Your Understanding of the Gospel

[Cliff2]

I am on other Forums as well as this one here.

We often have threads that come up about the Gospel.

Not interested in arguing but am interested as to your understanding of the Gospel.

Not long passages of Scripture, a verse or two, no problem.

Also not long passages of SOP, a short paragraph is fine, no problems with that.

Even better in your own words as to how you undstand the Gospel.

I will also put mine down.

 

[Cliff2]

The gospel is all about me accepting the free gift of Christ's righteousness that He freely gives to all who will accept it.

It is never about how good I am or about my performance as a Christian.

If it was about performance, Abraham would have been ruled out, David would be sitting on the side lines instead of being a major player, even Elijah buckled under the pressure.

Then we have Samson, well if I was making up the faith chapter in Hebrews he is one person I would have left out.

I am so glad he is included and because of his inclusion I can count myself in. Not on my performance but on the death of Christ on the cross.

 

[Cliff2]

The gospel is never about my performance.

It is about what Christ has done for me not what He does in me.

Christ justifies no one whom He does not sanctify.

You are getting mixed up with the pure and simple gospel and sanctification. They are separate, but never apart.

This is where Steps to Christ is such a good book, it makes it so simple.

We complicate things by adding to the gospel.

It was never meant to be like that. Paul in Eph. 2:8,9 makes it as simple as it can be made. John 3:16, Matt. 11:28,29.

A child can understand the true gospel until we start adding our thoughts to it.

 

[Cliff2]

"It was possible for Adam, before the fall, to form a righteous character by obedience to God's law. But he failed to do this, and because of his sin our natures are fallen and we cannot make ourselves righteous. Since we are sinful, unholy, we cannot perfectly obey the holy law. We have no righteousness of our own with which to meet the claims of the law of God. But Christ has made a way of escape for us. He lived on earth amid trials and temptations such as we have to meet. He lived a sinless life. He died for us, and now He offers to take our sins and give us His righteousness. If you give yourself to Him, and accept Him as your Saviour, then, sinful as your life may have been, for His sake you are accounted righteous. Christ's character stands in place of your character, and you are accepted before God just as if you had not sinned."
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Can we really imagine just how good that is. we are accepted before God just as if we had not sinned.

It tells us why that happens. It is because Christ's charater stand in the place of mine and God looks down upon us as though we are sinless.

Good news, in fact just plain fantastic.

 

[Sophia7]

The gospel is all about me accepting the free gift of Christ's righteousness that He freely gives to all who will accept it.

It is never about how good I am or about my performance as a Christian.

If it was about performance, Abraham would have been ruled out, David would be sitting on the side lines instead of being a major player, even Elijah buckled under the pressure.

Then we have Samson, well if I was making up the faith chapter in Hebrews he is one person I would have left out.

I am so glad he is included and because of his inclusion I can count myself in. Not on my performance but on the death of Christ on the cross.

 

[Cliff2]

Sophia7

So glad you agree

There are still many in the SDA Church that have a performance based mentality.

Then there are others who think that they can do anything and still be saved.

Neither are right. Salvation is a free gift, we cannot buy it or earn it.

One day I am hoping we get it right and tell the world that there is good news, eternal life for all who come to Christ, just as they are.

 

[Adventtruth]

Sophia7

So glad you agree

There are still many in the SDA Church that have a performance based mentality.

Then there are others who think that they can do anything and still be saved.

Neither are right. Salvation is a free gift, we cannot buy it or earn it.

One day I am hoping we get it right and tell the world that there is good news, eternal life for all who come to Christ, just as they are.

Cliff you are so right. If we all understood that God is the Gospel, the Adventist denomination would be a better church. But as it stands, its more a law based denomination. Last Sabbath in Sabbath school I told the teacher that Christ did it all. I was told no...we must do the work if we want salvation. This is the kind of thinking that permiates many. Thanks brother for thnking about the true gospel of God.


-AT

 

[OntheDL]

The gospel is all about me accepting the free gift of Christ's righteousness that He freely gives to all who will accept it.

It is never about how good I am or about my performance as a Christian.

If it was about performance, Abraham would have been ruled out, David would be sitting on the side lines instead of being a major player, even Elijah buckled under the pressure.

Then we have Samson, well if I was making up the faith chapter in Hebrews he is one person I would have left out.

I am so glad he is included and because of his inclusion I can count myself in. Not on my performance but on the death of Christ on the cross.

The full gospel is this...

Christ died on the cross to remove the seperation placed in between man and God as a result of sin.

Jesus was fully human (and fully divine) and was attempted on all points yet committed on sin. When tempted, He did not reply on His own divinity, but replied on the power of the Word ('For it is written..) to overcome the power of darkness, thus leaving us an example.

The believers when empowered by the holy spirit can have complete victory over sin by following His example and thus forever declare that God is just and is love.

It's not our performance, but what we allow Him to do in us thus accomplish a complete transformation of character. We all shall be judged by our work which is the reflection of our character.

Anything short is not the full gospel. The cross is not the end but the begining of christian walk.

 

[Adventtruth]

Cliff you are so right. If we all understood that God is the Gospel, the Adventist denomination would be a better church. But as it stands, its more a law based denomination. Last Sabbath in Sabbath school I told the teacher that Christ did it all. I was told no...we must do the work if we want salvation. This is the kind of thinking that permiates many. Thanks brother for thnking about the true gospel of God.


-AT

In undersanding that God is the Gospel we understand all of God's gifts (forgivness, justification, eternal life) are loving and can lead us to God himself. That is what Gods love is. His commitment to do everything neccesary, even the death of His Son, to enthrall mankind with what is deeply satisfying...Himself.

Thats the gospel.

 

[Cliff2]

Cliff you are so right. If we all understood that God is the Gospel, the Adventist denomination would be a better church. But as it stands, its more a law based denomination. Last Sabbath in Sabbath school I told the teacher that Christ did it all. I was told no...we must do the work if we want salvation. This is the kind of thinking that permiates many. Thanks brother for thnking about the true gospel of God.


-AT

I am so sorry to hear that we have people who still think that they can have eternal life because of what they can do (performance).

It never has been and never will be.

 

[Jimlarmore]

I am so sorry to hear that we have people who still think that they can have eternal life because of what they can do (performance).

It never has been and never will be.

I think one of the major problems we have in the adventists faith is the way we hold to the letter of the law. Especially in Sabbath observance. There is probably no denomination in Christiandom that is as strict on Sabbath observance as the SDA's. The ironic part of this is that you can just about find as many ways to keep the Sabbath as there are Sabbath keepers. It's so easy when you focus on the law to start thinking that you are righteous for keeping the law. It's not that we shouldn't worry about breaking the law, that is not what I am saying. I just don't think it should occupy the status in our lives many of SDA's give it.

What we really need to be worried about is keeping Christ foremost in our life. If we've confessed our sins and repented of them and live in His power then keeping the commandments will be the fruit of a saved life. As usual things get really cross ways in human affairs. We live between two extremes in philosophy concerning salvation. There are many who would say we can sin with impunity and once we are saved we really don't have to confess or repent again. They beleive that Christ covers us with His blood and His grace covers all future sins even if we don't confess and repent of them. After all we can't keep from sinning anyway, right? This is dangerous because what this does is to say that the Grace of Christ puts us right back in sin after justification. Jude 3-4 speaks of this.

Then you have the other side where we see many legalistic adventists who think they can perform their way to salvation by keeping God's law. The truth is somewhere in the middle I think. We are not under the law but it can't be done away with or we couldn't even define sin according to 1 John 3:4. I believe our main focus should be on the only Being who can save us and that's Jesus Christ. We are to enjoy the grace He extends to us and live within His righteousness. It should pain us when we know we have broken God's laws and we should confess and repent ( clean house ). However, we need to realize that no amount of law keeping will ever save us and to honest it never could not even in the old covenant times. Righteousness has always been by faith and God's grace.

God bless
Jim Larmore

 

[Adventtruth]

I think one of the major problems we have in the adventists faith is the way we hold to the letter of the law. Especially in Sabbath observance. There is probably no denomination in Christiandom that is as strict on Sabbath observance as the SDA's. The ironic part of this is that you can just about find as many ways to keep the Sabbath as there are Sabbath keepers. It's so easy when you focus on the law to start thinking that you are righteous for keeping the law. It's not that we shouldn't worry about breaking the law, that is not what I am saying. I just don't think it should occupy the status in our lives many of SDA's give it.

What we really need to be worried about is keeping Christ foremost in our life. If we've confessed our sins and repented of them and live in His power then keeping the commandments will be the fruit of a saved life. As usual things get really cross ways in human affairs. We live between two extremes in philosophy concerning salvation. There are many who would say we can sin with impunity and once we are saved we really don't have to confess or repent again. They beleive that Christ covers us with His blood and His grace covers all future sins even if we don't confess and repent of them. After all we can't keep from sinning anyway, right? This is dangerous because what this does is to say that the Grace of Christ puts us right back in sin after justification. Jude 3-4 speaks of this.

Then you have the other side where we see many legalistic adventists who think they can perform their way to salvation by keeping God's law. The truth is somewhere in the middle I think. We are not under the law but it can't be done away with or we couldn't even define sin according to 1 John 3:4. I believe our main focus should be on the only Being who can save us and that's Jesus Christ. We are to enjoy the grace He extends to us and live within His righteousness. It should pain us when we know we have broken God's laws and we should confess and repent ( clean house ). However, we need to realize that no amount of law keeping will ever save us and to honest it never could not even in the old covenant times. Righteousness has always been by faith and God's grace.

God bless
Jim Larmore

HI Jim.

I agree with you in your posting. We put way to much into how to keep the sabbath rather than the Lord of the Sabbath. We have preachers saying that on the way to heaven we all will stop and have a Sabbath observance before we get there that sunday keepers may keep a Sabbath before we get to heaven. They get this from the SOP Early Writings.

As you know Jim, I believe the ministration of law on stone was abolished with all the Mosaic Law/Old Covanant. I believe we now live under a better covanant/New Covanant where our Lord has written His laws in our Minds and heart. I believe the manifestation of the Spirit in the life of the believer is what enables believers to obey God...have a desire to obey from within,not as under the letter. We are not under law because we are sinful people and the sin in us decieves all of us into what is wrong, and besides the law kills every one of us becasue no performance is good enough becasue we are still sinful with in. Even our good works under the enfluence of the Spirit are not good enough. Sin manipulates the law and by it decieves me (Rom 7)

But the law is Holy and it is spiritual as the Pauline message teaches us. So the law is obsolete...most of it that is , only in its ministration is it obsolete. But the law still offers us its morality. We are to seek its morality of goodness. So we are not to serve in the letter but in the Spirit. The new manifestation is of the spirit. So as Jesus and Paul plainly stated we are to love God supremely and our brother as our self, and once we begin to serve God by doing this we infact are fulfilling the law. Its sorta like a back door to law keeping...none of us have the ability to walk up to the law and say, I am going to keep you and obey you letter for letter. That will never work becasue we are inwardly sinful people. Besides that would be a righteousness from the law we seek, and Jesus said our righteousness must pass the righteousnsess of the Pharisees...they sought and taught law keeping.

So the two new commands Jesus gives us under the New Testiment is love to God and our brother. In this way we fulfill the whole of the law, not just the ten but the whole of the law. How...because His righteousness is imputed to me that I may stand before a holy God. Jesus was the only person to walk up to it and say I will keep and obey all you demand...So we enter into the front door of it through Jesus.

But understand that we being dead to sin and law is not a license to sin. Paul says may it never be! Why, becasue dead men don't sin... How can we who are dead to it, live in it...If they are truly raised with Christ. I don't mean we are sinless. Only that I am now found in Christ by faith alone. So does that mean I don't confess my sin??? No thats not what I am talking about. We confess our sin nature every day along with our acts of sin...sin is still sin and must be atoned for always... we must confess, but in this we are already dead and buried with Him and raised to a new life through our union with Christ through faith, confession, forgiveness, reconciliation and adoption into the family of God. Jesus is a new creation for us therefore He is the Lord of the Sabbath and has freed us from all the restrictions that where associated with it. Free from the bondage of the Law is never a license to sin...infact if we are using it as a license, then we are back up under the law and found to be transgressers of it.

Blessings

-AT

 

[Jimlarmore]

Adventtruth,
I agree with about 99% of what you say. I know you probably didn't see it or read it but there were some on the other forum who felt that they didn't need to confess or repent once they were saved. Going to the extreme in the wrong direction I think. I praise God we are no longer under the law, but it cannot be voided or done away with because without it grace wouldn't even be necessary. That concept was never accepted over there and I'm not sure you accept it but it's a solid truth that is irrefuteable.

God Bless you

Jim Larmore

 

[OntheDL]

Yes, there is nothing we could do to earn our salvation. But that does not equal to therefore there is nothing required of us in the salvation process.

If Jesus did it all for me, implying I don't have to do anything, then God is unjust. Because why couldn't He do it all for majority that perish?

The salvation is a process. It's at judgment, Day of Atonement in type, the final atonement is made. The salvation process is ended when the believer is judged righteous and then redeemed. Atonement means restoration of the original condition.

The cross is not the end but the begining of the christian walk. We are justified at the cross after the total surrender of our will. And we need to continue to be justified.

Every step of the way during the salvation process, it requires the believer's willing cooperation and dependence on God.

Yes, there is nothing we can do to earn our salvation. But it requires our very honest effort.

 

[Adventtruth]

Yes, there is nothing we could do to earn our salvation. But that does not equal to therefore there is nothing required of us in the salvation process.

All we need to do is trust Jesus. Trust is from faith to faith. If we are trying to do things for merit it wont work.

If Jesus did it all for me, implying I don't have to do anything, then God is unjust. Because why couldn't He do it all for majority that perish?

Your salvation has been completed "past tense" Jesus lived and died and rose again on your behalf. There is nothing more He has to do for you...He will keep you in perfect peace through your trusting in Him.

2 Tim 1:

"Who hath (past tense) saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, 10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel: 11 Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles. 12 For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day. 13 Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. 14 That good thing which was committed unto thee keep by the Holy Ghost which dwelleth in us."

The salvation is a process. It's at judgment, Day of Atonement in type, the final atonement is made. The salvation process is ended when the believer is judged righteous and then redeemed. Atonement means restoration of the original condition.

God has saved from hell now all that trust by faith alone. Grace is keeping us through faith alone. and He will totally deliver us in that day. We need not feel as if we are not presently saved.

"1 John 5:

And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. 13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

The cross is not the end but the begining of the christian walk. We are justified at the cross after the total surrender of our will. And we need to continue to be justified.

Show me this total surrender from scripture for salvation. If this is so, then you your self has not totally surrendered. You still have things you struggle with don't you? Are you then made perfect in your self?

Every step of the way during the salvation process, it requires the believer's willing cooperation and dependence on God.

Once again you need to validate this cooperation form the Holy Spirit. The Spirit leads us into holiness, and shows us how to live, but lets not make it about us...its about Jesus and His promises to us.

Yes, there is nothing we can do to earn our salvation. But it requires our very honest effort.

This is nothing but a mere play on words. One side of your reasoning says there is nothing we can do to earn salvation, then the other side of your reasoning says it(salvation) requires our very honest effort. Implying that we must work to get salvation in the end. This is Roman catholicism at best. If you work for your salvation then you must do the whole law. And then its still not good enough because God will reject a righteousness that does not come through faith.


Gal 3:11

"But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. 12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them "


If you want to work for righteousness then go ahead...it wont help.


-AT

 

[OntheDL]

All we need to do is trust Jesus. Trust is from faith to faith. If we are trying to do things for merit it wont work.

No. without work your faith is in vain.

Your salvation has been completed "past tense" Jesus lived and died and rose again on your behalf. There is nothing more He has to do for you...He will keep you in perfect peace through your trusting in Him.

If that's the case then God is unjust. Why couldn't He do it all for those that perish???

2 Tim 1:

"Who hath (past tense) saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, 10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel: 11 Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles. 12 For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day. 13 Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. 14 That good thing which was committed unto thee keep by the Holy Ghost which dwelleth in us."

He that overcomes and endureth to the end, the same is be saved (Future tense).

You don't know if you are saved now. Not even your angel knows. Only the Lamb is worthy to open the 7th seal: to open the Book to Life.

God has saved from hell now all that trust by faith alone. Grace is keeping us through faith alone. and He will totally deliver us in that day. We need not feel as if we are not presently saved.

"1 John 5:
And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. 13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

The Devil believes and trumples. Is he saved?
We are justified by works, not by faith alone.

Show me this total surrender from scripture for salvation. If this is so, then you your self has not totally surrendered. You still have things you struggle with don't you? Are you then made perfect in your self?

'I die daily. 1 Cor 15:31.' That's the daily total surrender. We need to be justified every day. Didn't Jesus say 'let him take up his cross every day' in Luke 9:23?

Make total surrender doesn't mean you won't have struggles. The struggles will continue until your walk is completed when your character transformation is finished. Learn obedience like He did learn.

Once again you need to validate this cooperation form the Holy Spirit. The Spirit leads us into holiness, and shows us how to live, but lets not make it about us...its about Jesus and His promises to us.

Never meant to to be about us. But if you never tried to become total blameless you will never realize how much you need Jesus.

This is nothing but a mere play on words. One side of your reasoning says there is nothing we can do to earn salvation, then the other side of your reasoning says it(salvation) requires our very honest effort. Implying that we must work to get salvation in the end. This is Roman catholicism at best. If you work for your salvation then you must do the whole law. And then its still not good enough because God will reject a righteousness that does not come through faith.

Gal 3:11
"But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. 12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them "

If you want to work for righteousness then go ahead...it wont help.

-AT

Not playing with words. The two are not mutually exclusive. Noting you can do to earn your salvation does not mean your salvation requires you to do nothing. If that's the case, why did God let the wicked perish if they didn't have to do anything?

Paul was talking about (in the book of Galatians) work based salvation: Sinai Covenant which depended on man's promise to keep the law. A covenant is a contract between two parties. God will bless man if he/she meets the demands of the law. The old covenant failed because it depended on man's promise. The new covenant succeeds because it depends on God's promise to empower us to keep the law. That's the function of grace.

Roman Catholism at its best? Please! We should know the Devil always give two alternatives: one is in extreme of the other. Salvation by work or salvation by faith alone. Neither is biblical. In either case, you will need to reconscile with plenty of other passages that say otherwise.

 

[Adventtruth]

No. without work your faith is in vain.

There you go again...you focus on self. All you think about is self! Its not about you. You seem to think it is because you focus on self. Its about Jesus and His promise to you under the new covenat.

Heb 10:9,10
"Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. 10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all"


Heb 10:16-17
"This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; 17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more."

Jesus took away the old covenant and has sanctified you through His offering of His own body. As long as you trust Him in everyday life of being a christian you are saved. Don't worry about your works or failures, you are under grace not law. He has promised to not remember your sin any more. No body is saying live like the world...live as a believer that has Christ in your life, and that He will bring you through. Treasure Jesus and not your deeds.

If that's the case then God is unjust. Why couldn't He do it all for those that perish???

If you understand salvation then you understand we can not save our selves right? Then Jesus musta did it all...your salvation paid in full!!! Those who are lost are lost because they chose to reject His salvation which was wroght out By Christ upon the cross.

Heb 10:11-14
" By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. 14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

This passage shows that believers are sancftified through the body of Christ and now He is done! All things are completed for you. Just Trust Him as you continue your Christian walk in holiness. Your holiness is not what is saving you. Its Jesus who has already saved you and your walk as a christian proves it.

He that overcomes and endureth to the end, the same is be saved (Future tense).

You don't know if you are saved now. Not even your angel knows. Only the Lamb is worthy to open the 7th seal: to open the Book to Life.

Now ontheDL...you did not even give any though tothe passage in 1 John 5. What you are doing is trying to make scripture fit your theology. LEts look closely at what Jesus said in context. What did He mean?

1 John 5:12-13 " He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. 13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

"but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved" (Mark 13:13)

"For yet in a very little while,

He who is coming will come, and will not delay.
38 But My righteous one shall live by faith;
And if he shrinks back, My soul has no pleasure in him.
39 But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul." (Heb 10:37-39)​

" ‘Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to cast some of you into prison, so that you will be tested, and you will have tribulation for ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life." (Rev 2:10)

" 10 Then He continued by saying to them, “Nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom,

11 and there will be great earthquakes, and in various places plagues and famines; and there will be terrors and great signs from heaven.

12 “But before all these things, they will lay their hands on you and will persecute you, delivering you to the synagogues and prisons, bringing you before kings and governors for My name’s sake.
13 “It will lead to an opportunity for your testimony.
14 “So make up your minds not to prepare beforehand to defend yourselves;
15 for I will give you utterance and wisdom which none of your opponents will be able to resist or refute.
16 “But you will be betrayed even by parents and brothers and relatives and friends, and they will put some of you to death,
17 and you will be hated by all because of My name.
18 “Yet not a hair of your head will perish.
19 “By your endurance you will gain your lives." (Luke 21:10-19)​

So why did I show you these passages??? To show you that the bible makes it very clear that a man as long as he is trusting in Jesus, he has eternal life now...Eternal Life is in Jesus and If we have Jesus, we have eternal life now.

1 John 5:11 "And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son."


​

We are justified by works, not by faith alone.

This seems like an EGW argument. You make the bible contradict its self. We are never justified by works...never. Your argument is a bad argument becasue you don't understand what James chapter 2 is saying. If your argument is true, then we have a contradiction.

Rom 3:28
"Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law."


Rom 4:1-5
"What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? 2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. 3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."

What James is saying is that the works prove that a man has genuine faith. Faith is proven real by the works. If I am a believer in christ, my love for you as a believer would prove it. Genuine Faith is never dead because its an active faith.

" Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? 23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God."

faith was working with his actions which proved he was trusting God. But it was not the works that justified him..it was grace through his genuine faith in God.

"Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. 25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? 26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."​

This is where a many people get side tract. James says "by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." He was justified or accounted a righteous man by a living faith not a dead faith. Dead faith never justifies. Genuine faith always brings forth fruit to prove that it lives, thus we have a living faith.​

I die daily. 1 Cor 15:31.' That's the daily total surrender. We need to be justified every day. Didn't Jesus say 'let him take up his cross every day' in Luke 9:23?

Total surrender does not mean you are cooperating with the Holy Spirit FOR SALVATION! You are already saved...your compliance with the Spirit is the fruit of your salvation.

Make total surrender doesn't mean you won't have struggles. The struggles will continue until your walk is completed when your character transformation is finished. Learn obedience like He did learn.

Jesus was completely surrenderd to God. We are not and that includes you ontheDL. IF you have struggles, you have not completely surrender...if so youwould have no struggles.

Never meant to to be about us. But if you never tried to become total blameless you will never realize how much you need Jesus.

So you focus on your falleness to realize how much you need Jesus!!! Then it is about you. You are one unhappy person...miserable person! You need to treasure Jesus and not fucus on your falleness.

Matt 11: 28-30 "Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Not playing with words. The two are not mutually exclusive. Noting you can do to earn your salvation does not mean your salvation requires you to do nothing. If that's the case, why did God let the wicked perish if they didn't have to do anything?

No one ever said you will have a dead faith. But if you are working to keep it then you are practicing and believeing a wrong gospel. Resting in Jesus means resting in Gods work of salvation for you, and Jesus work of recreating you (Heb Chapter 3,4) People die spiritually becasue they lack genuine saving faith period. those who trust the doing and dying of Jesus have eternal life whichis in Jesus.

If we die because of our sinfulness and sinful acts then we are saved becasue of our good deeds. It then becomes all based on merit. Its not based on merit with God, but based on the two Adams...The first Adam, and the second Adam.

People die spiritually becasue they are left necked because of what the first Adam did. If we trust in God and continue trusting by faith alone, then our necked sin nature is covered by the blood of Christ and His righteousness (all He did as a man and His dying to sin) is credited to us. If not then we are left with our neckedness and we perish. This is simple truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ...He came to free us from sin.

Paul was talking about (in the book of Galatians) work based salvation: Sinai Covenant which depended on man's promise to keep the law. A covenant is a contract between two parties. God will bless man if he/she meets the demands of the law. The old covenant failed because it depended on man's promise. The new covenant succeeds because it depends on God's promise to empower us to keep the law. That's the function of grace.

Lets take a look at this

"I will putc my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: 11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. 13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away. "

1) God has promised the law inwardly. This means we will have a desire to do what is right and lawful from within.​

this does not mean that I come to the ten commandments and say I am going to keep you because​

A) you still have a sin nature and can never meet the demains of the law (Rom 3)​

B) You are not under law (Gal)​

c) The law is not for the rightous in God (2 Tim)​

D) You are dead to law (Rom 6-7)​

E) The Law was under the old covenant (Deut)​

F) If you practice the law you must do it all (Gal)​

G) Jesus has given you two new commands to love​

God supreme and brother as self. (Matt)

H) love fulfills the whole law including the ten (Gal)

2)God has promised to forgive you all of your unrighteousness...thats a done deal for the christian but we must confess it still.

3)God will also be merciful to us.

4) God has taken away the old covenant with the ministration on stone and gave us a new covenat with two new commandments to love God and one another.

5) And not listed above but is found in Ez. is the promise of the Holy Spirit within the believer.

This is all based upon the new covenant that is based upon promises that God would do for us...all we have to do is trust.





-AT

 

[reddogs]

Yes, the gospel is what Christ has given us, but it is to understand the bigger picture and that is God's truth which is universal. Many throw away what is from God because they are so busy fighting over theological disagreements, seek first the kingdom of God then everything else will come to you. Stop fighting over saved by whatever ..pretentious theological intellectualism... as the train only comes once and if you are too busy fighting you may miss it...........

 

[Adventtruth]

Yes, the gospel is what Christ has given us, but it is to understand the bigger picture and that is God's truth which is universal. Many throw away what is from God because they are so busy fighting over theological disagreements, seek first the kingdom of God then everything else will come to you. Stop fighting over saved by whatever ..pretentious theological intellectualism... as the train only comes once and if you are too busy fighting you may miss it...........

And what is the kingdome of God?

-AT

 

[reddogs]

If you are trapped in the law then you have not found truth, seek an understanding of God and his love not mans interpretation of it and all the other things will be made clear.