YES, the Bible DOES Preach THE PRE-TRIB RAPTURE!!

[christianfilmcrew]

might I remind everyone that Jesus didn't escape tribulation.

 

[Big Mouth Nana]

the word rapture is not in the Bible, it is a word that was made up to describe the 'catching up in the air' and that is in the Bible... <<<g>>>

Yes, but taken in a different time . Dad Ernie and I are post tribbers.

 

[Big Mouth Nana]

Many churches do not even preach using his real name (Yeshua) and give a false name to G-d (Jehovah)

Luke 2:21~ And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child, his name was CALLED JESUS, which was so named of the angel before he was conceived in the womb.
Now most Christians aren't Jewish, so we know Him by Jesus, and He will always be called Jesus to the majority of us....unless He wants to be called Yeshua when we all get to heaven. I was saved through the blood of Jesus, and that worked just fine. People like to nit pick to much.

 

[FreeinChrist]

might I remind everyone that Jesus didn't escape tribulation.

And no pretribbers say that we escape tribulation in this life. I know several missionaries who have had their life threatened, been shot at, had all possessions taken ...killed.

What we do expect is to be spared the wrath of God.

 

[Big Mouth Nana]

What we do expect is to be spared the wrath of God.

You will definately be spared that

 

[holdon]

You will definately be spared that

Rev 3:10 I also will keep thee out of the hour of trial, which is about to come upon the whole habitable world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

 

[Big Mouth Nana]

Rev 3:10 I also will keep thee out of the hour of trial, which is about to come upon the whole habitable world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Oh, are you a member of the church at Philadelpia . You don't believe that God can keep you from that trial by only rapturing you?

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Rev 3:10 I also will keep thee out of the hour of trial, which is about to come upon the whole habitable world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Hello holdon,
Yep! -and He isn't going to keep them from it somewhere on earth, either -cause then He'd be contradicting Himself in the same passage: they will not dwell on earth when the whole earth's inhabitants are tried by the 'hour of trial'!



The open door was set before the Church at Philidelphia, and through that door they would get to enter -at His return to gather His dead and living Saints to Himself, at the 'door', where all who are called to gather at the true Door of Assembly by the two trumpets sounding twice, as Numbers 10:1-7 teaches about, get the call to come, and to enter -and to shut the their door (s) behind them, as Isaiah 26:19-21 declares.

It is evident that the Philidelphian Believers -and all Believers who are of that same Spirit- will not be anywhere on earth when the great 'hour of trial' comes, as the hour of trial is to try all the inhabitants of the entire, complete, whole, round world.
Phildelphia was not to inhabit the earth during that time -and a few souls in Sardis were worthy to escape, so said the LORD.

Rev 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

It is interesting that just a few souls in Sardis were worthy to walk with him in white and to stand before Him -in the day of the 'harpazo'- and not the whole Church in Sardis, and He did warn the whole Church to repent lest He come upon them as a thief in the night; they'll be left, when He comes, He is saying, except for those few souls.

Rev 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.

The gate, or door, through which all 'harpazo' (=rapture =laqach), Believers enter, is into that heavenly temple where we remain while He allows the final man of sin to be revealed on earth, after our departure, and pours out His wrath upon the kingdom of the beast.

Rev 3:8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.
Rev 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.




Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Rev 4:1After this I looked, and, behold, a door [was] opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard [was] as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.


It is also interesting that John said he was in spirit, 'in' the Day of the LORD -and described it after the door was seen open and He heard the 'Come up here' call; and said the Day he saw was a thousand years -and described it from the beginning to the end as He was 'in it', in spirit'.


Isaiah 26:19 Your dead shall live;
Together with *my dead body they shall arise.
Awake and sing, you who dwell in dust;
For your dew is like the dew of herbs,
And the earth shall cast out the dead.

Take Refuge from the Coming Judgment
20 Come, my people, enter your chambers,
And shut your doors behind you;
Hide yourself, as it were, for a little moment,
Until the indignation is past.
*21 For behold, the Lord comes out of His place
To punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity;*

[Rev 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, *I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world,* to try them that dwell upon the earth.]

 

[Critias]

What we do expect is to be spared the wrath of God.

This actually an interesting statement you made. Do you honestly expect that God spares you from His wrath?

Would not God be justified to let His wrath pour out on you? Are we not all sinful and deserving of His judgment? Is it not by His Grace that we are saved even though we do deserve His wrath?

I would be careful of making such a statement of expecting God to spare you what you and all of us deserve. It is only by Grace that we are saved, not by what we expect or deserve.

 

[Big Mouth Nana]

It is also interesting that John said he was in spirit, 'in' the Day of the LORD -and described it after the door was seen open and He heard the 'Come up here' call; and said the Day he saw was a thousand years -and described it from the beginning to the end as He was 'in it', in spirit'.

Uh, no, that is not what John said. He said, I was in the Spirit on "The Lord's Day". That is totally different from the "Day of the Lord". Nice try though The Lord's Day is only mentioned one time in the whole bible, and that is only what John said. Try looking up the Day of the Lord in your concordance, and see what that has to say about it. It isn't pretty, except for the fact that the second coming happens at the same time, and we do not go through the Day of the Lord.
1st Thess 5:2 ~ For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a THIEF IN THE NIGHT.
2nd Peter 3:10 ~ But the day of the Lord will come as a THIEF IN THE NIGHT; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
Amazing that pre-trib's quote this thief in the night verse, but don't know what it entails.

The open door was set before the Church at Philidelphia, and through that door they would get to enter -at His return to gather His dead and living Saints to Himself, at the 'door', where all who are called to gather at the true Door of Assembly by the two trumpets sounding twice, as Numbers 10:1-7 teaches about, get the call to come, and to enter -and to shut the their door (s) behind them, as Isaiah 26:19-21 declares.

He is the door....John 10:7 ~ Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I AM THE DOOR of the sheep. These doors in Numbers 10:1-7 and Isaiah 26:19-21 are man made doors like in your house.

 

[Big Mouth Nana]

This actually an interesting statement you made. Do you honestly expect that God spares you from His wrath?

Would not God be justified to let His wrath pour out on you? Are we not all sinful and deserving of His judgment? Is it not by His Grace that we are saved even though we do deserve His wrath?

I would be careful of making such a statement of expecting God to spare you what you and all of us deserve. It is only by Grace that we are saved, not by what we expect or deserve.

Hi Critias. Actually God does spare us from His wrath...1st Thess 1:10 ~ And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.
1st Thess 5:9-10 ~ For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
I don't think that FreeinChrist meant that we don't deserve it, but that we do escape it. .

 

[Critias]

Hi Critias. Actually God does spare us from His wrath...1st Thess 1:10 ~ And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.
1st Thess 5:9-10 ~ For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
I don't think that FreeinChrist meant that we don't deserve it, but that we do escape it. .

Yes, I know God will spare His children from His wrath, but that will be by His grace, not by our expectations of Him.

The way it was written by FreeinChrist says she expects to not receive God's wrath. I don't think she intented what the sentence actually says.

We deserve God's wrath and it would be arrogant of any of us to state that we expect otherwise as if we don't deserve it.

It was the way the sentence is written, not what I believe she meant. Such a sentence can give a non-believer or an immature Christian who reads it, the wrong impression.

 

[christianfilmcrew]

The post that said pre-tribbers expect to be spared from His wrath, actually sounds like your more of a pre-wrath rapture believer...

One problem I have, and it's a major one, with pre-trib is that the Bible never, I repeat never makes mention of a 3rd coming of Christ. To believe pre-trib is to believe in

1-Christs first visit to earth 2000 years ago
2-Christs return for the 'rapture'
3-Christs coming back to reign

I'm sorry but the math doesn't add up for a pre-trib. The question is are you pre-trib or pre-wrath, because they are two totally different events.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

The post that said pre-tribbers expect to be spared from His wrath, actually sounds like your more of a pre-wrath rapture believer...

One problem I have, and it's a major one, with pre-trib is that the Bible never, I repeat never makes mention of a 3rd coming of Christ. To believe pre-trib is to believe in

1-Christs first visit to earth 2000 years ago
2-Christs return for the 'rapture'
3-Christs coming back to reign

I'm sorry but the math doesn't add up for a pre-trib. The question is are you pre-trib or pre-wrath, because they are two totally different events.

When the LORD comes in the air, at that time that He brings the 'dead in Christ' with Him, when the trumpets sound twice and the dead in Christ and the living saints receive their regenerated forms of thier human being bodies,, He begins at that time the last thousand year period of time for this present creation. His coming at that time is as a thief in the night and is not, repeat, 'is not' when He plants His feet on the Mount of Olives and defends Jerusalem, destroying the armies of the beast:
When He returns to this earth to set up His kingdom and reign on His throne of glory from the Millennial reign temple as Ezekiel described it -all His enemies will be completely destroyed and removed from this earth, after the seven year great tribulation when the kingdom of the beast is judged- then, and only then, at the end of that time of judgment, does He plant His feet on the land, and the coming is 'one' and is not two, for first He removes His congregation, as Psalm 75:2 tells us, and by that gathering to Himself His own (whom He calls to enter their 'rooms' which He went to the cross to prepare 'them', as a 'dwelling place' for the Father; John 14:1-3), and to shut their 'doors' about them, as Isaiah 26:19-21 tells us, and then the final 'one hour', which is only the first seven years of the 'last day' of the thousand years allowed for this present creation, allows the final confrontation to begin with the revealing of the man of sin after the people who are His people, His congregation, are removed by the 'laqach' -as Enoch was; then, that return to the earth, by planting His feet upon the ground is the completion of the second coming; which is when the kingdom of God comes to this earth and His will is done on earth as it is in heaven, which we are to pray for.

The period of time of the seven years, which is the time of 'Jacob's trouble' and the time of the judging of the kingdom of the beast and the putting to an end the 'mystery of iniquity' on earth that began in the Garden, at the fall, when the wicked one got control of the kingdom that was prepared for the first Adam and the sons of Adam, is called only 'one hour' by the LORD, as the beast is allowed to rise in all his power and is judged by the great judgments that proceed from the throne of the LORD in heaven -where His people are taken to be with Him, out of harms' way, for that entire 'hour', which is also called seven years, and one week, in Scripture.

It is one coming, and the entire seven year period is called the 'Revelation of Jesus Christ', by John, as He received the revelation to show us of the time of the 'Day of the LORD', when He is revealed to the entire world as 'the only potentate, King of Kings and LORD of lords', when He judges the inhabitants of this world, puts an end to the 'generation' of the tares (all the wicked who are born of Adam who receive the lies of the devil and who become sons of wrath by believing and acting upon the lies of the devil, without repentence, who are alive on earth at His coming; and all the 'other' ones, who were born of unlawful unions, as it was in the days of Noah "and also after that...").

His coming begins as a thief in the night, suddenly, without warning or remedy, and His return to rule over His kingdom is seen by every eye in heaven and in earth and under the earth, seven years later, and His rule is for the thousand year reign of peace over this present creation, before He regenerates the heavens and the earth, as told of in Scripture.

Maranatha!

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Yes, I know God will spare His children from His wrath, but that will be by His grace, not by our expectations of Him.

The way it was written by FreeinChrist says she expects to not receive God's wrath. I don't think she intented what the sentence actually says.

We deserve God's wrath and it would be arrogant of any of us to state that we expect otherwise as if we don't deserve it.

It was the way the sentence is written, not what I believe she meant. Such a sentence can give a non-believer or an immature Christian who reads it, the wrong impression.

Critias,
When we -who are now born from above by the spirit of adoption- were children of wrath, by our own deeds, we were only fit to receive the wrath of God; but now we are children of God, and He does not pour wrath out upon His children, only upon the children of the devil, for the only begotten Son of God has tasted our shame, separation, and humiliation, upon the altar (His cross; Psalm 118:27), and is our final, acceptable and accepted atonement for the cleansing and the putting away our uncleanness of being for ever; His blood sprinkled upon His Mercy Seat body represented by the pure gold Mercy Seat, as YHWH, the Living Spirit, second Person, in human flesh, ended the uncleanness of our being and gave us the right to become the sons of God when we receive Him, and we are no longer sons of wrath.

Peter was told to 'rise and eat', three times as a sign of the cleansing of the being which the Son of God accomplished by His blood of sprinkling.
'Call no man unclean, unaccceptable, whom I have cleansed', the LORD told Peter, and one cannot call us 'deserving of wrath' who are cleansed by the blood of atonement, for that is against the commandment of the LORD, as spoken to Peter.

My favorite concordance says the word [size=-1]katharizo[/size] which is translated cleansed, in Acts 10:15, is;
"...b) in a moral sense 1) to free from defilement of sin and from faults 2) to purify from wickedness 3) to free from guilt of sin, to purify... 2) to pronounce clean in a levitical sense"

We are translated from the kingdom of darkness to the kingdom of Light, and we who are no longer children of the night wil be removed before the judgment falls and the wrath is poured out -and before the final man of sin can be revealed, says Paul, for the presence of the Chuch on this earth is the restrainer of the revealing of the final man of sin, and the time that the mystery of iniquity is ended on this earth.

 

[Tishri1]

And on what basis do you say that?

If you cannot recognize Yeshua (Jesus) as a Jew and a Jew who followed the appointed times which G-d (YHVH) established, then you will not recognize him when he does come. The appointed times will come and go with or without you, even though everyone is invited to partake in them.

Just like this year....Don't miss out on the richness in the final Fall Feast "Sukkot" Feast of Tabernacles when Jesus/Yeshua the King was born, and when He will set up his reign for 1000 Years

 

[Big Mouth Nana]

The post that said pre-tribbers expect to be spared from His wrath, actually sounds like your more of a pre-wrath rapture believer...

One problem I have, and it's a major one, with pre-trib is that the Bible never, I repeat never makes mention of a 3rd coming of Christ. To believe pre-trib is to believe in

1-Christs first visit to earth 2000 years ago
2-Christs return for the 'rapture'
3-Christs coming back to reign

I'm sorry but the math doesn't add up for a pre-trib. The question is are you pre-trib or pre-wrath, because they are two totally different events.

Hi christianfilmcrew. Do you have a timing on what you believe the senerio is, since you first filled your user profile out? In your profile you have..... Pretribulation, Midtribulation, Posttribulation. Are you covering all bases ? I personally would rather know what I am looking at, instead of it not being settled in my heart. I am totally against pre-trib, as I am with you, the math just doesn't add up. I was pre-trib for 35 years .

 

[yeshuasavedme]

‘Don’t be ignorant’, Peter says.

The thousand years is ‘counted’ as just one day and the day is one thousand years. There is no wiggle room in the original, the ‘Day of the LORD’ is one thousand years. It begins as a thief in the night and ends with the melting of the elements -one thousand years later, “that one day, of the LORD“.

‘that one day’ of a thousand years begins as a thief in the night and ends in the melting of the elements, a thousand years later -counted as one day, by the LORD.

2 Peter 3:7-10 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/popup.pl?book=2Pe&chapter=3&verse=8&version=kjv

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day [is] with the Lord as a thousand years, [and a] thousand years as one day. http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/popup.pl?book=2Pe&chapter=3&verse=8&version=kjv

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

2 Peter 3:15,16; And account [that] the longsuffering of our Lord [is] *salvation* [the LORD is wanting a certain number to be saved, to be added to His Church, before He returns to gather the harvest]; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

As also in all [his] epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as [they do] also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Peter says Paul speaks of these things, that is, the coming of the LORD, and Paul and Peter are in agreement.

In the Scriptures, the present creation has seven thousand years, each counted as a day, to the LORD, and the LORD came in flesh in the ‘last days’ -which was the fourth day, and is returning on the very last day to reign for that Day over all the earth, which is the Sabbath of thousands for this earth.

Jesus said He would raise up all who believed in Him on the ‘last day’, and that raising, called the ’first resurrection’ is at the beginning of the ‘last Day‘, when He comes as a thief, -and ‘one hour’ later’, when He returns in power to set up His reign of Peace, and those resurrected regenerated Believers reign with Him for the time of Peace, as kings and priests, from the heavenly realm, in regenerated glorified bodies, for the thousand years that John saw, which John saw in spirit, which he called the Day of the LORD.

 

[Critias]

Critias,
When we -who are now born from above by the spirit of adoption- were children of wrath, by our own deeds, we were only fit to receive the wrath of God; but now we are children of God, and He does not pour wrath out upon His children, only upon the children of the devil, for the only begotten Son of God has tasted our shame, separation, and humiliation, upon the altar (His cross; Psalm 118:27), and is our final, acceptable and accepted atonement for the cleansing and the putting away our uncleanness of being for ever; His blood sprinkled upon His Mercy Seat body represented by the pure gold Mercy Seat, as YHWH, the Living Spirit, second Person, in human flesh, ended the uncleanness of our being and gave us the right to become the sons of God when we receive Him, and we are no longer sons of wrath.

Peter was told to 'rise and eat', three times as a sign of the cleansing of the being which the Son of God accomplished by His blood of sprinkling.
'Call no man unclean, unaccceptable, whom I have cleansed', the LORD told Peter, and one cannot call us 'deserving of wrath' who are cleansed by the blood of atonement, for that is against the commandment of the LORD, as spoken to Peter.

My favorite concordance says the word [size=-1]katharizo[/size] which is translated cleansed, in Acts 10:15, is;
"...b) in a moral sense 1) to free from defilement of sin and from faults 2) to purify from wickedness 3) to free from guilt of sin, to purify... 2) to pronounce clean in a levitical sense"

We are translated from the kingdom of darkness to the kingdom of Light, and we who are no longer children of the night wil be removed before the judgment falls and the wrath is poured out -and before the final man of sin can be revealed, says Paul, for the presence of the Chuch on this earth is the restrainer of the revealing of the final man of sin, and the time that the mystery of iniquity is ended on this earth.

So, is it your belief that we don't deserve His wrath and judgement?

If so, you cancel out His Grace and place yourself as undeserving of such treatment, thus placing the emphasis on yourself instead of God.

This isn't about whether will or won't receive God's wrath, but about what we deserve.

 

[Critias]

Just like this year....Don't miss out on the richness in the final Fall Feast "Sukkot" Feast of Tabernacles when Jesus/Yeshua the King was born, and when He will set up his reign for 1000 Years

Thank you for your explanations on here about Rosh Hashannah, Yom Kippur and the Sukkot. I have started studying Jewish history, culture, ceremonies, rituals, ect to better understand the context in which the Bible is written.

The Bible is presented in the Jewish mindset because of the times in which it was written and the fact that Jews were the ones who penned it.

Sadly, many Christians are not interested in learning more about things Jewish. I am finding it to be quite helpful in better understanding the cultural language used therein.

I appreciate that many Messianic Jews on this forum are open to share their Jewish knowledge, like you have.

The things I have learned thus far, ancient Jewish wedding ceremonies, how the Passover was carried out(breaking of the bread to save for later, the 4 cups), and the festivals have been quite helpful in my studies.

May the Almighty bless you and keep you!