YES, the Bible DOES Preach THE PRE-TRIB RAPTURE!!

[CaptainMercy]

I have no time to keep going today -but if you'll return with scriptural proof that there is a Day of the LORD for Believers to 'worship' that is a day of the week, designated for us by the Word of the LORD Jesus Christ, then we can begin from there -okay?
Even the Jews did not have a designated day to 'worship' as you are saying, for the Sabbath was about ceasing from work, and temple sacrifice.
There is no synagogue service ordained in the law on the seventh Day -if so, show me the order of service as proscribed - but it doesn't exist.

This is not the subject of the OP and I will not be caught up in thread hijacking!

 

[yeshuasavedme]

I fail to see what the day of the Lord has to do with pre-trib rapture but if you are refering to the Day of the Lord mentioned in Joel, you are way of base! The Day of the Lord mentioned in Joel is a day of fierce judgement! The mention of John to have been "in the Spirit on the LORD's Day is talking a bout the day of worship! John was refering to his worship of God in the Spirit on the Lord's Day!

I have no time to keep going today -but if you'll return with scriptural proof that there is a Day of the LORD for Believers to 'worship' that is a day of the week, designated for us by the Word of the LORD Jesus Christ, then we can begin from there -okay?
Even the Jews did not have a designated day to 'worship' as you are saying, for the Sabbath was about ceasing from work, and temple sacrifice.
There is no synagogue service ordained in the law on the seventh Day -if so, show me the order of service as proscribed - but it doesn't exist.

This is not the subject of the OP and I will not be caught up in thread hijacking!

On this matter, you threw out a comment about the Day of the LORD, which I give Scriptures for why I believe it begins with the 'pre-trib rapture of the Chruch -the theme of this thread.

Your comment that John was just worshipping on a designated day of the week called 'LORD'S day I challenged you with, for it is not a scriptural teaching, and asked you to prove it.
so I'll go on with the theme, as you now claim it is highjacking to prove your challenge.

 

[CaptainMercy]

On this matter, you threw out a comment about the Day of the LORD, which I give Scriptures for why I believe it begins with the 'pre-trib rapture of the Chruch -the theme of this thread.

Your comment that John was just worshipping on a designated day of the week called 'LORD'S day I challenged you with, for it is not a scriptural teaching, and asked you to prove it.
so I'll go on with the theme, as you now claim it is highjacking to prove your challenge.

You should have read the comment before that one! Here it is again!

I fail to see what the day of the Lord has to do with pre-trib rapture but if you are refering to the Day of the Lord mentioned in Joel, you are way of base! The Day of the Lord mentioned in Joel is a day of fierce judgement! The mention of John to have been "in the Spirit on the LORD's Day is talking a bout the day of worship! John was refering to his worship of God in the Spirit on the Lord's Day!

Look at these words as a statement to the part of the OP! "I fail to see what the day of the Lord has to do with pre-trib rapture...."! Now do you understand why I will not discuss this anymore in this thread! I will start a new one for that discussion later!

 

[yeshuasavedme]

You should have read the comment before that one! Here it is again!
Look at these words as a statement to the part of the OP! "I fail to see what the day of the Lord has to do with pre-trib rapture...."! Now do you understand why I will not discuss this anymore in this thread! I will start a new one for that discussion later!

I fail to see what the day of the Lord has to do with pre-trib rapture but if you are refering to the Day of the Lord mentioned in Joel, you are way of base! The Day of the Lord mentioned in Joel is a day of fierce judgement! The mention of John to have been "in the Spirit on the LORD's Day is talking a bout the day of worship! John was refering to his worship of God in the Spirit on the Lord's Day!

Okay -
But I will continue with the theme, as the Day of the LORD is totally connected to the pre-trib resurrection of the dead in Christ and the 'laqach' of the Church (off the earth as Enoch was), for that Day cannot come, says Paul, until we who are the Church are removed by the harpazo, the gathering together to Him in the air with the resurrected dead in Christ.

The resurrection of the dead and the removal of the congregation of the LORD -His Church- is the beginning of the last day of earth, which has the seven year period of tribulation, called 'one hour', and 'one week', before the LORD cleanses all things that offend off the earth and takes His great power and reigns over His purchased possession for that 'last day, called the thousand years of peace, and earth's Sabbeth before the present creation is melted and regenerated.

Earth has a last day, which is a thousand year period of time, en which the dead en Christ are raised, and the living are regenerated and caught up -harpazo =laqach =raptured, and as Isaiah 26:19-21 says, then enter their rooms in the temple in heaven and shut their doors about them, and as Psalm 75:2,3 say, He will 'laqach' His congregation before He punishes the inhabitants of earth.

John 11:24; Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

eschatos

1) extreme

a) last in time or in place

b) last in a series of places

c) last in a temporal succession

2) the last

a) last, referring to time…

Jesus came in the ‘last days’ of this present creation, and the very last Day is the regeneration and the millennial reign -after the short ‘hour’ of the beasts rule and the total destruction of the mystery of iniquity and the kingdom of the beast and all his servants off this earth -when ‘this generation’ of the wicked shall have finally passed away at the return of the LORD to reign.

 

[christianfilmcrew]

The word says to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord...Where is the Lord now? 2nd Cor 5:8 ~We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Please don't get strange on me .

You have went ahead and gone weird on me christianfilmcrew. They are with the Lord, and the bible does mention paradise 3 times in the bible, one time to the thief, Paul was caught up to Paradise in 2nd Cor 12:4 and it mentions Paradise in Rev..Rev 2:7 ~ He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the PARADISE of God. Which I think is heaven.

I don't deal in what if's, but the Word only. Please come back to earth my brother .

Ah, but I am strange lol God made me unique and I think outside of the box. Let's look back at Genesis. Who did Adam and Eve walk with in the cool of the day?

 

[FreeinChrist]

This actually an interesting statement you made. Do you honestly expect that God spares you from His wrath?

Would not God be justified to let His wrath pour out on you? Are we not all sinful and deserving of His judgment? Is it not by His Grace that we are saved even though we do deserve His wrath?

I would be careful of making such a statement of expecting God to spare you what you and all of us deserve. It is only by Grace that we are saved, not by what we expect or deserve.

1) "Do you honestly expect that God spares you from His wrath? "
YES!! We are promised to be spared His wrath:

1Th 5:8 But since we are of {the} day, let us be sober, having put on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet, the hope of salvation.

1Th 5:9 For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,

1Th 5:10 who died for us, so that whether we are awake or asleep, we will live together with Him.

God demonstrated that He spares the righteous from his wrath. Noah, via an ark, was removed from the area designated for destruction - dry land. The wicked died. Lot was taken out of Sodom before destruction reigned down.

Gen 18:24 "Suppose there are fifty righteous within the city; will You indeed sweep {it} away and not spare the place for the sake of the fifty righteous who are in it?

Gen 18:25 "Far be it from You to do such a thing, to slay the righteous with the wicked, so that the righteous and the wicked are {treated} alike. Far be it from You! Shall not the Judge of all the earth deal justly?"

2) " Would not God be justified to let His wrath pour out on you? Are we not all sinful and deserving of His judgment? Is it not by His Grace that we are saved even though we do deserve His wrath?"

Are you trying to make a point?
Yep, we all deserve His wrath. However:

1Th 5:9 For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,Rom 8:1 Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.
We are saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. Our salvation stands on the blood of the Lamb and His righteousness. Because of Christ, we are not in darkness, but in the light. While we will suffer the trials and tribulation of the world, we will not suffer His wrath.

3) "I would be careful of making such a statement of expecting God to spare you what you and all of us deserve. It is only by Grace that we are saved, not by what we expect or deserve."
I see no problem with my statement. I never said we deserve to be spared.
Part of having faith in God is trusting Him.

1Th 1:10 and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, {that is} Jesus, who rescues us from the wrath to come.

 

[Critias]

The original is speaking of the day of judgment that begins as a thief in the night and ends with the melting of the elements -and Peter said 'that one day', that day of judgment that he just referenced, is the same as a thousand years to the LORD and the thousand years the same as a day.
Then he says Paul references it -with the in betweens.
John saw the entire Day of the LORD, in spirit.

There is no difference in 'Day of the LORD', 'LORD'S day', or 'Day of Christ', and John saw that day 'in spirit'

"I was en spirit en the LORD'S Day" John said, and he then reports it from the open door (the call to come up here) to the melting of the elements and the regeneration of the heavens and the earth -and the judgment of the first seven years and the reign of Peace of the LORD on earth, and it is that one day that is one thousand years long -says John.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/c/1129582159-7832.html#10

Ok, show me where it says that 1000 is = to 1.

You will have to try and prove that Hos does not mean what it does mean. Its very common in Greek to use Hos to to explain what something is like not as something that is the same. If you are going to make this claim, then the over 100 times usage of Hos in Revelation will dramatically change what Revelation is saying.

 

[Critias]

1) "Do you honestly expect that God spares you from His wrath? "
YES!! We are promised to be spared His wrath:

1Th 5:8 But since we are of {the} day, let us be sober, having put on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet, the hope of salvation.

1Th 5:9 For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,

1Th 5:10 who died for us, so that whether we are awake or asleep, we will live together with Him.

God demonstrated that He spares the righteous from his wrath. Noah, via an ark, was removed from the area designated for destruction - dry land. The wicked died. Lot was taken out of Sodom before destruction reigned down.

Gen 18:24 "Suppose there are fifty righteous within the city; will You indeed sweep {it} away and not spare the place for the sake of the fifty righteous who are in it?

Gen 18:25 "Far be it from You to do such a thing, to slay the righteous with the wicked, so that the righteous and the wicked are {treated} alike. Far be it from You! Shall not the Judge of all the earth deal justly?"

2) " Would not God be justified to let His wrath pour out on you? Are we not all sinful and deserving of His judgment? Is it not by His Grace that we are saved even though we do deserve His wrath?"

Are you trying to make a point?
Yep, we all deserve His wrath. However:

1Th 5:9 For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,Rom 8:1 Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.
We are saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. Our salvation stands on the blood of the Lamb and His righteousness. Because of Christ, we are not in darkness, but in the light. While we will suffer the trials and tribulation of the world, we will not suffer His wrath.

3) "I would be careful of making such a statement of expecting God to spare you what you and all of us deserve. It is only by Grace that we are saved, not by what we expect or deserve."
I see no problem with my statement. I never said we deserve to be spared.
Part of having faith in God is trusting Him.

1Th 1:10 and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, {that is} Jesus, who rescues us from the wrath to come.

Then we agree. We will be spared from His wrath, not because we deserve it so that we should expect it, but because of His Grace.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Ok, show me where it says that 1000 is = to 1.

You will have to try and prove that Hos does not mean what it does mean. Its very common in Greek to use Hos to to explain what something is like not as something that is the same. If you are going to make this claim, then the over 100 times usage of Hos in Revelation will dramatically change what Revelation is saying.

I think verse 7 and 8 stand together, and should not be isolated into segments that have completely different meanings, separately:

"But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day [is] with the Lord as a thousand years, and a [that] thousand years as one day."


He -of all people- knew that Day begins as a thief in the night, with the resurrection of the dead in Christ and the mystery of the 'rapture' (harpazo, laqach), of the living saints, he acknowledged Paul's teachings on, who showed the mystery of the Church being taken at the time of the dead in Christ being resurrected -and all before the man of sin could be revealed, which begins the Day of the LORD.

He admits that Paul spoke of these things, and he was not saying the LORD was going to wait a thousand or two thousand years.

He knew the coming of the LORD Jesus was imminent, and yet, he also knew the Day of the LORD was going to be a time of severe judgment, removal of all the wicked from the earth, and the time of the kingdom restored to Israel (which was the last question the disciples asked the LORD before He ascended, "Will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel"?).

He had been promised that he would sit on a throne and judge one of the twelve tribes of Israel, in the 'regeneration' which is that Day of the LORD when the LORD would resurrect the dead in Christ, which is the 'Last Day of the thousand years -and He expected it imminently and was preaching the Gospel of the kingdom in that passage -"it's coming, be ready".


They thought that Day was coming, like 'right now' -not in a thousand years, or two thousand years, and there is absolutely no reason for Peter to think so, and the thousand is mentioned in relation to the 'last Day' of earth, which Peter was speaking of, which begins and ends as Peter described, IMO, and based upon the other teachings of the 'last day' of this earth that begins with the pre-trib 'rapture'.

Peter knew that:
He's coming as a thief in the night to gather his saints to Himself; He's judging the world; He's restoring Israel and setting up His kingdom on earth; He's ruling a thousand years: He's melting the earth and heavens and regenerating them.


And account [that] the longsuffering of our Lord [is] salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
As also in all [his] epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as [they do] also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

 

[Big Mouth Nana]

I fail to see what the day of the Lord has to do with pre-trib rapture but if you are refering to the Day of the Lord mentioned in Joel, you are way of base! The Day of the Lord mentioned in Joel is a day of fierce judgement! The mention of John to have been "in the Spirit on the LORD's Day is talking a bout the day of worship! John was refering to his worship of God in the Spirit on the Lord's Day!

Exactly blessedvalley . I believe that every day is the Lords day, and evidently John thought so also. I just find it amazing that out of all of the whole bible, that the Lords day is mentioned one time, and it plainly shows that it is not the Day of the Lord even though he was having visions of future events. In my Amplified bible, it says, I was [rapt in His Power]on the Lords day. Well gee, if I was "rapt in His power", that would definetly be the Lords Day to me!!! I noticed that you are Pentecostal. I'm Assembly of God...we can understand that being "in the Spirit" .
Evidently yeshuasavedme is referring to the Day of the Lord, and ALL of the Day of the Lord verses refer to the same time frame.... wrath, anger, destruction, and just an all out bad day, LOL. John was not in the Day of the Lord, but had visions concerning this day. Now me being post trib, there is a good part to the Day of the Lord. The second coming happens at the same time, so we escape His wrath.

 

[Critias]

I think verse 7 and 8 stand together, and should not be isolated into segments that have completely different meanings, separately:

"But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day [is] with the Lord as a thousand years, and a [that] thousand years as one day."

First, you still need to show why the bolded "as", hos in Greek, means the same instead of like. You need to show why an adverb was used for comparison and not equality when you claim it is equality.(1000=1)

 

[yeshuasavedme]

First, you still need to show why the bolded "as", hos in Greek, means the same instead of like. You need to show why an adverb was used for comparison and not equality when you claim it is equality.(1000=1)

In the post that I made that you are referencing, I used the 'same' for the 'like' which is the comparing manner of the word in that passage.

My focus is on the 'that One Day' which is that day of judgment and the melting of the elements that begins as a thief in the night and ends with the melting of the elements and the regeneration of the heavens and the earth -Peter's 'Day' is that entire thousand year period; but for you to see that it is also used as a 'same' in the way I used it:


Act 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like [[size=-1]hos][/size] manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.


NASB - Act 1:11 - They also said, "Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched Him go into heaven."
New American Standard Bible © 1995 Lockman Foundation

RSV - Act 1:11 - and said, "Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into heaven? This Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will come in the same way as you saw him go into heaven."

HNV - Act 1:11 - who also said, "You men of the Galil, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Yeshua, who was received up from you into the sky will come back in the same way as you saw him going into the sky."
Hebrew Names Version 2000 Info

I am no Greek Scholar, but Peter is speaking of the period of time in the passage called the day of judgment and is referring to the thousand year time that is coming when the LORD appears, takes His congregation out, judges the earth, and destroys the kingdom of the beast (all also called one 'hour', and one 'week'), but the beginning of that Day that is coming when the LORD will reign gloriously over the earth that John described as a thousand year day that He was taken 'in' spirit, 'in'.

And His return is on His throne of glory, but in the same way as He was seen to go by His disciples, with their eyes, ascending, every eye will see His return to earth, coming from heaven after the seven years.

 

[Tishri1]

The post that said pre-tribbers expect to be spared from His wrath, actually sounds like your more of a pre-wrath rapture believer...

One problem I have, and it's a major one, with pre-trib is that the Bible never, I repeat never makes mention of a 3rd coming of Christ. To believe pre-trib is to believe in

1-Christs first visit to earth 2000 years ago
2-Christs return for the 'rapture'
3-Christs coming back to reign

I'm sorry but the math doesn't add up for a pre-trib. The question is are you pre-trib or pre-wrath, because they are two totally different events.

In the Jewish wedding the bride and the groom meet in a designated place. He doesn't nessessarily go get her....his Dad sounds a shoffar and off they go to meet somewhere...(in the air maybe...hmmm) I'm not saying for sure it has to be a heavenly honeymoon but there is a honeymoon of 7 days...

Also it is a Jewish custom for the Groom to have two people to help facilitate this meeting, one for himself, and one for the bride....The Best man, will keep him and the people informed that the time is comming (Picture the prophet, even Elijah) and the other is for the bride getting her ready to meet her betrothed (The Jews picture Moses for this job) When the Last Trump is sounded these two will be the escorts and witnesses to the Consomation that will soon take place...JMO
curious...

Matthew 17:1-9 NAS Matthew 17:1 And six days later Jesus took with Him Peter and James and John his brother, and brought them up to a high mountain by themselves. 2 And He was transfigured before them; and His face shone like the sun, and His garments became as white as light. 3 And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him. 4 And Peter answered and said to Jesus, "Lord, it is good for us to be here; if You wish, I will make three tabernacles here, one for You, and one for Moses, and one for Elijah." 5 While he was still speaking, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them; and behold, a voice out of the cloud, saying, "This is My beloved Son, with whom I am well-pleased; listen to Him!" 6 And when the disciples heard this, they fell on their faces and were much afraid. 7 And Jesus came to them and touched them and said, "Arise, and do not be afraid." 8 And lifting up their eyes, they saw no one, except Jesus Himself alone. 9 And as they were coming down from the mountain,

 

[Tishri1]

When the LORD comes in the air, at that time that He brings the 'dead in Christ' with Him, when the trumpets sound twice and the dead in Christ and the living saints receive their regenerated forms of thier human being bodies,, He begins at that time the last thousand year period of time for this present creation. His coming at that time is as a thief in the night and is not, repeat, 'is not' when He plants His feet on the Mount of Olives and defends Jerusalem, destroying the armies of the beast:
When He returns to this earth to set up His kingdom and reign on His throne of glory from the Millennial reign temple as Ezekiel described it -all His enemies will be completely destroyed and removed from this earth, after the seven year great tribulation when the kingdom of the beast is judged- then, and only then, at the end of that time of judgment, does He plant His feet on the land, and the coming is 'one' and is not two, for first He removes His congregation, as Psalm 75:2 tells us, and by that gathering to Himself His own (whom He calls to enter their 'rooms' which He went to the cross to prepare 'them', as a 'dwelling place' for the Father; John 14:1-3), and to shut their 'doors' about them, as Isaiah 26:19-21 tells us, and then the final 'one hour', which is only the first seven years of the 'last day' of the thousand years allowed for this present creation, allows the final confrontation to begin with the revealing of the man of sin after the people who are His people, His congregation, are removed by the 'laqach' -as Enoch was; then, that return to the earth, by planting His feet upon the ground is the completion of the second coming; which is when the kingdom of God comes to this earth and His will is done on earth as it is in heaven, which we are to pray for.

The period of time of the seven years, which is the time of 'Jacob's trouble' and the time of the judging of the kingdom of the beast and the putting to an end the 'mystery of iniquity' on earth that began in the Garden, at the fall, when the wicked one got control of the kingdom that was prepared for the first Adam and the sons of Adam, is called only 'one hour' by the LORD, as the beast is allowed to rise in all his power and is judged by the great judgments that proceed from the throne of the LORD in heaven -where His people are taken to be with Him, out of harms' way, for that entire 'hour', which is also called seven years, and one week, in Scripture.

It is one coming, and the entire seven year period is called the 'Revelation of Jesus Christ', by John, as He received the revelation to show us of the time of the 'Day of the LORD', when He is revealed to the entire world as 'the only potentate, King of Kings and LORD of lords', when He judges the inhabitants of this world, puts an end to the 'generation' of the tares (all the wicked who are born of Adam who receive the lies of the devil and who become sons of wrath by believing and acting upon the lies of the devil, without repentence, who are alive on earth at His coming; and all the 'other' ones, who were born of unlawful unions, as it was in the days of Noah "and also after that...").

His coming begins as a thief in the night, suddenly, without warning or remedy, and His return to rule over His kingdom is seen by every eye in heaven and in earth and under the earth, seven years later, and His rule is for the thousand year reign of peace over this present creation, before He regenerates the heavens and the earth, as told of in Scripture.

Maranatha!

Funny how much we agree on the happenings of the Day of the Lord yet you can't see the implications of all this in God's Appointed Times(The Hebrew Fall Festivals)? What you just said is what is discussed and taught and celebrated year after year THRU THE FALL FEASTS to Jews and Gentiles who wish to understand more....well High Five for a great post anyway...

 

[Tishri1]

Critias,
When we -who are now born from above by the spirit of adoption- were children of wrath, by our own deeds, we were only fit to receive the wrath of God; but now we are children of God, and He does not pour wrath out upon His children, only upon the children of the devil, for the only begotten Son of God has tasted our shame, separation, and humiliation, upon the altar (His cross; Psalm 118:27), and is our final, acceptable and accepted atonement for the cleansing and the putting away our uncleanness of being for ever; His blood sprinkled upon His Mercy Seat body represented by the pure gold Mercy Seat, as YHWH, the Living Spirit, second Person, in human flesh, ended the uncleanness of our being and gave us the right to become the sons of God when we receive Him, and we are no longer sons of wrath.

Peter was told to 'rise and eat', three times as a sign of the cleansing of the being which the Son of God accomplished by His blood of sprinkling.
'Call no man unclean, unaccceptable, whom I have cleansed', the LORD told Peter, and one cannot call us 'deserving of wrath' who are cleansed by the blood of atonement, for that is against the commandment of the LORD, as spoken to Peter.

My favorite concordance says the word [size=-1]katharizo[/size] which is translated cleansed, in Acts 10:15, is;
"...b) in a moral sense 1) to free from defilement of sin and from faults 2) to purify from wickedness 3) to free from guilt of sin, to purify... 2) to pronounce clean in a levitical sense"

We are translated from the kingdom of darkness to the kingdom of Light, and we who are no longer children of the night wil be removed before the judgment falls and the wrath is poured out -and before the final man of sin can be revealed, says Paul, for the presence of the Chuch on this earth is the restrainer of the revealing of the final man of sin, and the time that the mystery of iniquity is ended on this earth.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to yeshuasavedme again.

High Five again!

 

[Tishri1]

Thank you for your explanations on here about Rosh Hashannah, Yom Kippur and the Sukkot. I have started studying Jewish history, culture, ceremonies, rituals, ect to better understand the context in which the Bible is written.

The Bible is presented in the Jewish mindset because of the times in which it was written and the fact that Jews were the ones who penned it.

Sadly, many Christians are not interested in learning more about things Jewish. I am finding it to be quite helpful in better understanding the cultural language used therein.

I appreciate that many Messianic Jews on this forum are open to share their Jewish knowledge, like you have.

The things I have learned thus far, ancient Jewish wedding ceremonies, how the Passover was carried out(breaking of the bread to save for later, the 4 cups), and the festivals have been quite helpful in my studies.

May the Almighty bless you and keep you!

Bless you too and thanks, I truely believe that we have much to learn thru these Appointed Times and am soooooooo glad you do too...tell me what is your favorite part of your favorite Feast?

 

[Tishri1]

The Church will not return to dwell on earth until after the thousand year reign is over and the regeneration is complete, and the Church will govern from heaven, for the thousand year reign where the rebel angels have not yet been cast out of -or not yet have completed falling into rebellion, IMO- and are the wicked rulers and principalities in high places that we currently wrestle against, but who will be cast out when we go up, when Michael and his angels fight and kick 'em out.

-We get their dwelling place as ours, we who are His congregation on earth at this time -since Pentecost- when we are 'laqach', as Enoch was; and we will rule over this earth with the LORD Jesus Christ, who also sets His throne of glory on earth in the temple that Ezekiel described, that He will build in Jerusalem for the millennial reign.

I'm going up, but I don't expect to get much authority to rule, personally, but I'll be 'up there', eating manna and drinking good grape juice, entering into good singing and praise times of my LORD and enjoying gardening and fellowshipping with the Believers of all ages.

I do not see it exactly this way...I see us out of the picture(the wrath picture) for seven years only....then satan and his demons are locked away for the remainder of the 1000 years as we all live on earth (some in glorified bodies , some (those who made it thru alive) in earthly bodies) under Yeshua/Jesus' Kingship and after 1000 years Satan is alowed to tempt for the last time those who will rebel (hard to believe it but he actually finds some) and then the final judgement were ALL the Wholly Wicked are cast into the pit forever...Clouds in Hebraic terms often mean People...

Revelation 1:7 7 Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. Even so. Amen.

 

[Tishri1]

There is no "Day of the Lord" in Revelation. John was in the Spirit on the "Lord's Day," ....
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The Lord's Day and the Lord's Supper are Hebrew idioms for all the Festival Days and all the Festival meals and one Festival day Rosh Ha SHannah is also refered to as the Day of the Lord the beginning of both the 1000 years of the reign of the Messiah AND the first seven years of the 1000 will be the Tribulation period

 

[Tishri1]

No way is the tribulation the entire thousand years! and the LORD calls the beginning of the seven years the beginning of the Day of the LORD and His reign is the Sabbath Reign, which is included in the seven years, which he calls just one hour, and just one week -a small amount of time to Him and just the dark before the glorious Day that shall spring forth.

Funny illustration about the Sabbath...It begins at night, the priest stay up all night and cleanse the Temple(yes they are allowed to work while we are suppose to rest) and in the morning everything is white and clean...same with the Trib at the beginning of our 1000 year shabbat...Darkness, cleansing of the earth , followed by a holy reign of the King Messiah Yeshua...and what are we BELIEVERS to do on Shabbat? Rest starting at sunset, and during the darkest part of the day ....

 

[Tishri1]

If he came mid trib it seems more likely given the story of the wise and foolish virgins waiting for the groom. Post trib well its a possibility as well. The problem with pre-trib is where is the logic? It doesn't fit with the nature and character of God which is 'His desire that *none* should perish but all come to the saving knowledge of Christ'. God would be shooting himself in the foot if it was pre-trib. Would the master leave the flock without a sheperd? By that I mean would God really take all the Christians off the face of the earth and leave newbie converts without any sheperds to guide them? That just doesn't seem to fit....

*I know I know everyone is saying Here goes that Feast Lady again* but listen; the Trib IS for those who havent decided one way or another to believe in God or Jesus...this is their LAST CHANCE turn or burn and sadly even for some it will be turn and burn but at least they have turned and saved their souls....it should be the greatest time of revival ever seen (for obvious reasons) and it is just part of what we all learn as we study the Fall Feasts of God.....