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YES or NO: Do The 10 Commandments Still Apply To Us Today? (2)

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Tkjjc

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Tkjcc it went over your head. What I meant was there will be those that want to spiritualize scripture. Yes scripture can be spiritualized but literal ALWAYS takes precedence over figurative.

Are you going to use the means of spiritualizing scripture to mean somethings that it's not?

Marc

Are you going to use the means of spiritualizing scripture to mean somethings that it's not?
No, because to do that is extremely dangerous.

Yes scripture can be spiritualized but literal ALWAYS takes precedence over figurative.
Unless it was directed by the Holy Spirit in the prophetic tone.

What I meant was there will be those that want to spiritualize scripture.
I know I want to, because what a better way to SEE and HEAR it, and how it was GIVEN. Through the Spirit. Why do you think carnal minds make up seemingly false stories, and create divisions between peoples and assemblies? It is because they cannot SEE what it is.

But I will tell you what I saw none the less. Take it or leave it, doesn't weigh on my spirit either way. I won't ask you to believe it, nor do I want you to, unless the Spirit of Truth reveals it to you.

As soon as I really read Is 2:2-4, I saw Jesus the Christ revealed. How His KINGdom was established, how His Ministry came forth, and how those who follow Him, do EVIL to no one, and turn the other cheek when evil is done to us. Weapons are not needed for those who truly follow Him. But that is what I saw. You might see something far off in the distance, but I saw Jesus Crowned King. I see the King give his Law out of heavenly Zion, and His Word in the flesh out of Jerusalem, which is from the foundation of ALL, because in the beginning WAS the Word.

Soon as you read this, you will maybe say, "SEE there is TORAH out of Zion, told ya". But you haven't listened to what I am saying either. I agree that it is Torah, but not the Torah you think of. Which is why I asked you what Torah was, in your definition. Your Torah is completely different than mine. Abraham's was different than Moses. Mine is written on my heart, and it is mine. Only I know what it says, and what convicts me.

Even though our commands ARE the same as far as the 2 Commandments given by Jesus both in the Days of old and the Days of Him walking the Earth, which is to Love, first to God the Father, then our fellow man. ALL other commands should revolve around those 2. Which even the top 10 in stone do. But there are hundreds if not thousands which convict us of sin in the flesh, and even to break 1 of them, is to break ALL of them, and fall short of His Glory. Praise and Glory to Him for the rebirth of our fallen spirits. For only by his Sacrifice are we allowed home.

Yours might be to follow God a certain way, which is fine by me. But you cannot take YOUR Laws, and try to push them on others. If you want to lump up yours with the Laws of Moses, which is the Law of God to the Israelites, so be it. If that is what your heart tells you they are, that is personal and between you and God. I just think you might find it hard to be complete that way. But none the less, it is cool, and I respect you for that. But to say you must follow this, or that, just because it was given to a people thousands of years ago is difficult to say the least. My Father is personal and deals with me on a individual level.

Times have changed, and so the Laws that convict us also have changed, each according to his own, written by God Himself on our hearts, where the Love is. When He died on the cross, times did change. The Covenant changed, the Priesthood changed, and the Worship changed. It became Spiritual, Individual, but yet with a common purpose. We are each called by Father according to what He needs, and desires for us. This is why there is no set path to tell you to follow, for Jesus ALONE blazed the trail. How we each get there, and we will, will be according to His Will.
 
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Tkjjc

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I don't believe in the doctrine of the millennial kingdom. I don't want us to change the topic. if you want to debate on that start a thread on it.

Agreed, I don't see where it is a literal kingdom on earth, in the flesh. If you know the verse, point me in the right direction :). Or the topic thread.
 
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PROPHECYKID

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Agreed, I don't see where it is a literal kingdom on earth, in the flesh. If you know the verse, point me in the right direction :). Or the topic thread.
I can explain their general belief on this.
When God comes back to earth the Jews cannot be saved as yet because of their neglection of him. So God along with his saints will be reigning over the jews for 1000 years. In that time they will rebuild the temple and continue offering sacrifices until God causes the sacrifice to cease according to the 70th week in Daniels prophecy. At the end of the 1000 years God judges the world again but only based on works.
I may not have it all right but that i basically it.
 
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PROPHECYKID

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Agreed, I don't see where it is a literal kingdom on earth, in the flesh. If you know the verse, point me in the right direction :). Or the topic thread.
Ezekiel 38 - 48. Zechariah 13, 14.
The things to note is that the book of Revelation does not support their claims on this.
 
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Messianic Jewboy

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No, because to do that is extremely dangerous.

Unless it was directed by the Holy Spirit in the prophetic tone.

I know I want to, because what a better way to SEE and HEAR it, and how it was GIVEN. Through the Spirit. Why do you think carnal minds make up seemingly false stories, and create divisions between peoples and assemblies? It is because they cannot SEE what it is.

But I will tell you what I saw none the less. Take it or leave it, doesn't weigh on my spirit either way. I won't ask you to believe it, nor do I want you to, unless the Spirit of Truth reveals it to you.

As soon as I really read Is 2:2-4, I saw Jesus the Christ revealed. How His KINGdom was established, how His Ministry came forth, and how those who follow Him, do EVIL to no one, and turn the other cheek when evil is done to us. Weapons are not needed for those who truly follow Him. But that is what I saw. You might see something far off in the distance, but I saw Jesus Crowned King. I see the King give his Law out of heavenly Zion, and His Word in the flesh out of Jerusalem, which is from the foundation of ALL, because in the beginning WAS the Word.

Soon as you read this, you will maybe say, "SEE there is TORAH out of Zion, told ya". But you haven't listened to what I am saying either. I agree that it is Torah, but not the Torah you think of. Which is why I asked you what Torah was, in your definition. Your Torah is completely different than mine. Abraham's was different than Moses. Mine is written on my heart, and it is mine. Only I know what it says, and what convicts me.

Even though our commands ARE the same as far as the 2 Commandments given by Jesus both in the Days of old and the Days of Him walking the Earth, which is to Love, first to God the Father, then our fellow man. ALL other commands should revolve around those 2. Which even the top 10 in stone do. But there are hundreds if not thousands which convict us of sin in the flesh, and even to break 1 of them, is to break ALL of them, and fall short of His Glory. Praise and Glory to Him for the rebirth of our fallen spirits. For only by his Sacrifice are we allowed home.

Yours might be to follow God a certain way, which is fine by me. But you cannot take YOUR Laws, and try to push them on others. If you want to lump up yours with the Laws of Moses, which is the Law of God to the Israelites, so be it. If that is what your heart tells you they are, that is personal and between you and God. I just think you might find it hard to be complete that way. But none the less, it is cool, and I respect you for that. But to say you must follow this, or that, just because it was given to a people thousands of years ago is difficult to say the least. My Father is personal and deals with me on a individual level.

Times have changed, and so the Laws that convict us also have changed, each according to his own, written by God Himself on our hearts, where the Love is. When He died on the cross, times did change. The Covenant changed, the Priesthood changed, and the Worship changed. It became Spiritual, Individual, but yet with a common purpose. We are each called by Father according to what He needs, and desires for us. This is why there is no set path to tell you to follow, for Jesus ALONE blazed the trail. How we each get there, and we will, will be according to His Will.

Yours might be to follow God a certain way, which is fine by me. But you cannot take YOUR Laws, and try to push them on others. If you want to lump up yours with the Laws of Moses, which is the Law of God to the Israelites, so be it. If that is what your heart tells you they are, that is personal and between you and God. I just think you might find it hard to be complete that way. But none the less, it is cool, and I respect you for that. But to say you must follow this, or that, just because it was given to a people thousands of years ago is difficult to say the least. My Father is personal and deals with me on a individual level.

My laws? Tkjcc they are God's laws. Disobedience = unbelief.

Tkjcc I have never pushed God's Laws on anyone. I have only declared them. If you think that declaring them as Yeshua did is pushing them on you then so be it.

But to say you must follow this, or that, just because it was given to a people thousands of years ago is difficult to say the least. My Father is personal and deals with me on a individual level.

No Tkjcc God says what to follow or not to follow. Disobedience = unbelief in what He says. If one believes God then they will do what He says and will believe what He says to be true.

1 Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it. 2 For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it. 3 For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said:

“ So I swore in My wrath,

‘ They shall not enter My rest,’”
although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4 For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”; 5 and again in this place: “They shall not enter My rest.”
6 Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience

To paraphrase:"If the ones did not enter the land because of disobience.... "How much more will those will those not enter the World to Come because of disobedience"

The question is are you or are you not going to believe God which results in obedience? Yes weightiest of all commands to love God, if take away the Torah you are taking away faith.

Is Yeshua the giver of the Torah or not? If you believe He is(I do) then you have to reconcile in your own mind how He would give the Torah to later release you of the Torah. You have to reconcile that this is the 'kind' of God you believe and worship. "I gave the Torah now because of My sacrifice you are now released from the Torah". "Or up until THIS POINT the Torah applied, but now AFTER THIS POINT you are now released.

This is not the 'nature' of God according to His Word.

You might say "Well He has the right to change because after all He's the Creator and Master of all". To me that's just an excuse.

Marc











 
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Messianic Jewboy

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Is Jesus our High Priest Marc?

Yes and He's King.

Is Yeshua the giver of the Torah or not? If you believe He is(I do) then you have to reconcile in your own mind how He would give the Torah to later release you of the Torah. You have to reconcile that this is the 'kind' of God you believe and worship. "I gave the Torah, now because of My sacrifice you are now released from the Torah". "Or up until THIS POINT the Torah applied, but now AFTER THIS POINT you are now released.

This is not the 'nature' of God according to His Word.

You might say "Well He has the right to change because after all He's the Creator and Master of all". To me that's just an excuse.

Another question. Paul said: the purpose of the Torah is to lead us to Christ, correct?Paul said the purpose of the law(Torah) is to drive us to repentance and mercy at His feet. So the question is once the Torah does that does the Torah cease to be 'invalid'?

Marc
 
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IamAdopted

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Here we see who the 10 Commandments were given to. We also see when this covenant began..
Deu 5:1 Then Moses summoned all Israel and said to them: "Hear, O Israel, the statutes and the ordinances which I am speaking today in your hearing, that you may learn them and observe them carefully.
Deu 5:2 "The LORD our God made a covenant with us at Horeb.
Deu 5:3 "The LORD did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with us, with all those of us alive here today

Now we have a new covenant.. His blood.. From the foundation of the World this was Gods plan for mans redemption..
 
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Messianic Jewboy

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Here we see who the 10 Commandments were given to. We also see when this covenant began..
Deu 5:1 Then Moses summoned all Israel and said to them: "Hear, O Israel, the statutes and the ordinances which I am speaking today in your hearing, that you may learn them and observe them carefully.
Deu 5:2 "The LORD our God made a covenant with us at Horeb.
Deu 5:3 "The LORD did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with us, with all those of us alive here today

Now we have a new covenant.. His blood.. From the foundation of the World this was Gods plan for mans redemption..

IAA according to scripture was Israel to keep the Torah for themselves? In other words what did God(Yeshua) mean when He said "be a light to the nations".

Yeshua also rehearsed this again in Matthew 5:15-16

14 “You are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden. 15
Nor do they light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house.
16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven.

Marc
 
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Messianic Jewboy

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Yup.. Two different covenants.. Still that same reason. To be a light to our God and King Jesus Christ..

I'll ask the question again does both covenants employ the Torah?

Interesting IAA you have said many times that Matthew didn't apply to you because of the audience Yeshua was speaking too.

Marc
 
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IamAdopted

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I'll ask the question again does both covenants employ the Torah?

Interesting IAA you have said many times that Matthew didn't apply to you because of the audience Yeshua was speaking too.

Marc
Imply? Explain. Do we mix the old covenant with the new? Is this what you are asking.. I am not an Isrealite according to the flesh.. This is the commandment I follow.
1Jn 3:22 and whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do the things that are pleasing in His sight.
1Jn 3:23 This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.
 
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Messianic Jewboy

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Imply? Explain. Do we mix the old covenant with the new? Is this what you are asking.. I am not an Isrealite according to the flesh.. This is the commandment I follow.
1Jn 3:22 and whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do the things that are pleasing in His sight.
1Jn 3:23 This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.

IAA does the old covenant and new covenant both employ the Torah or not?

So since you say you are not an Israelite the New Covenant doesn't apply to you? Because both covenants employ the Torah. He is writing His Torah on our hearts. We all are at different levels of sanctification. But the fact is that He is doing the doing by the Spirit.... He's writing His Torah on our hearts. Unless you are not a participant of the New Covenant.

And the greatest commandment of the Torah is: "I am the Lord your God...." the first commandment. To know that He is the Creator.

Marc
 
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Messianic Jewboy

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Jesus was speaking to the Isrealites when He spoke about the 10 commandments. They would understand what He was saying. I a Gentile would not have known what He was Speaking of because I was not under that covenant.. :)

But you know what He was speaking now, don't you?

So does what He said apply to you or not?

The New Covenant is what? It's in Jeremiah 31.

Are you saying you are a not participant in the New Covenant?

Marc
 
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Messianic Jewboy

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Jesus was speaking to the Isrealites when He spoke about the 10 commandments. They would understand what He was saying. I a Gentile would not have known what He was Speaking of because I was not under that covenant.. :)

IAA since Jeremiah 31 is the only place in all of scripture about the New Covenant in it's completeness, what does Jeremiah 31 say?

Marc
 
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IamAdopted

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IAA does the old covenant and new covenant both employ the Torah or not?

So since you say you are not an Israelite the New Covenant doesn't apply to you? Because both covenants employ the Torah. He is writing His Torah on our hearts. We all are at different levels of sanctification. But the fact is that He is doing the doing by the Spirit.... He's writing His Torah on our hearts. Unless you are not a participant of the New Covenant.

And the greatest commandment of the Torah is: "I am the Lord your God...." the first commandment. To know that He is the Creator.

Marc
This is where you go wrong. For the new covenant is the Blood of Christ. Being born again. Grafted into Christ. Not Isreal.. The new covenant is one of grace through Faith not of works of the law.. Isreal has got to now come to the Blood of Jesus and the gift of grace through Faith. It is a whole new covenant with Christ now as our High Priest and us as living stones.. Big Big difference..
 
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Messianic Jewboy

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This is where you go wrong. For the new covenant is the Blood of Christ. Being born again. Grafted into Christ. Not Isreal.. The new covenant is one of grace through Faith not of works of the law.. Isreal has got to now come to the Blood of Jesus and the gift of grace through Faith. It is a whole new covenant with Christ now as our High Priest and us as living stones.. Big Big difference..

IAA this is where you go wrong. For some reason you don't want to address the New Covenant in it's completeness in Jeremiah 31.

Also this is where you go wrong to..... works follows true faith just like Abraham.

Marc
 
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Messianic Jewboy

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This is where you go wrong. For the new covenant is the Blood of Christ. Being born again. Grafted into Christ. Not Isreal.. The new covenant is one of grace through Faith not of works of the law.. Isreal has got to now come to the Blood of Jesus and the gift of grace through Faith. It is a whole new covenant with Christ now as our High Priest and us as living stones.. Big Big difference..

Right it's a whole new covenant. The first was written on stone. The second the same that was written on stone is being written on our hearts by Him, He's doing the writing by the Holy Spirit. Both covenants employ the law unless you can prove otherwise.

Marc
 
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