you'll hate this thread, I guarantee it.

[LittleLambofJesus]

i think its pretty awesome that God laid out a clear path for us rather than leaving us to wander on our own!

if formulaic worship is a hindrance to us reaching God then why did God have the Jews worship liturgically, and why didnt the Apostles realize it was so bad?

Greeting js! What passages in the NC/NT are you referring to? Just curious.

 

[Theophorus]

Theo the name of this newspaper didn't cause pause?

No, the buttons tipped me off.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

No, the buttons tipped me off.

I reached that stage about 3 years ago......

 

[jckstraw72]

Greeting js! What passages in the NC/NT are you referring to? Just curious.

in Acts it tells us that the Apostles continued worshiping in the Temple and in Synagogues, so they must have not realized that liturgical worship is so detrimental to a relationship with God. Also, see Hebrews 8 where St. Paul talks about Jewish worship as based on heavenly worship.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

in Acts it tells us that the Apostles continued worshiping in the Temple and in Synagogues, so they must have not realized that liturgical worship is so detrimental to a relationship with God. Also, see Hebrews 8 where St. Paul talks about Jewish worship as based on heavenly worship.

So how did they celebrate outside of the temple/synagouges?

Revelation 3:9 Behold, I am giving out of the synagogue/sun-agwghV <4864> of the Adversary, to the ones saying selves Judeans to-be and not they are, but they are falsifying.
Behold, I shall be making them that they should be arriving/hxwsin <2240> (5661), and they shall be worshipping before the feet of You, and they may be knowing that I Love You.

Reve 20:8 and will go forth out/exeleusetai <1831> (5695) to deceive the nations that are in the four corners of-the land, the Gog/gwg <1136> and the Magog/magwg <3098>, to-be-together-assembling/sun-agagein them into a-battle.................

 

[WarriorAngel]

in Acts it tells us that the Apostles continued worshiping in the Temple and in Synagogues, so they must have not realized that liturgical worship is so detrimental to a relationship with God. Also, see Hebrews 8 where St. Paul talks about Jewish worship as based on heavenly worship.

I am going to cautiously suggest that they didnt worship in the Temple or synagogues, but went there to preach to the Jews.

How does one explain this phenomenon...
Well, since they knew they were supposed to go to the Jews first, they did...and knowing that the liturgy was the same way the Church would continue, they figured the synagogues would be easily converted to the Eucharistic Liturgy.

Sometimes they found opposition, sometimes not. [Usually opposition came from the leaders]
All in all, when the Jews 'kicked them out' completely [they didnt believe Jesus was the Lamb] then they created a similar atmosphere in the Churches.

Looking at ancient Churches that held icons, much like the synagogues and Temple... and the altar [as was the same in the Temple/synagogue] and the tabernachle [as in the synagogue] its easy to see how the ONLY difference is Christ.
And the worship remained the same. The foreshadow of the Liturgy is of course, the synagogue.

What I dont understand is how some simply do NOT see the OT as a mirror image of the NT only transformed spiritually thru Christ. [ie] It was basically the foreshadow...the OT was symbolic or prophetic to the future which was to BE His Church....and is just as much a part OF Him, as a bride is of their bridegroom.

 

[jckstraw72]

So how did they celebrate outside of the temple/synagouges?

Acts 2:42and they were continuing stedfastly in the teaching of the apostles, and the fellowship, and the breaking of the bread, and the prayers.

and i think somewhere else it says they went to the Temple daily. meeting for the breaking of bread is teh Eucharist, which they certainly didnt do in the Temple or Synagogues, but they took what they knew from each to form the earliest Christian liturgies -- from the Temple comes the rite of sacrifices (Eucharist) and from the Synagogues comes the rite of Scripture study -- these two elements are still the foundation of Christian liturgies today.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

So how did they celebrate outside of the temple/synagouges?

Revelation 3:9 Behold, I am giving out of the synagogue/sun-agwghV <4864> of the Adversary, to the ones saying selves Judeans to-be and not they are, but they are falsifying.
Behold, I shall be making them that they should be arriving/hxwsin <2240> (5661), and they shall be worshipping before the feet of You, and they may be knowing that I Love You.

The same way they did inside.

Search for the roman soldier records of what was taken from Christians when they were arrested.

Forgive me...

 

[HisKid1973]

I am just curious as to when the Orthodox have there ministry times regarding ministry gift operations and the laying on of hands for the sick/prayer times during the service..thanks..Kim

 

[jckstraw72]

Acts 2:46And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

I am going to cautiously suggest that they didnt worship in the Temple or synagogues, but went there to preach to the Jews.

Incorrect.

For a time, they did.

Forgive me...

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

I am just curious as to when the Orthodox have there ministry times regarding ministry gift operations and the laying on of hands for the sick/prayer times during the service..thanks..Kim

Set times in the calendar and as needed. One of the services is called "Unction".

Forgive me...

 

[jckstraw72]

I am just curious as to when the Orthodox have there ministry times regarding ministry gift operations and the laying on of hands for the sick/prayer times during the service..thanks..Kim

not sure what you mean by ministry gift operations, but all our services consist entirely of prayer and hymns, with a homily on Sundays and some others times. we have anointings for the sick every Holy Wednesday as well as any other time there is a need for it.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Looking at ancient Churches that held icons, much like the synagogues and Temple... and the altar [as was the same in the Temple/synagogue] and the tabernachle [as in the synagogue] its easy to see how the ONLY difference is Christ.

Perhaps that was a lot of Jewish Christian's responses to no longer having Jewish synagoges and a Temple to worship/preach in.

Luke 21:5 And certain saying about the temple/ierou <2411> that to stones goodly and devoted-things/anaqhmasin <334> it hath been adorned/ke-kosmhtai <2885>, he said,

Matt 24:2 The yet Jesus saying to them, "Not you see all these? Amen I am saying to ye, not no be being left here stone upon stone, which not shall be being demolished."

Reve 21:2 And the city, the holy, Jerusalem, New, I perceived descending out of the heaven from the God, having been made ready as bride having been adorned/worlded/ke-kosmhmenhn <2885> (5772) to the man of her.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

I am going to cautiously suggest that they didnt worship in the Temple or synagogues, but went there to preach to the Jews.

How does one explain this phenomenon...
Well, since they knew they were supposed to go to the Jews first, they did...and knowing that the liturgy was the same way the Church would continue, they figured the synagogues would be easily converted to the Eucharistic Liturgy.

Sometimes they found opposition, sometimes not. [Usually opposition came from the leaders]
All in all, when the Jews 'kicked them out' completely [they didnt believe Jesus was the Lamb] then they created a similar atmosphere in the Churches.

Looking at ancient Churches that held icons, much like the synagogues and Temple... and the altar [as was the same in the Temple/synagogue] and the tabernachle [as in the synagogue] its easy to see how the ONLY difference is Christ.
And the worship remained the same. The foreshadow of the Liturgy is of course, the synagogue.

What I dont understand is how some simply do NOT see the OT as a mirror image of the NT only transformed spiritually thru Christ. [ie] It was basically the foreshadow...the OT was symbolic or prophetic to the future which was to BE His Church....and is just as much a part OF Him, as a bride is of their bridegroom.

Homes... (most were the former homes of rich Roman citizens) not Churches. These became Churches. And as time passed they built Churches too.

Forgive me...

 

[jckstraw72]

Perhaps that was a lot of Jewish Christian's responses to no longer having Jewish synagoges and a Temple to worship/preach in.

and seeing as how everyone is all abotu being the NT Church, shouldnt we then follow what these earliest Christians did?

 

[sunlover1]

And David danced before the LORD with all his might; ​

and David was girded with a linen ephod. ​

So David and all the house of Israel ​

brought up the ark of the LORD with shouting, ​

and with the sound of the trumpet. ​

And as the ark of the LORD came into the city of David, ​

Michal Saul’s daughter looked through a window, ​

and saw king David leaping and dancing before the LORD; ​

and she despised him in her heart.​

Then David returned to bless his household. ​

And Michal the daughter of Saul came out to meet David, ​

and said, How glorious was the king of Israel to day, ​

who uncovered himself to day in the eyes of the handmaids of his ​

servants, as one of the vain fellows shamelessly&#65279;f&#65279; uncovereth himself! ​

And David said unto Michal, It was before the LORD, ​

which chose me before thy father, and before all his house, ​

to appoint me ruler over the people of the LORD, over Israel: ​

therefore will I play before the LORD. ​

And I will yet be more vile than thus, ​

and will be base in mine own sight: ​

and of the maidservants which thou hast spoken of,​

of them shall I be had in honour&#65279;g&#65279;. ​

Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul ​

had no child unto the day of her death. ​

 

[jckstraw72]

that has nothing to do with the corporate worship that God ordained on Mt. Sinai. and furthermore, its quite a leap to go from David dancing to assuming rock and roll Evangelical services without any continuity with the God-ordained worship of Judaism are correct.

 

[sunlover1]

and if I were where the temple was, I'd likely worship there too.

But now you ARE the temple.
Hmm.

 

[katherine2001]

not sure what you mean by ministry gift operations, but all our services consist entirely of prayer and hymns, with a homily on Sundays and some others times. we have anointings for the sick every Holy Wednesday as well as any other time there is a need for it.

If a priest knows someone is sick or is going to have surgery or something, he will add a moleben service on to another service (Divine Liturgy or vespers) and do a lot of the prayers for illness and annoint the person. The prayers put the person and their illness in God's hands and ask that His will be done (whether it is to heal the person or not--the Orthodox don't believe it is always God's will to physically heal a person). He also usually prays for the health care professionals who are treating the person as well.