Young Earth Creation evangilism.

jlmagee

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I'm mostly a YEC, so I'll take a shot at this.

In my evangelism experiences, questions regarding creation come up on a regular basis. They're more common from people with an axe to grind rather than seekers. But seekers bring it up, too.

In my area, I talk to many that have left the church. Some state their objections and some are receptive.

I'm willing to engage regarding subjects I'm comfortable talking about (abiogenesis, biology, the cosmos), and refer them to places like creation.com regarding subjects I'm not (geology, paleontology, radiometric decay).

I think it's darn near impossible to be well-read on all the facets of creation evangelism unless one devotes many hours to it, as the people at creation and aig do.

And that's not me. So I pick my battles, referring people to others when I'm not up to the job.

Is this a fair assessment of your approach? You will tell them that you are YEC. If they have objections, you answer some or attempt to tell them where they can get further information. Then, try to make sure the foccus stays on Jesus.
Am I close to your approach? If so, I agree with that. I have no problem with the YEC postition. God as Creator is essential to the gospel, however, Jesus crucifixion, resurrection, and ascension are the focal point of Christianity and of our ministry.

Grace and Peace
Jerry
 
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Calminian

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....Over the last 10 years or so, perhaps because of the new anti-theism/New Atheist movement, I have noticed non-believers and former believers immediately try to challenge the Gospel with scientific evidence, the Flood, etc. ....

Hi jlmagee. You know, looking at this it's actually a very smart tactic to go after this issue for skeptics and non-believers. It's also a very smart move by Satan himself. You mentioned your reaction was that it's a non-issue for you. I absolutely believe you are sincere in your commitment to the gospel. This is what makes it so effective. It's subtle rather than outwardly hostile. Rather than a overt assault on the gospel it's a covert assault on the foundations of the gospel, and one that many christians don't recognize.

Every theological doctrine has its roots in Genesis. The first human son of God (Adam) (Luke 3:38) was created without a sin nature, in a "very good" and blessed environment. He was the first Adam (or first man as adam is the word for man in Genesis). And yet he fell. Jesus is called the last Adam. He was the only begotten Son of God meaning he was not procreated by a descendent of Adam, but begotten nevertheless through child birth.

So you have the first Adam, and the last Adam (Jesus).

1Cor. 15:45 And so it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.​

Can't shake people's faith in the last Adam? Go after the foundation. Go after the first Adam. Undermine peoples faith in the accounts of Genesis. Convince unbelievers they are fables and fairy tales. Convince believers they are metaphors.

I have to be honest, there is brilliance to the plan as diabolical as it is. I'm studying the nativity story with my family at this time, and just went over with the genealogies that link Jesus to Adam. Why do you suppose the Holy Spirit did that? The two are inseparable theological components of the story of redemption. One brought sin and death into the world. One conquered sin and death for the world.

Rom. 5:12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned— ................15 But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man’s offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many.

Rom. 5:17 For if by the one man’s offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.)

Rom. 5:18 Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life.​

Will it work?? Will it pull everyone away from the gospel? Of course not. Satan would never hope for that kind of success. But it does do damage, to both the gospel, and to the influence of the church in societies. There are quote "men of God" like Bishop Spong who not only believe the book of Genesis to be a metaphor, but the resurrection as well. If anything he is consistent. Many follow and look up to him for spiritual guidance. So I would say from a tactical stand point, this is a very smart attack for the enemy of the gospel.

And I say all that in response to your experience of the recent escalating attacks on Genesis. For I see them too. Sometimes they are frantic and downright irrational, and not just the attacks that come from skeptics. Many believers seemingly frantically are going after Genesis trying to discredit a straightforward reading of it. In fact some of the most vicious assaults come from christians. I'm not referring to you, of course, in any way. You're very gracious.

But I hope some of what I wrote above gives you food for thought as you ponder this issue.
 
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ChetSinger

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In my area, I talk to many that have left the church. Some state their objections and some are receptive.

Is this a fair assessment of your approach? You will tell them that you are YEC. If they have objections, you answer some or attempt to tell them where they can get further information. Then, try to make sure the foccus stays on Jesus.
Am I close to your approach? If so, I agree with that. I have no problem with the YEC postition. God as Creator is essential to the gospel, however, Jesus crucifixion, resurrection, and ascension are the focal point of Christianity and of our ministry.

Grace and Peace
Jerry
Yes, I'd agree with that description. I'm not involved in "creation evangelism", but I am excited to talk about biology and genetics because I believe they point to God. But an acceptance of creation isn't the goal, an acceptance of the work of Christ is.

I would say that regarding apologetics, evolution is perhaps the most common stumbling block I see people trip over. After all, what room is there for God if we evolved without him? The number two stumbling block might be alternative histories, such as the Jesus Myth, Zeigeist, Dan Brown, and the whole "Christianity was a conspiracy" story that our society is currently being fed.

I think apologetic arguments, while often necessary, usually run up against resistance from the heart. Someone will latch onto an idea like Zeitgeist and not want to let it go. In the end, I think arguments must be accompanied by love to be effective.
 
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Calminian

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...I think apologetic arguments, while often necessary, usually run up against resistance from the heart. Someone will latch onto an idea like Zeitgeist and not want to let it go. In the end, I think arguments must be accompanied by love to be effective.

Just wanted to say, you're right on the money, Chet. No question. Apologetics can be used by God, but this is no simple intellectual issue. It's spiritual to the core.
 
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Chandell85

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Calminian said:
Just wanted to say, you're right on the money, Chet. No question. Apologetics can be used by God, but this is no simple intellectual issue. It's spiritual to the core.

Bravo guys!!! :) I agree!

My grandpa was a preacher/pastor for several years and he always used to say,"If you're looking for a reason to leave the church, you'll find it. But if you're looking for a reason to stay, you'll find that too."
 
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Smidlee

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Since I'm not a professional... I'm going to be nice. :)

There are several logical errors in this article. It contradicts itself in several areas. I agree, for the most part, with what it's trying to say, but the author shows a lack of knowledge in the area that makes YEC apologists seem unlearned and unable to use proper science.

The comment about the states becoming states has absolutely nothing to do with the deposition of a Carboniferous layer in that area and further contradicts the authors point about layers being named by geographical area. The author then went on to misquote a passage and cause the reader to think it was about something else.

Please please please!!! I beg you!! If you're going to debate and support YEC do your research from both perspectives!! Not just from a conservative website. Continue to be the beacon but be wise and study.

Thank you for sharing your article.
I don't know if he's a YEC but he is an engineer so you are right it's not his field. He does try to put a little humor in his post. He did mention there were exceptions. (I don't think he's point is the earth is young but these layers doesn't necessary involved time.)
As far as see from both sides there are some interesting debate years ago between Pitman and Glenn Morton. Pitman doesn't deny he is no expert in geology yet he did bring up some interesting points. Glenn lately has remove his site as he felt it was used to attack theism.
 
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Chandell85

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Smidlee said:
I don't know if he's a YEC but he is an engineer so you are right it's not his field. He does try to put a little humor in his post. He did mention there were exceptions. (I don't think he's point is the earth is young but these layers doesn't necessary involved time.)
As far as see from both sides there are some interesting debate years ago between Pitman and Glenn Morton. Pitman doesn't deny he is no expert in geology yet he did bring up some interesting points. Glenn lately has remove his site as he felt it was used to attack theism.

Aw that's too bad! :-/ He did make some really good points. I wish I could've helped him back them up and maybe provide a little bit of background information.
 
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jlmagee

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Hi jlmagee. You know, looking at this it's actually a very smart tactic to go after this issue for skeptics and non-believers. It's also a very smart move by Satan himself. You mentioned your reaction was that it's a non-issue for you. I absolutely believe you are sincere in your commitment to the gospel. This is what makes it so effective. It's subtle rather than outwardly hostile. Rather than a overt assault on the gospel it's a covert assault on the foundations of the gospel, and one that many christians don't recognize.

Every theological doctrine has its roots in Genesis. The first human son of God (Adam) (Luke 3:38) was created without a sin nature, in a "very good" and blessed environment. He was the first Adam (or first man as adam is the word for man in Genesis). And yet he fell. Jesus is called the last Adam. He was the only begotten Son of God meaning he was not procreated by a descendent of Adam, but begotten nevertheless through child birth.

So you have the first Adam, and the last Adam (Jesus).


1Cor. 15:45 And so it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

Can't shake people's faith in the last Adam? Go after the foundation. Go after the first Adam. Undermine peoples faith in the accounts of Genesis. Convince unbelievers they are fables and fairy tales. Convince believers they are metaphors.

I have to be honest, there is brilliance to the plan as diabolical as it is. I'm studying the nativity story with my family at this time, and just went over with the genealogies that link Jesus to Adam. Why do you suppose the Holy Spirit did that? The two are inseparable theological components of the story of redemption. One brought sin and death into the world. One conquered sin and death for the world.


Rom. 5:12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned— ................15 But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man’s offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many.

Rom. 5:17 For if by the one man’s offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.)

Rom. 5:18 Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life.
Will it work?? Will it pull everyone away from the gospel? Of course not. Satan would never hope for that kind of success. But it does do damage, to both the gospel, and to the influence of the church in societies. There are quote "men of God" like Bishop Spong who not only believe the book of Genesis to be a metaphor, but the resurrection as well. If anything he is consistent. Many follow and look up to him for spiritual guidance. So I would say from a tactical stand point, this is a very smart attack for the enemy of the gospel.

And I say all that in response to your experience of the recent escalating attacks on Genesis. For I see them too. Sometimes they are frantic and downright irrational, and not just the attacks that come from skeptics. Many believers seemingly frantically are going after Genesis trying to discredit a straightforward reading of it. In fact some of the most vicious assaults come from christians. I'm not referring to you, of course, in any way. You're very gracious.

But I hope some of what I wrote above gives you food for thought as you ponder this issue.

Calminian, I will get back to you Thursday. Christmas, basketball, schedule is tight for a couple of days.
 
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jlmagee

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So, if I may, let's revisit your OP.

I agree with the scientific dating of the Earth and universe. I accept evolution as a mechanism that God used AND HIS INVOLVEMENT THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE PROCESS. I do not completely rule out some sort of progressive creation at various points of time. Now to my point.

If, this is your understanding and belief about the creation, then, why are you now trying to 'prove' that the Septuagint and the ECF's seem to be pretty much in agreement that our current scientific dating of the earth and the universe is completely off the chart.

Am I missing something here?

However, as to your question about it coming into play in one's preaching the truth of the gospel, there are times that it must, but that all depends on how deep one must go in proving who Jesus is.

When you get into the questions of, "Well, how do I know that Jesus is this Messiah that came to pay my penalty for sin?" One has to lay out some of the old covenant prophecies that explain this. Then the response is often, "Well, yea but I know that all that stuff was written after the fact." Then one is reduced to showing the careful writing and copying of the old covenant scriptures and how important it was to the Jews that every copy be exactly the same. Finally, the question might arise, "So, what makes anything that a bunch of folks called Jews wrote about?" At this point one has to go further into history and recount God's call to Abram and how the nation of Israel got it's beginning and the purpose of God's calling Abram and this usually all leads back to sin and how it got started and why we need salvation anyway.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

Ted,

I will address your post on Thursday. Schedule is tight for the next couple of days.

Grace and Peace
Jerry
 
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SkyWriting

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I affirm the Nicene Creed....

My question is, given the importance placed on the YEC position, how does the conversation playout for you? Do you stress the literal translation of Genesis?

I don't like the Creeds than men create because they think they can explain things better than the scriptures. Then they ask others to repeat what men have written over and over and over.....what?

Never mind the Nicene sinners. Read the Bible for yourself.

The bible is literally God's Word to men.
Plain and simple reading is best and that usually
is a literal reading. Some poetry is to be found
so pure literalness is not the way to go.
 
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