M
MamaZ
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Show me where the earth is billions of years old. For one of Gods days is as 1000 years to us..
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Why would you think it isn't?
I myself have no problem with it being billions of years old but since this is off topic there is a thread here on it
http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=5296970&page=5&highlight=earth
Apparent Age of Universe and Earth
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Interestingly enough, you still haven't answered any of my questions about which other parts of the bible are or are not litteral. This is the thing, the bible, which is the Word of God, says seven days. But man says, well we shouldn't take it litteral. Now you can side with man, but i'm going to go with what the Word of God says.
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Doveaman
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YES, I have read Genesis. YES, I see the Lord rested. YES, I read Exo. 20. YES, I see the Sabbath day command therein. And, YES, I read the OT.
But I also say YES to the following verses:
"If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood (for on the basis of it the law was given to the people), why was there still need for another priest to come…For when there is a change of the priesthood, there must also be a change of the law…The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless (for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God…Jesus has become the guarantee of a better covenant" (Heb 7:11-22).
And "He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant- — not of the letter (The law) but of the Spirit (Christ); for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone (Ten Commandments), came with glory…will not the ministry of the Spirit (Christ) be even more glorious? If the ministry that condemns men (The law) is glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness (Christ)…And if what was fading away (The law) came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts" (Christ)! (2 Cor 3:6-11).
From these verses:
I see a law that has CHANGED.
I see a law that is SET ASIDE.
I see a law that is WEAK and USELESS.
I see a law that MAKES NOTHING PERFECT.
I see a law that CONDEMNS MEN.
I see a law that KILLS.
I see a law that BRINGS DEATH.
I see a law that HAS FADED AWAY.
And I see a law ENGRAVED in LETTERS on STONE, which are CLEARLY the TEN COMMANDMENTS. These FACTS are UNDENIABLE.
Why would I want to be INVOLVED in something like this?
All this sounds DANGEROUS to me.
This sounds like something to be AVOIDED, not something to EMBRACE.
Anyone who embraces this clearly CANNOT see, or they DON'T WANT to see.
But these DANGERS are OBVIOUS.
So I AVOID them.
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In seeing they see not and in hearing they hear not...The only danger here is neglecting to give the sabbath the honor that it is due. To break the law of God is to place one's self under the penalty of that law. If you love me keep my commandments. No one said the law makes you perfect. But we are still to obey it. Why is that so hard to understand? Christ gave us this law. Love the Lord thy God with all thy heart and with all thy strength and with all thy might = commandments 1-3. It's not for harm but out of love that His law has been revealed to us, so that we could see sin, recognize it for what it is, and avoid it.
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Tu Es Petrus
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Okay. To start with, "Revelation." Everyone knows that it uses fantastic imagery and symobology. It is still scripture, and therefore it is true, but it is not to be taken literally.
Then there are verses in books like "Psalms". For example, referring to God, it says "How precious is Your lovingkindness, O God! And the children of men take refuge in the shadow of Your wings" (Psalm 36:7). I think it is fair to say the God does NOT have wings, so we have more poetic symbology here.
Is that good enough for starters?
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Doveaman
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(Heb 7:18-19: There is an annulling of the former commandment because of its weakness and unprofitableness, for the law made nothing perfect and is what we need to AVOID.
(2 Cor 3:7: The ministry of death, written and engraved on stones is what we need to AVOID.
(Heb 7:22: "Jesus has become the guarantee of a better covenant" and is Who we need to EMBRACE.
Why is this so difficult to comprehend?
STOP closing your eyes and LOOK.
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I can go with you on Revelation, of course if you remember my previous post, I said that those texts which are figurative are explained as such. We see this in the explanations given to Daniel. Same thing with the psalms written by David. He was a song writter so we understand that he is being symbolic.
However there is nothing noting that the texts in Genesis are to be taken in any symbolic context. The bible explains itself. By saying that it is impossible for the world to have been created by God in seven days is to say that there is something that God cannot do.
You give no justifiable reason to not believe the Genesis accuont other than the fact that you don't believe that the serpent was able to talk.
And still you have not answered the other questions. You touch on Revelation, ok, that's explained by Daniel. What about the other examples I gave. Are they litteral accounts of past events or are they figurative "stories" meant to simply teach us a lesson?
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M
MamaZ
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Then you do not understand that it is God who justifies and not the law. For our justification is not of the Law but of the blood of Christ and His sanctifying Spirit within us..
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You're still not seeing it. We don't need to avoid the law. If the law is abscent then there is no sin. The law is not meant to make anything perfect but rather to reveal sin. Even with the new covenant given to us by Jesus, we still have the law.
New Covnenat: Jeremiah 31
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When did I ever say that the law justified us? Please don't misrepresent my words. I said that we are to obey the law of Christ because we love Him.
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Tu Es Petrus
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Proper Scripture interpretation includes taking into account the literary styles of the author in the times that they were written. That is what you are neglecting to do.
If that were true, there would not be hundreds of denominations with conflicting, contradictory doctrines.
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M
MamaZ
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You also said if we break the law we are under the penalty of the law..Did you not say this? We are not under the penalty of the law for no reason. For we are justifed in Christ not by doing or not doing the law..
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No, proper scripture interpretation includes "precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept, Line upon line, line upon line, Here a little, there a little. The authors wrote as they were so instructed by the Holy Spirit
Once again incorrect. The misuse of the bible, and the substitution of the doctrines of God for the doctrines of man are the reason why we have so many denominations. People want heaven but they want to get it their way.
Since the days of old, the churches were warned of such men. But compromise has given way to the truth resulting in apostacy. We are to study to show ourselves approved, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. We can't depend on what others tell us the bible is suppose to mean. We are to look to God and have Him guide us in truth, "That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
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Tu Es Petrus
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I never said not to take it seriously. I said not to take it "literally", unless you think some multi-headed dragon is gonna pop up out of the water..
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Is there no penalty for breaking the law? I think I see where you're misunderstanding me. I'm not saying that once you break the law, that's it. You're now under the penalty of the law and must die. I'm talking about people who willingly walk contray to the word of God. A true chrisitan is not know by name but by deed and action. We all fall but provision has been made in Christ that as along as we repent, we will be forgiven.
However if we blind ourselves to the truth just because it doesn't fit us, than we are indeed thus placed under the law. 22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
These are those who thought that they were true christians. Please hear what the Spirit is saying, for these are not my words but the words of the Lord from His Word. To constantly break the law and to place yourself under the law. Only when we repent of our sins are we than free from the curse of the law. We can say that we accept Christ all we want, but if our actions are contrary to that which He has taught us to do, than we are not His. We have a form of godliness but deny the power thereof.
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Tu Es Petrus
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Inspiriation does not work like that. Its not like Moses was a secretary taking dictation.
And if you think it is proper to read a 3000 year old document using a 21st century understanding of how history is written, then its no wonder that you totally misunderstand what the Bible is saying.
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As you quoted Stryder06 in "....The bible explains itself....."
Actually Stryder06 makes an interesting point... In a sense those fours snipped words are right. Because they also explain why there are, "hundreds of denominations with conflicting, contradictory doctrines".
In a general broad sense, the idea "the bible explains itself" is true. There's a set of scriptures pointing this out. That the lines and precepts within the bible do fit in a specific order with a message. That is also why there is a mass of error within the Christian world, because the lines and precepts are able to be put together incorrectly.
"Whom will he teach knowledge? And whom will he make to understand the message? Those just weaned from milk? Those just drawn from the breasts? 10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept, Line upon line, line upon line, Here a little, there a little." 11 For with stammering lips and another tongue He will speak to this people, 12 To whom He said, "This is the rest with which You may cause the weary to rest," And, "This is the refreshing"; Yet they would not hear. 13 But the word of the Lord was to them, "Precept upon precept, precept upon precept, Line upon line, line upon line, Here a little, there a little," That they might go and fall backward, and be broken And snared and caught.
It could be said the bible does explain its' message, only that it is not self-explainitory to the point where all people will hear it. And those that get it wrong put together a different message that causes people to fall, be broken, snared and caught.
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