YES or NO: Do The 10 Commandments Still Apply To Us Today? (2)

[Messianic Jewboy]

I like it personal as well. If I am His subject, I will obey Him. Obedience is my part of our RELATIONSHIP.

Really? You obey, I'll Love. I'll get more seed planted, and you can do, well, whatever it is you do.
Love is the ONLY part of MY relationship. He has already done the Hard Part. Praise be HIS Name!!

If you love Me you will keep My commandments This is our Masters words.Why is it so hard for to believe His words that love is keeping His commandments, it's part of the relationship. If you have a problem with it then you have a problem with His words.

Yes I love Him so I keep His commandments.

Did you know that one of the weightier matters of the Torah is Faith. In fact it is weightiest matter. So are you teaching a message to Die to Faith?

Because we are to live by Faith. If the Torah is done away with, then so is Faith, Mercy and Justice.

Tkjcc if you really believe Him you will believe that His word is true and should result in obedience. Why? Because He said so.

Either that or God lied when He called the Mosaic commands "eternal" and "everlasting." So are you calling God a liar?



Marc

 

[IamAdopted]

If you love Me you will keep My commandments This is our Masters words.Why is it so hard for to believe His words that love is keeping His commandments, it's part of the relationship. If you have a problem with it then you have a problem with His words.

Yes I love Him so I keep His commandments.

Did you know that one of the weightier matters of the Torah is Faith. In fact it is weightiest matter. So are you teaching a message to Die to Faith?

Because we are to live by Faith. If the Torah is done away with, then so is Faith, Mercy and Justice.

Tkjcc if you really believe Him you will believe that His word is true and should result in obedience. Why? Because He said so.

Either that or God lied when He called the Mosaic commands "eternal" and "everlasting." So are you calling God a liar?



Marc

Faith does not come for hearing the law or the Torah.. Good try though. Mercy does not come through the torah.. and Grace comes through Christ who fulfilled the Torah then died to paid its penalty for all men.

 

[IamAdopted]

We love Him Because He first loved us.. Freely we have been given so we are to freely give.

 

[Tkjjc]

If you love Me you will keep My commandments This is our Masters words.Why is it so hard for to believe His words that love is keeping His commandments, it's part of the relationship. If you have a problem with it then you have a problem with His words.

Yes I love Him so I keep His commandments.

Did you know that one of the weightier matters of the Torah is Faith. In fact it is weightiest matter. So are you teaching a message to Die to Faith?

Because we are to live by Faith. If the Torah is done away with, then so is Faith, Mercy and Justice.

Tkjcc if you really believe Him you will believe that His word is true and should result in obedience. Why? Because He said so.

Either that or God lied when He called the Mosaic commands "eternal" and "everlasting." So are you calling God a liar?
Marc

Because we are to live by Faith. If the Torah is done away with, then so is Faith, Mercy and Justice.

Whatever dude. The Torah doesn't bring Faith. Abraham, Moses, Noah, Jacob, Issac. None of these had this Torah^^

If you love Me you will keep My commandments This is our Masters words.Why is it so hard for to believe His words that love is keeping His commandments, it's part of the relationship. If you have a problem with it then you have a problem with His words.

And what are they Marc? And you can only use those He personally preached about, since you are quoting Him.

Yes I love Him so I keep His commandments.

Good, how many you Honor? Because if you can number them, you have missed the point, of even having just 1.

Tkjcc if you really believe Him you will believe that His word is true and should result in obedience. Why? Because He said so.

I'll tell you what Marc. When we get there, mud will be on one of our faces, and I want to stand next to you. OK?

Either that or God lied when He called the Mosaic commands "eternal" and "everlasting." So are you calling God a liar?

More trappings there Marc. "Are you calling God a liar?" Sounds like the sepent in the Garden of God. "You REALLY won't die, you'll just be like GODS, KNOWING GOOD VERSES SIN." But still not getting it. Even though that ORAL LAW was passed to EVE, she still fell, which then she seduced Adam to fall.

 

[Messianic Jewboy]

Whatever dude. The Torah doesn't bring Faith. Abraham, Moses, Noah, Jacob, Issac. None of these had this Torah^^ Tkjcc the weightiest command of the Torah is faith. The Torah doesn't bring faith.



And what are they Marc? And you can only use those He personally preached about, since you are quoting Him.



Good, how many you Honor? Because if you can number them, you have missed the point, of even having just 1. Ah you don't get it do you?




I'll tell you what Marc. When we get there, mud will be on one of our faces, and I want to stand next to you. OK?



More trappings there Marc. "Are you calling God a liar?" Sounds like the sepent in the Garden of God. "You REALLY won't die, you'll just be like GODS, KNOWING GOOD VERSES SIN." But still not getting it. Even though that ORAL LAW was passed to EVE, she still fell, which then she seduced Adam to fall.More trappings? Is God a liar or not? Either that or God lied when He called the Mosaic commands "eternal" and "everlasting." Tkjcc He said so not me.So are you calling God a liar or not?

Marc

 

[Tkjjc]

Tkjcc the weightiest command of the Torah is faith. The Torah doesn't bring faith.

If it takes a command for you to have faith bro, you have missed the boat. It done set sail!

Ah you don't get it do you?

And you dodged the question again.

Is God a liar or not? Either that or God lied when He called the Mosaic commands "eternal" and "everlasting." Tkjcc He said so not me.So are you calling God a liar or not?

Nope. They are eternal, and everlasting. Now ask me why they are, and as I explained earlier, they HAVE TO BE. For all future generations who come after the flesh will know that Jesus fulfilled the Law and the Prophets. Without this Law and the Prophets, what is Perfect compared to? In other words, how can Jesus be perfect, if we don't know what it means to be perfect? Are you perfect?

 

[Messianic Jewboy]

If it takes a command for you to have faith bro, you have missed the boat. It done set sail! Didn't Jesus say that the greatest commandment was to love God? [SIZE=-1]Teacher, which is the [/SIZE]greatest commandment[SIZE=-1] in the Torah?[/SIZE]


And you dodged the question again. Nope Tkjcc you bailed out. Abraham and David pleased God but where far from being perfect just like me.God even said David wasn't perfect but He said David was blameless. Your assumption that you must be perfect is correct for an unbeliever who wants aquittal from sin but for a believer who is supposed to understand the Gospel this belief shows ingnorance of God's covenant and the Gospel. Blameless is the highest goal one can obtain in this life, even Noah, Job and David were sinners and had to repent. If you understand the Gospel you will understand that God will not condemn you because imperfection remains. There are those that don't understand our covenant with God, typically respond to someone like me professing loyalty to God's Torah with statements such as no one can please God by observing His Torah and then there are those that require or proclaim to a person like myself to accept anti-Torah Gospel by accepting their assumption that God requires 100% perfection for the believer. We are pardoned from sin and not aquitted of sin.



Nope. They are eternal, and everlasting. Now ask me why they are, and as I explained earlier, they HAVE TO BE. For all future generations who come after the flesh will know that Jesus fulfilled the Law and the Prophets. Without this Law and the Prophets, what is Perfect compared to? In other words, how can Jesus be perfect, if we don't know what it means to be perfect? Are you perfect? No I am not perfect Tkjcc you bailed out because you have said you couldn't be perfect. NOWHERE does scripture say we have to perfect A person is only made righteous in accord with his or her degree of sanctification and faithfulness that is not completed until the resurrection or transformation of the body at the second coming. Tkjcc I'm referring to:

Exo 12:24 "And you shall observe this event as an ordinance for you and your children forever.


Exo 28:43 "They shall be on Aaron and on his sons when they enter the tent of meeting, or when they approach the altar to minister in the holy place, so that they do not incur guilt and die. It shall be a statute forever to him and to his descendants after him

Exo 31:16 'So the sons of Israel shall observe the sabbath, to celebrate the sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant.'


Exo 31:17 "It is a sign between Me and the sons of Israel forever; for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, but on the seventh day He ceased from labor, and was refreshed."

Num 18:19 "All the offerings of the holy gifts, which the sons of Israel offer to the LORD, I have given to you and your sons and your daughters with you, as a perpetual allotment. It is an everlasting covenant of salt before the LORD to you and your descendants with you."

Marc

 

[Tkjjc]

Didn't Jesus say that the greatest commandment was to love God? [SIZE=-1]Teacher, which is the [/SIZE]greatest commandment[SIZE=-1] in the Torah?[/SIZE]

What does FAITH have to do with LOVE? Do you see love here in the definition of faith????

Hebrews 11
1Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.
2For by it the men of old gained approval.
3By faith we understand that the worlds were prepared by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things which are visible.

Your assumption that you must be perfect is correct for an unbeliever who wants aquittal from sin but for a believer who is supposed to understand the Gospel this belief shows ingnorance of God's covenant and the Gospel.

Do we even read the same Bible?

- Mat 5:48 -
"Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

P.S. This was Jesus saying this in case you didn't read it.

There are those that don't understand our covenant with God, typically respond to someone like me professing loyalty to God's Torah with statements such as no one can please God by observing His Torah and then there are those that require or proclaim to a person like myself to accept anti-Torah Gospel by accepting their assumption that God requires 100% perfection for the believer. We are pardoned from sin and not aquitted of sin.

Again another yet mistake.
2nd Peter 1:9
For he who lacks these is blind short-sighted, having forgotten purification from his former sins.

Intent of the Law
Galatians 3

15Brethren, I speak in terms of human relations: even though it is only a man's covenant, yet when it has been ratified, no one sets it aside or adds conditions to it. 16Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed He does not say, "And to seeds," as referring to many, but rather to one, "And to your seed," that is, Christ. 17What I am saying is this: the Law, which came four hundred and thirty years later, does not invalidate a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to nullify the promise.18For if the inheritance is based on law, it is no longer based on a promise; but God has granted it to Abraham by means of a promise. 19Why the Law then? It was added because of transgressions, having been ordained through angels by the agency of a mediator, until the seed would come to whom the promise had been made. 20Now a mediator is not for one party only; whereas God is only one. 21Is the Law then contrary to the promises of God? May it never be! For if a law had been given which was able to impart life, then righteousness would indeed have been based on law. 22But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed. 24Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith.25But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. 26For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.


AMEN!!!!! Have you even read this Marc? Good stuff here!

No I am not perfect Tkjcc you bailed out because you have said you couldn't be perfect. NOWHERE does scripture say we have to perfect A person is only made righteous in accord with his or her degree of sanctification and faithfulness that is not completed until the resurrection or transformation of the body at the second coming. Tkjcc I'm referring to:

The underlined is a lie.

- Mat 5:48 -
"Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

A person is only made righteous in accord with his or her degree of sanctification and faithfulness that is not completed until the resurrection or transformation of the body at the second coming.

Again another lie. We are righteous by the Blood of Jesus the Christ. Sorry if you aren't brother. This is a gift from Him, who did KEEP the LAW Perfect!

Romans 5:17
For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.

Rom 5:19
For as through the one man's(ADAM) disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One(JESUS) the many will be made righteous.

1st John
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Rev 22:11
He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

 

[Messianic Jewboy]

Do we even read the same Bible?

- Mat 5:48 -
"Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

P.S. This was Jesus saying this in case you didn't read it.

The Greek word for perfect teleios means to be complete. This teaching mirrors the following:As God is, so shall you be: As God is merciful, so shall you too, be merciful.

The underlined is a lie.

- Mat 5:48 -
"Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Nope. The Greek word for perfect teleios means to be complete. This teaching mirrors the following from the Talmud I believe:As God is, so shall you be: As God is merciful, so shall you too, be merciful.


Marc

 

[Tkjjc]

The Greek word for perfect teleios means to be complete. This teaching mirrors the following:As God is, so shall you be: As God is merciful, so shall you too, be merciful.

Nope. The Greek word for perfect teleios means to be complete. This teaching mirrors the following from the Talmud I believe:As God is, so shall you be: As God is merciful, so shall you too, be merciful.


Marc

τέλειος=teleios
1) brought to its end, finished
2) wanting nothing necessary to completeness
3) perfect
4) that which is perfect
..a) consummate human integrity and virtue
..b) of men
.....1) full grown, adult, of full age, mature

Hmm, looks like the way it was supposed to be written Marc.

 

[Messianic Jewboy]

AMEN!!!!! Have you even read this Marc? Good stuff here!

The context of Chapter 3 Tkjcc is to explain, from the Old Testament scriptures, why circumcision and Torah keeping are not prerequisites to receiving salvation.

There was another 'gospel' being preached, the 'gospel of circumcision. The Gentiles were not accepted by those who were "of the circumcision" because they believed that even though the Gentiles received Yahushua, that was not good enough. They believed that the Gentiles were not sons of Abraham and they were not saved until they were first circumcised and kept the Torah.

O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among youas crucified?

This is the context. Once you can wrap your mind around the context of Galatians then it becomes apparent through the Spirit what Paul is teaching.

There's not a single verse in Galatians that says the Torah is abolished.

When I study I try to get the context versus picking out verses.

Marc

 

[Messianic Jewboy]

from teloV - telos 5056; complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.); neuter (as noun, with 3588) completeness:--of full age, man, perfect.

esesqe oun umeiV teleioi wsper o pathr umwn o en toiV ouranoiV teleioV estin

Marc

 

[IamAdopted]

We cannot be complete unless Christ be in us for it is His holiness makes us Holy and nothing we do to get there.. This is where you want to try and make yourself holy by obeying the 10 commandments. The 10 commandments accuse us before God. For if you break one then you break all. So trying to follow the 10 commandmenst only cuts your nose of to spite your face..

 

[Messianic Jewboy]

τέλειος=teleios
1) brought to its end, finished
2) wanting nothing necessary to completeness
3) perfect
4) that which is perfect
..a) consummate human integrity and virtue
..b) of men
.....1) full grown, adult, of full age, mature

Hmm, looks like the way it was supposed to be written Marc.

We cannot be complete unless Christ be in us for it is His holiness makes us Holy and nothing we do to get there.. This is where you want to try and make yourself holy by obeying the 10 commandments. The 10 commandments accuse us before God. For if you break one then you break all. So trying to follow the 10 commandmenst only cuts your nose of to spite your face..

I agree if it is you that is trying to keep the Torah.

You don't seek obedience to the law through human effort and then receive salvation; you receive salvation through Christ dwelliing within so that you have the power to walk in obedience. After all His Spirit should be the Spirit of obedience. Even Tkjcc has said that He kept the Torah perfectly correct. So what's dwelling inside of us? One that kept the Torah perfectly.

Do you or do you not have the Christ that kept the Torah perfectly dwelling inside you? Do you or do you not have the Christ that was obedient?

Marc

 

[IamAdopted]

[/SIZE][/B]The context of Chapter 3 Tkjcc is to explain, from the Old Testament scriptures, why circumcision and Torah keeping are not prerequisites to receiving salvation.

There was another 'gospel' being preached, the 'gospel of circumcision. The Gentiles were not accepted by those who were "of the circumcision" because they believed that even though the Gentiles received Yahushua, that was not good enough. They believed that the Gentiles were not sons of Abraham and they were not saved until they were first circumcised and kept the Torah.

O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among youas crucified?

This is the context. Once you can wrap your mind around the context of Galatians then it becomes apparent through the Spirit what Paul is teaching.

There's not a single verse in Galatians that says the Torah is abolished.

When I study I try to get the context versus picking out verses.

Marc

Sure it does.. Look at the free woman and the slave woman.. You try as hard as you want but you preach a different Gospel..Paul had to deal with Judaism also.. In fact He had to correct Peter for falling into the same.. The 10 commandments were not written until the after the Isrealites came out from Egypt.. This was Gods covenant with them.. Not with the gentiles.. We are dead to the Law.. Dead to it. Scripture also tells us we are dead to sin.. So if we are dead to it then it no longer has jurisdiction over us. For we have been crucified with Christ.. Made new in the Spirit.. Yipee.. Praise God for His salvation.. Praise God for our penalty of sin being paid for once for all... Once..

 

[IamAdopted]

I agree if it is you that is trying to keep the Torah.

You don't seek obedience to the law through human effort and then receive salvation; you receive salvation through Christ indwelling so that you have the power to walk in obedience.

Marc

Tee hee

 

[Messianic Jewboy]

We cannot be complete unless Christ be in us for it is His holiness makes us Holy and nothing we do to get there.. This is where you want to try and make yourself holy by obeying the 10 commandments. The 10 commandments accuse us before God. For if you break one then you break all. So trying to follow the 10 commandmenst only cuts your nose of to spite your face..

Abraham and David pleased God but where far from being perfect just like me.God even said David wasn't perfect but He said David was blameless. Your assumption that you must be perfect is correct for an unbeliever who wants aquittal from sin but for a believer who is supposed to understand the Gospel this belief shows ingnorance of God's covenant and the Gospel. Blameless is the highest goal one can obtain in this life, even Noah, Job and David were sinners and had to repent. If you understand the Gospel you will understand that God will not condemn you because imperfection remains. There are those that don't understand our covenant with God, typically respond to someone like me professing loyalty to God's Torah with statements such as no one can please God by observing His Torah and then there are those that require or proclaim to a person like myself to accept anti-Torah Gospel by accepting their assumption that God requires 100% perfection for the believer. We are pardoned from sin and not aquitted of sin.

Marc

 

[Messianic Jewboy]

Tee hee

Because it wasn't the Torah that was faulty, it's us that are faulty on our own effort.

Do you or do you not have a Torah observant Christ living within you?

Marc

 

[IamAdopted]

Abraham and David pleased God but where far from being perfect just like me.God even said David wasn't perfect but He said David was blameless. Your assumption that you must be perfect is correct for an unbeliever who wants aquittal from sin but for a believer who is supposed to understand the Gospel this belief shows ingnorance of God's covenant and the Gospel. Blameless is the highest goal one can obtain in this life, even Noah, Job and David were sinners and had to repent. If you understand the Gospel you will understand that God will not condemn you because imperfection remains. There are those that don't understand our covenant with God, typically respond to someone like me professing loyalty to God's Torah with statements such as no one can please God by observing His Torah and then there are those that require or proclaim to a person like myself to accept anti-Torah Gospel by accepting their assumption that God requires 100% perfection for the believer. We are pardoned from sin and not aquitted of sin.

Marc

We are saved from sin and slaves to righteousness. We are DEAD to sin as scripture tells us..

 

[PROPHECYKID]

We cannot be complete unless Christ be in us for it is His holiness makes us Holy and nothing we do to get there.. This is where you want to try and make yourself holy by obeying the 10 commandments. The 10 commandments accuse us before God. For if you break one then you break all. So trying to follow the 10 commandmenst only cuts your nose of to spite your face..

So we should not try to keep God's 10 commandments? SO we should just continue in sin so that grace may abound. God does not want that for us. You guys are amazing sometimes.