You Can't See The Forest For The Trees

[rightlydividingtheword]

Why does Paul say?
Galations 2:7
But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;

How can these gospels(good news) be the same?
Why the different titles?

 

[s0journ3r]

Why does Paul say?
Galations 2:7
But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;

How can these gospels(good news) be the same?
Why the different titles?

Looking at a different translation will help.

Gal. 2:7 :: On the contrary, they saw that I had been entrusted with the task of preaching the gospel to the Gentiles, just as Peter had been to the Jews.
​

Same gospel. Different recipients.

Yours truly in Christ,
sojourner

 

[jeffweeder]

7 But on the contrary, seeing that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been to the circumcised
http://www.christianforums.com/8 (for He who effectually worked for Peter in his apostleship to the circumcised effectually worked for me also to the Gentiles), [ROM 1: http://www.christianforums.com/16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. ]

http://www.christianforums.com/9 and recognizing the grace that had been given to me, James and Cephas and John, who were reputed to be pillars, gave to me and Barnabas the right hand[8][Lit hands ] of fellowship, so that we might go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised.
http://www.christianforums.com/10 They only asked us to remember the poor—the very thing I also was eager to do.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Why does Paul say?
Galations 2:7
But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;

How can these gospels(good news) be the same?
Why the different titles?

Why do you use an article that isn't there, in the passage, to try to prove two different 'gospels"? -there are not two in the passage.

And also, why do you not read on, and rightly divide the Scriptures that are there?
http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/c/1161815128-1478.html#7
verse 7 On the contrary they saw how evangelizing [the] uncircumcised had been entrusted to me -kathos
1) according as
a) just as, even as
b) in proportion as, in the degree that
2) since, seeing that, agreeably to the fact that
circumcised [to] Peter.
for energeo 'operating' in Peter towards [among] [his] sending away to [the] circumcision the same
operated also in me towards [among] Gentiles
http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/c/1161817291-2273.html#8 ...etc. it is "one" and the
same "one" "Gospel" =evangel, in the passage energizing Peter and Paul, who each have a ministry of being "sent away" [Apostles].


It is total false doctrine to make more of that passage than that is said plainly.

 

[LamorakDesGalis]

Why does Paul say?
Galations 2:7
But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;

How can these gospels(good news) be the same?
Why the different titles?

In the Greek text of Galatians 2:7, there is only one occurrence of "the gospel" - and its singular. Plus if one looks at the KJV text, one can see the italics where the word(s) are absent in the Greek. See:

KJV Galatians 2:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;

Here are some other versions:

CJB Galatians 2:7 On the contrary, they saw that I had been entrusted with the Good News for the Uncircumcised, just as Kefa had been for the Circumcised;

CSB Galatians 2:7 On the contrary, they saw that I had been entrusted with the gospel for the uncircumcised, just as Peter was for the circumcised.

NAU Galatians 2:7 But on the contrary, seeing that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been to the circumcised

NET Galatians 2:7 On the contrary, when they saw that I was entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised just as Peter was to the circumcised

NIV Galatians 2:7 On the contrary, they saw that I had been entrusted with the task of preaching the gospel to the Gentiles, just as Peter had been to the Jews.

NLT Galatians 2:7 Instead, they saw that God had given me the responsibility of preaching the gospel to the Gentiles, just as he had given Peter the responsibility of preaching to the Jews.


LDG

 

[s0journ3r]

In the Greek text of Galatians 2:7, there is only one occurrence of "the gospel" - and its singular. Plus if one looks at the KJV text, one can see the italics where the word(s) are absent in the Greek. See:

KJV Galatians 2:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;

Here are some other versions:

CJB Galatians 2:7 On the contrary, they saw that I had been entrusted with the Good News for the Uncircumcised, just as Kefa had been for the Circumcised;

CSB Galatians 2:7 On the contrary, they saw that I had been entrusted with the gospel for the uncircumcised, just as Peter was for the circumcised.

NAU Galatians 2:7 But on the contrary, seeing that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been to the circumcised

NET Galatians 2:7 On the contrary, when they saw that I was entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised just as Peter was to the circumcised

NIV Galatians 2:7 On the contrary, they saw that I had been entrusted with the task of preaching the gospel to the Gentiles, just as Peter had been to the Jews.

NLT Galatians 2:7 Instead, they saw that God had given me the responsibility of preaching the gospel to the Gentiles, just as he had given Peter the responsibility of preaching to the Jews.


LDG

Thanks for pointing this out, LamorakDesGalis. Very interesting.

Yours truly in Christ,
sojourner

 

[eph3Nine]

1. Circumcision/Peter/Jews

2. UNcircumcision/Paul/Body of Christ


Hmmm...I may be dummer than a sack of rocks in the mathmatical arena, but one plus one DOES equal TWO.

 

[s0journ3r]

1. Circumcision/Peter/Jews

2. UNcircumcision/Paul/Body of Christ


Hmmm...I may be dummer than a sack of rocks in the mathmatical arena, but one plus one DOES equal TWO.

Two what, eph3Nine? The text doesn't mention two gospels- does it? Jews & Gentiles are not gospels, ma'am. They're people. And the same gospel was preached to each one. Peter to the Jews. Paul to the Gentiles.

Yours truly in Christ,
sojourner

 

[eph3Nine]

Two what, eph3Nine? The text doesn't mention two gospels- does it? Jews & Gentiles are not gospels, ma'am. They're people. And the same gospel was preached to each one. Peter to the Jews. Paul to the Gentiles.

Yours truly in Christ,
sojourner

It surely does. Can you not read, young man?

The "gospel" of the Circumcision
The "gospel" of the UNCircumcision

ONE was the LAW...one was totally GRACE
ONE was spoken since the world began...One was HIDDEN
One was PROPHECY ...ONE was MYSTERY
One had to do with the earth....One had to do with heaven
One was taught by Christ in His earthly ministry...One was taught by Christ RISEN

If you continue to disregard these blatant differences as shown you from the scriptures, you have marked yourself as an enemy of the Cross by "minding earthly things", instead of being about your Fathers business of being an ambassador representing HIS interests and not your own.

 

[LamorakDesGalis]

It surely does. Can you not read, young man?

Condenscending statements such as this do nothing to support your position. Neglecting the main points which Sojourner pointed out makes it even worse.

The "gospel" of the Circumcision
The "gospel" of the UNCircumcision

As has been pointed out, the Greek verse has only one word for "the gospel" and its singular and has the article. So you can't get "two gospels" out of the Greek of Galatians 2:7.

ONE was the LAW...one was totally GRACE
ONE was spoken since the world began...One was HIDDEN
One was PROPHECY ...ONE was MYSTERY
One had to do with the earth....One had to do with heaven
One was taught by Christ in His earthly ministry...One was taught by Christ RISEN

None of this comes from Galatians 2:7. Its all from preconceived ideas rather than coming from the text of Galatians 2:7.

If you continue to disregard these blatant differences as shown you from the scriptures, you have marked yourself as an enemy of the Cross by "minding earthly things", instead of being about your Fathers business of being an ambassador representing HIS interests and not your own.

So in other words, you condemn all Christians who are not Mid-Acts Dispensationalists as "enemies of the Cross."


LDG

 

[eph3Nine]

LDG[/quote]
Thank you for your input, LDG. Let me answer each one separately, if I may.

1.

Condenscending statements such as this do nothing to support your position. Neglecting the main points which Sojourner pointed out makes it even worse.

This is not a condescending comment but one I would have spoken kindly to his face.
You cannot hear my voice and thus you cant make that assertion.

Adequate proofs have been provided and yet he still continues to tell me that there is only one gospel in scripture.

This is mere stubborness and a blatant REFUSAL to accept the scriptures rightly divided as the criteria for judging a matter true or false. THAT was my point. And he SHOULD do more listening instead of talking as he is presenting the WRONG gospel, one that has a curse attached to it BY GOD HIMSELF.

My comment was to HELP HIM, not to be condescending. Please, refrain from judging MY intent and motives. Thank you

2.

As has been pointed out, the Greek verse has only one word for "the gospel" and its singular and has the article. So you can't get "two gospels" out of the Greek of Galatians 2:7.

Greek schmeeek....it lists TWO DIFFERENT names and calls them BOTH "gospels". This means, in fifth grade english taught to all in school, that one is NOT the same as the OTHER. What is wrong with you people that you cannot tell one from the other????? Is law the same as GRACE? Is Judaism the same as Christianity? Does God care if we carelessly and mindlessly mix them UP?????

3.

None of this comes from Galatians 2:7. Its all from preconceived ideas rather than coming from the text of Galatians 2:7.

And your point is.......????? The comparisons DO however come FROM scripture and relate TO the separate programs AND their DIFFERENCES! Must you try and make a simple thing OBTUSE, instead of just taking it at face value?
The issue still IS:
ONE gospel (the Circumcision) was the LAW.while the gospel to be compared with it (the gospel of the UNcircumcision ) was totally GRACE

ONE was spoken since the world began...One was HIDDEN

One was PROPHECY ...ONE was MYSTERY

One had to do with the earth....One had to do with heaven

One was taught by Christ in His earthly ministry...One was taught by Christ RISEN

Just because this may seem NEW to you, doesnt mean that scripture doesnt TEACH IT!


Now to your final "trick" question:

So in other words, you condemn all Christians who are not Mid-Acts Dispensationalists as "enemies of the Cross."

Romans 16:17,18 ( May I remind you that this is PAUL writing and he is speaking of the gospel revealed to him by the RISEN Christ, and NOT the gospel taught by Peter and the twelve.)

'"Now, I beseech you , brethren, MARK THEM THAT CAUSE DIVISIONS and offenses which are CONTRARY TO THE DOCTRINE which you have learned (FROM PAUL)...and avoid them."

"For they that are such (the ones who are CONTRARY TO THE DOCTRINE learned from Paul) serve NOT our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly, and by good words (spiritual "sounding") and fair speeches (copious churchy sounding epistles) DECEIVE THE HEARTS of the simple (unlearned.)"

Phil. 3: 17, 18

"Brethren, be followers together of me (Paul speaking here, and his words ARE the commandments of the Lord to us today), and MARK THEM which walk so (walk how...as Paul says to walk), as ye have us for an example/pattern.

For many walk (this is saved people being spoken of here, NOT LOST folks, so I am not condemning ANYONE but simply reiterating what SCRIPTURE teaches to be TRUE) of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that THEY are the enemies of the Cross of Christ: whose end is destruction (this word doesnt imply a loss of salvation but an end result of their lives not being what was purposed, or a WASTE in the greek) whose God is their belly, and whose glory is their shame, WHO MIND EARTHLY THINGS."


Paul is writing to members of the Church of this present dispensation...SAVED people who are walking CONTRARY to the doctrines of the CROSS of Christ.

He is NOT referring to "them that are WITHOUT" Col. 4:5

To the LOST he says: "...for the preaching of the Cross is foolishness to them that are LOST; but unto us which are SAVED it (the gospel or preaching of the CROSS) is the power of God (1 Cor. 1:18)

So how can a SAVED SAINT be an enemy of the Cross of Christ?

They serve not the Lord Jesus Christ , but their own belly.

They are Christian leaders who "by good words and fair speeches DECEIVE the hearts of the simple"

They have a HEAVENLY calling , hope and citizenship but they "MIND EARTHLY THINGS"

What is meant by "earthly things?"

Israels EARTHLY hope, calling and return to the EARTH. Also , earthly citizenship as well as personal materialism.

We are CALLED to take notice or IDENTIFY (mark them) two kinds of people:

1. Those who walk according to Pauls doctrine (Phil. 1:17, 1 Cor 4:15, 17, and 1 Cor 11:1)

2. Those who walk CONTRARY to Pauls doctrine (Romans 16:17)



I would ask the question of ALL who post here:

Which one are YOU? Walking according to, or CONTRARY to Pauls doctrine?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

So how can a SAVED SAINT be an enemy of the Cross of Christ?

By following Peter's Gospel of the Law

2 thess 2:14 For you, brethren, became imitators of the churches of God which are in Judea in Christ Jesus. For you also suffered the same things from your own countrymen, just as they [did] from the Judeans, 15 who killed both the Lord Jesus and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they do not please God and are contrary to all men,

Revelation 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven saying, "Come out of Her [Peter's gospel/Law], My People [Paul's gospel/Grace], lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her Stripes/Whipping.

Luke 21:27 `And then they shall see the Son of Man, coming in a cloud, with power and much glory; 28 and these things beginning to happen bend yourselves back, and lift up Your heads, because Your Redemption/ apolutrwsiV <629> doth draw nigh.'

 

[eph3Nine]

Yes...by following Peters gospel of the law! YOU got it!

As to your other references, Luke and Revelation are both PROPHETIC books having to do with Israel and you wont find mystery doctrine even alluded to there.

 

[clayharryman]

I'm reminded of why I left CF nine months ago.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

I'm reminded of why I left CF nine months ago.

but maybe some poor soul who saw the LOUD GREEN SHOUTS and were almost deceived by those shouts trying to overpower the still small voice of YHWH to their soul, will see the refutations of those who know the truth, and be quieted with the peaceable wisdom which is from above -and go on to strengthen others in the faith.

Jam 3:17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, [and] easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.

 

[eph3Nine]

The Lord Jesus Christ isnt speaking in little voices in our heads, contrary to popular belief...but through His Word rightly divided.

THE faith referred to in Gods Word for today is the gospel of the GRACE of God as given to OUR apostle Paul.

He who has an ear, let him hear.

and to all others..."if someone chooses to be ignorant, let him BE ignorant."

 

[s0journ3r]

It surely does. Can you not read, young man?

Yes, ma'am. I can read. It would be pretty hard to respond to your posts if I couldn't read. But, thanks for taking the time to consider my intellectual stability. I appreciate it.

The "gospel" of the Circumcision
The "gospel" of the UNCircumcision

The gospel. Singular. Not "the gospels," which would be plural. One common gospel, two distinct recipients.

ONE was the LAW...one was totally GRACE
ONE was spoken since the world began...One was HIDDEN
One was PROPHECY ...ONE was MYSTERY
One had to do with the earth....One had to do with heaven
One was taught by Christ in His earthly ministry...One was taught by Christ RISEN

Once again, you assume that the mystery remained hidden until it was revealed to Paul; however, the Scripture's do not say this. To say that God revealed a thing to Paul is not to say that he revealed it first or exclusively to Paul. You also assume that the revelation of the grace of God & salvation through Christ's atonement came to Paul exclusively. But, that's not true either. Peter states that the prophets...

"prophesied about the grace that was to be yours" (1 Peter 1:10)
​

...and that they...

"predicted the sufferings of Christ." (1 Peter 1:11)
​

This is grace on the basis of Christ's sufferings (or the shedding of his blood). The prophets, according to Peter, foretold it! And Peter and others (before Paul) preached this redemption on the basis of...

"the precious blood of Christ, like that of a lamb without blemish or spot." (1 Peter 1:19)
​

Peter says that what the prophets had prophesied about was now being more fully made known. It had been referred to by the prophets, but it had not been made known as it was now being made known. Paul said the same thing in Ephesians 3:5.

Paul said in Ephesians 3:8,

"To me, though I am the very least of all the saints, this grace was given, to preach to the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ,"
​

...but it is assumed by M.A.D.'s that this grace was given to Paul exclusively; but the verse does not say this. What had been committed to the Twelve was now given to Paul that he might bring it to the Gentiles.

Paul preached the same gospel that the Twelve preached. In Galatians 1:23 Paul says that after his conversion he preached...

"the faith he once tried to destroy."
​

He had previously tried to destroy the gospel preached by the Twelve. For this preaching he was sent to prison, but in Ephesians 6:20 he says that for the "mystery" gospel he was...

"an ambassador in chains."
​

Paul had always taught the same gospel set forth in Ephesians, and this was the gospel that he once opposed (the gospel of the Twelve).

If you continue to disregard these blatant differences as shown you from the scriptures, you have marked yourself as an enemy of the Cross by "minding earthly things", instead of being about your Fathers business of being an ambassador representing HIS interests and not your own.

Well, I'm sorry that you think just because someone doesn't adopt a M.A.D. interpretation of the Scripture's that they're an "enemy" of the cross. But, I'm going to stick with what the Bible "really" says.

Yours truly in Christ,
sojourner

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by clayharryman
I'm reminded of why I left CF nine months ago.

He had previously tried to destroy the gospel preached by the Twelve. For this preaching he was sent to prison, but in Ephesians 6:20 he says that for the "mystery" gospel he was...

"an ambassador in chains."
​

Paul had always taught the same gospel set forth in Ephesians, and this was the gospel that he once opposed (the gospel of the Twelve).

Of course you are correct and the Jews should be happy about Paul.

Revelation 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven saying, "Come out of Her [Peter's gospel/Law], My People [Paul's gospel/Grace], lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her Stripes/Whipping.

 

[rightlydividingtheword]

Of course you are correct and the Jews should be happy about Paul.

Romans 11:6
And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
Pauls gospel no work involved. Peters gospel work involved

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Romans 11:6
And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
Pauls gospel no work involved. Peters gospel work involved

That work being the WHOLE LAW of Moses for the Jews.

One Gospel bring death, the other Gospel brings LIFE. Choose life for Heaven's sake, all of us!!!!

Deuteronomy 30:15 `See, I have set before thee [Israel] to-day Life and good, and Death and evil,

Revelation 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven saying, "Come out of Her [Peter's gospel/Law], My People [Paul's gospel/Grace], lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her Stripes/Whipping.