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Everything that affects me, I am told of in advance. And I feel evil. And, whenever I plan to do something that I should not do, I am told not to.

bèlla said:

Your addendum raises other questions. You mention the devil trying to command or lure you in dreams. Why haven’t you been informed what that entails and how to guard against it? The whole thing is strange.

~bella

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God did appear a few months earlier and told me to keep my promise to Him. And afterwards, the devil showed up. So, it's obviously related. Also, the fact that in my dreams I did recognize him is another thing.

rambot said:

And the government's main contention is that gang members have identified him thusly.

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There were several important points of contention; but the foundational underlying point of contention was that he was here illegally.

That was settled.

jonojim1337 said:

I thought we agreed this was at the time of Jesus, the prince of princes?

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Please site the post where I agreed with you, and I'll try to figure out what I said and what I meant?

Carl Emerson said:

Because Jesus did.

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Yes, Jesus did call attention to the signs and wonders in sending a message to John the Baptist, in order to confirm who Jesus is.

But something certain early church magnifiers do not mention is the part where Jesus says the poor have the Gospel preached to them, and blessed is the one not offended in Jesus.

And I offer, again, how Jesus said that to a person in doubt.

And elsewhere Jesus does say no sign will be given to certain people, except the sign of Jonah.

Also, we have how Abraham tells the rich man that the man's brothers would not believe even if one rose from the dead to talk with them.

So . . . yes, God might show signs and wonders; however, it is possible He knows they do not make the difference. And yet Jesus says if signs and wonders were shown in Sodom and Gomorrah . . . they would remain to His day.

So - I see how things work, however God has things work . . . with signs and without signs. He does not depend on either: with or without, I would say.

Carl Emerson said:

Do you really think the Love of Jesus was less expressed throughout the early church in the first 5 chapters of Acts ?

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My point is the early church was not a mature church, right away. And at that earlier time of the early church, yes, there were signs and wonders. But the people were not mature, yet. And so, I am offering that we should not try to build things now to be like how things were while the church was new . . . not mature. We have mature people, now, including men who meet the description of 1 Timothy 3:1-10 which gives the qualifications of "a bishop".

And Peter did that wonder, of having the lame man walk, while Peter still was not a maturely sound and stable person. After all, in Galatians 2:11-13 we read how later, to my knowledge, Peter played the hypocrite, as did Barnabas . . . not what mature people would do, I would say. And yet, it does seem Barnabas, by then, was pretty mature or something like that, yet still able to do that.

So, in any case, what is really needed is all God does ***within*** us. And signs and wonders did not do that, and did not keep Peter and "even Barnabas" from playing the hypocrite.

So, we might give our main attention to what we need for God Himself to do, within us. Because even after all Peter and Barnabas did and witnessed . . . still . . .

essentialsaltes said:

Stopping people for being brown...

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Stinton, who is from Lisburn, County Antrim, in Northern Ireland, told the Telegraph that he was “kidnapped” off a Florida street and held in inhuman conditions for around a month before before being deported back to the UK. Stinton told the paper that he had all the correct paperwork to be in the United States, legally paid his U.S. taxes, and that federal agents told him, “You look Mexican,” while arresting him.

bèlla said:

No, I don’t believe everyone in the early church displayed the love of Christ identically. Variance is a part of the human condition. Which means you’ll see some people excelling in areas where others don’t. And inequitable workloads wouldn’t be unheard of. None of which is inherently bad.

~bella

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Absolutely correct.

I didn't suggest that.

But it would be a stretch to suggest that churches today have anything like the impact on society that the new born church had when the Love of Jesus was so strongly evident among them.