YES or NO: Do The 10 Commandments Still Apply To Us Today? (2)

[Stryder06]

Yes we would. Adam did not have "the law". He had 'a law', but not "the law" given to Israel.
Adam's 'law' was "thou shalt not eat the fruit-ith". He broke this law and fell into sin because of it, resulting in his need for salvation.

Sin is the transgression of the law 1 John 3:4. This is universal. Adam disobeyed God's command to not eat of the fruit true, but if the law did not exist than what sin did Cain commit?

 

[Doveaman]

Sin is the transgression of the law 1 John 3:4. This is universal. Adam disobeyed God's command to not eat of the fruit true, but if the law did not exist than what sin did Cain commit?

Sin is the transgression of the GOD. This is universal.
Adam disobeyed GOD. Cain disobeyed GOD.
They both transgressed GOD. The transgression of GOD was their sin.
Sin causes death. Adam died. Therefore he sinned. But he had no "law".
Adam's death was not by transgressing "law". It was by transgressing GOD.
It is GOD who says "THOU SHALT NOT...". To do otherwise is to transgress GOD.
Satan is the author of SIN. Satan had no "law". What, then, did He transgress?
He transgressed GOD. And so do we.
Even animals transgress GOD. This is, perhaps, why they die, too.
Death is caused by the transgression of GOD, as Adam did.

 

[Stryder06]

Sin is the transgression of the GOD. This is universal.
Adam disobeyed GOD. Cain disobeyed GOD.
They both transgressed GOD. The transgression of GOD was their sin.
Sin causes death. Adam died. Therefore he sinned. But he had no "law".
Adam's death was not by transgressing "law". It was by transgressing GOD.
It is GOD who says "THOU SHALT NOT...". To do otherwise is to transgress GOD.
Satan is the author of SIN. Satan had no "law". What, then, did He transgress?
He transgressed GOD. And so do we.
Even animals transgress GOD.

Sorry (and once again, please do not think me to be rude) but this is wrong. Sin is the transgression of the law. In actuality we are saying the sme thing. To transgress against the Lord is to go against His law. If there is no standard to be held to, than how can one go against it? God set His law from eternity. It is what everything is governed by. Paul tells us that without the law there would be no sin.

This is the reason why the law is eternal and binding. If it could be so easily changed than Christ would not have needed to die. Instead God could have simply changed the law to accomodate man's fallen condition. I'm sure we both will agree that the bible is the Word of God. Thus we can know that it is God that is informing us of the importance of the law. If nothing else you can look to Christ. He himself kept the sabbath while He was on earth. (and please don't say it was because He was a jew. He was God too, and as a jew, he didn't do alot of the things that the jews did at that time)

 

[SGM4HIM]

law means torah check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torah 1st sentence mentions learning or instruction.


Genesis 26:5 ..because Abraham obeyed Me and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes and My laws."

This was pre Sinai.

 

[Doveaman]

law means torah check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torah 1st sentence mentions learning or instruction.


Genesis 26:5 ..because Abraham obeyed Me and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes and My laws."

This was pre Sinai.

There are also old laws and new laws. Check (Heb.7:11,12,18,19,22).

This is post Sinai.

 

[visionary]

You know what is amazing is that 50 years ago, you would not hear of such talk.... never in any sunday keeping church.. but alas we are in the end days when lawlessness is considered righteous... they are tearing away at the very foundation upon which God has built a righteous society.

 

[MamaZ]

Col 2:13 And you, being dead in the deviations and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all the deviations,
Col 2:14 blotting out the handwriting in the ordinances against us, which was contrary to us, even He has taken it out of the midst, nailing it to the cross;

As I have tried to explain the law of Moses was put there not as a friend but as a decree against Isreal..

 

[visionary]

Just as the law of our land is for the peace, security, justice, and a safe society, so is the law of God for all of HIs universe. Earth is the only planet left where anyone has contention over the law of God... aka the lawless one has been thrown out of heaven and woe to the people of earth.

 

[MamaZ]

Just as the law of our land is for the peace, security, justice, and a safe society, so is the law of God for all of HIs universe. Earth is the only planet left where anyone has contention over the law of God... aka the lawless one has been thrown out of heaven and woe to the people of earth.

oh brother.. I dont have contention over the Law of Moses.. For the law of Moses was set as a decree against the people..

 

[Stryder06]

oh brother.. I dont have contention over the Law of Moses.. For the law of Moses was set as a decree against the people..

Than please explain to me what sin did Cain commit, and the antideluvians(sp?) What wickedness were they accountable for? And the people of Sodom and Gomorah, what was their crime?

 

[MamaZ]

Than please explain to me what sin did Cain commit, and the antideluvians(sp?) What wickedness were they accountable for? And the people of Sodom and Gomorah, what was their crime?

Cain committed the very sin of murder. But it was not the law that screamed out at God it was the blood of Abel that did.. For life is in the blood. We can post the 10 commandments every where but not one of them will save a man.., They show man their sin.. All men are condemed with the law..
Gen 4:9 And Jehovah said to Cain, Where is your brother Abel? And he said, I do not know. Am I my brother's keeper?
Gen 4:10 And He said, What have you done? The voice of the blood of your brother cries to Me from the ground.

There is not one among us that can say they have lived the law. For all have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God.. The law was a decree against men for all their wrong doing..

 

[PROPHECYKID]

Sin is the transgression of the GOD. This is universal.
Adam disobeyed GOD. Cain disobeyed GOD.
They both transgressed GOD. The transgression of GOD was their sin.
Sin causes death. Adam died. Therefore he sinned. But he had no "law".
Adam's death was not by transgressing "law". It was by transgressing GOD.
It is GOD who says "THOU SHALT NOT...". To do otherwise is to transgress GOD.
Satan is the author of SIN. Satan had no "law". What, then, did He transgress?
He transgressed GOD. And so do we.
Even animals transgress GOD. This is, perhaps, why they die, too.
Death is caused by the transgression of GOD, as Adam did.

In order to support your belief, you take a scripture from the bible and change it. The bible says that sin in the transgression of the law. Face it. That is what the text says. God gave Adam a law. One command. One law. Adam disobeyed. You are not making sense with your analogy. Here is why.

Rom 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Adam could not have sinned if he was in violation of a law. You only see law as the 10 commandments. But this principle applies to any law. But of course the carnally minded man wont want anything to do with the law. It goes against his own reasoning.

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

 

[Stryder06]

Cain committed the very sin of murder. But it was not the law that screamed out at God it was the blood of Abel that did.. For life is in the blood. We can post the 10 commandments every where but not one of them will save a man.., They show man their sin.. All men are condemed with the law..
Gen 4:9 And Jehovah said to Cain, Where is your brother Abel? And he said, I do not know. Am I my brother's keeper?
Gen 4:10 And He said, What have you done? The voice of the blood of your brother cries to Me from the ground.

There is not one among us that can say they have lived the law. For all have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God.. The law was a decree against men for all their wrong doing..

You're still missing the point. The truth indeed is that Cain did commit murder. But the law had not been given than had it? This is what we are trying to say. The law is eternal. If the law had not existed in Cain's time than there would have been no law for him to break. The law is never changing, were it able to be changed than Christ need not have died. True that salvation does not come from the law but by grace. This does not however allow us to break the law. That is the point. We are not allowed to break the law simply because we are under grace.

 

[PROPHECYKID]

Cain committed the very sin of murder. But it was not the law that screamed out at God it was the blood of Abel that did..

The law is not a living thing. It cannot scream out to God. Neither can the blood of Abel scream out to God. It is figurative. You cannot use it in such a literal way. But still lets examine your logic. You say that it was not the law that screamed out it was Abel's blood. The scripture said so. You use that to imply that it was not because of the law that Cain was charged, or held accountable, but it was because of the presence of blood. So if Cain stole all of Abel's sheep there would be nothing wrong with that. If Cain got married to Eve and lied to Adam there would be nothing wrong with that. God would not notice it. No blood was shed.

Whats about the people of Sodom and Gomorrah. Was there a written law of right and wrong for them? No there wasn't. But the bible says:

Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

How can this entire nation be destroyed and held accountable for their many sins if they had no knowledge of sin. But wait. They did have a knowledge of sin. Not through a written law but the law in their minds. They knew adultery was wrong but they didnt care. And they were destroyed for a lack of obedience to the law that they knew.

For life is in the blood. We can post the 10 commandments every where but not one of them will save a man.., They show man their sin.. All men are condemed with the law..
Gen 4:9 And Jehovah said to Cain, Where is your brother Abel? And he said, I do not know. Am I my brother's keeper?
Gen 4:10 And He said, What have you done? The voice of the blood of your brother cries to Me from the ground.

The law serves to condemn. It does but that is not its purpose. Its purpose is to let us have the knowledge of sin. You dont believe that Abel was literally crying to God from the ground right?

There is not one among us that can say they have lived the law. For all have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God.. The law was a decree against men for all their wrong doing..

Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Do you have love? Yes or no. Do you fulfill the law?

 

[Doveaman]

Sorry (and once again, please do not think me to be rude) but this is wrong. Sin is the transgression of the law. In actuality we are saying the sme thing. To transgress against the Lord is to go against His law.

To transgress against the LORD is to go against the LORD.

If there is no standard to be held to, than how can one go against it?

Christ Jesus is that standard; the LIVING WORD that proceeded from the “MOUTH” of GOD is that standard.

Our standard is not a standard of ‘stone’, but a standard of flesh; the embodiment of God; the Man Christ Jesus. He and He alone is our standard.

We do not obey words that were written on stones. We obey the words that proceeds from His very MOUTH; His own words; word for word; “precept upon precept”; “line upon line”; “here a little, there a little”; nothing more, nothing less. This is our standard; His own words.

It is His own words and His words alone proceeding from His own mouth and His mouth alone that we are to live by – Nothing else. This alone is our standard.

"Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God" (Matt 4:4).

And that “word” is Christ Himself. Christ Jesus is that WORD that proceeds from the MOUTH of God.

Stones are for the stone-hearted. Christ Jesus is for the flesh-hearted.

God set His law from eternity. It is what everything is governed by.

"All things were created by him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together" (Col 1:16-17).

It is the LIVING WORD that holds all things together. And it is the LIVING WORD that holds us together. It is by the LIVING WORD we live and have our very being. Words on stones cannot do this.

Paul tells us that without the law there would be no sin.This is the reason why the law is eternal and binding.

Paul never said that.

Paul said:

“Indeed I would not have known what sin was except through the law….” (Rom 7:7).

Sin “was”, but Paul did not KNOW it “was”. He came to know it “was” when the law was given, but the sin itself already “was”.

"Once I was alive apart from law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death" (Rom 7:7-10).

Paul also became AWARE of his own condemnation for the same sin that already “was”, and like the sin that already “was” his condemnation already “was” also, but he was not aware that it ”was” until the law was given. The law was given to REVEAL Paul’s sin and condemnation that already “was”.

If it could be so easily changed than Christ would not have needed to die. Instead God could have simply changed the law to accomodate man's fallen condition.

Man CANNOT be redeemed from his “fallen condition” by the change of law. Man is redeemed from his “fallen condition” by the change of Man. A NEW man is needed, the Man Christ Jesus. Only in Christ are we redeemable; our redemption lies within HIM. Only in Christ are we redeemed.

"If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood (for on the basis of it the law was given to the people), why was there still need for another priest to come…For when there is a change of the priesthood, there must also be a change of the law…The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless (for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God…Jesus has become the guarantee of a better covenant" (Heb 7:11-22).

I'm sure we both will agree that the bible is the Word of God. Thus we can know that it is God that is informing us of the importance of the law. If nothing else you can look to Christ. He himself kept the sabbath while He was on earth. (and please don't say it was because He was a jew. He was God too, and as a jew, he didn't do alot of the things that the jews did at that time)

"But when the time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under law, to redeem those under law" (Gal 4:4-5).

Not only was Jesus a Jew, but He Himself was also under that very law. He Himself being UNDER that law was also BOUND to keep that law until the day of redemption; the day He died for our redemption.

His death not only redeemed us from the sins committed under the law, but also redeemed us from the very law it self. We are free from the law in EVERY sense. So let us not bind ourselves to it, because Christ has delivered us from its bindings so that we may be BOUND to HIM. For no man can serve two MASTERS.

"He forgave us all our sins, having canceled the written code (The law), with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross" (Col 2:13-14).

And "He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant- — not of the letter (The law) but of the Spirit (Christ); for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone (Ten Commandments), came with glory…will not the ministry of the Spirit (Christ) be even more glorious? If the ministry that condemns men (The law) is glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness (Christ)…And if what was fading away (The law) came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts" (Christ)! (2 Cor 3:6-11).

The law, even though glorious, brought death and condemnation, and it’s glory has faded away in the light of the glory of Christ.

To God and to God alone be the GLORY.

 

[Doveaman]

In order to support your belief, you take a scripture from the bible and change it.

I changed NOTHING.

The bible says that sin in the transgression of the law. Face it. That is what the text says. God gave Adam a law. One command. One law. Adam disobeyed.

Yes, “ONE command”, “ONE law”; Not TEN. He had no TEN commandments. He had only ONE.

Perhaps we, too, only have ONE; “THOU SHALT LOVE ALL…”

“For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love” (Gal 5:6).

You are not making sense with your analogy. Here is why.
Rom 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

For where there is no law, we are not CONSIDERED transgressors (We are justified), because we are not under that law to transgress it. We are under GRACE. Under GRACE there is no law to transgress. Therefore, "there is no transgression", because there is "no law".

“It was not through law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith. For if those who live by law are heirs, faith has no value and the promise is worthless, because law brings wrath” (Rom 4:13-15

God's promise to us is not based on our obedience to law. If it was we are all DOOMED, “because law brings wrath”; the promise is based on our obedience to Christ Jesus through faith. We live by the words that proceed from His mouth, word for word, and not from words that were written on stones.

Adam could not have sinned if he was in violation of a law. You only see law as the 10 commandments. But this principle applies to any law.

Interestingly, I was thinking that it was ‘you’ who “only see law as the 10 commandments”, because in my view it is not. The “10 commandments” never was, never is, and never will be the “only” law.

The “10 commandments” is the “letter” of the law. Christ Jesus is the SPIRIT of the law. He is the LAW. We live by HIM and HIM alone; His words, word for word. We live by the words of Christ who is the SPIRIT of the law, and not by the words of the letter that were written on stones.

For "He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant- — not of the letter (The law) but of the Spirit (Christ); for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone (Ten Commandments), came with glory…will not the ministry of the Spirit (Christ) be even more glorious? If the ministry that condemns men (Ten Commandments) is glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness (Christ)…And if what was fading away (Ten Commandments) came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts (Christ)!" (2 Cor 3:6-11).

But of course the carnally minded man wont want anything to do with the law. It goes against his own reasoning.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

On this I can agree.

But, know this:

“The fruit of THE SPIRIT is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is NO LAW” (Gal 5:22-23).

The carnally minded man “wont want anything to do with” this either.

 

[Stryder06]

To transgress against the LORD is to go against the LORD.

Christ Jesus is that standard; the LIVING WORD that proceeded from the “MOUTH” of GOD is that standard.

Our standard is not a standard of ‘stone’, but a standard of flesh; the embodiment of God; the Man Christ Jesus. He and He alone is our standard.

We do not obey words that were written on stones. We obey the words that proceeds from His very MOUTH; His own words; word for word; “precept upon precept”; “line upon line”; “here a little, there a little” and nothing more. This is our standard; His own words.

It is His own words and His words alone proceeding from His own mouth and His mouth alone that we are to live by – Nothing else. This alone is our standard.

"Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God" (Matt 4:4).

And that “word” is Christ Himself. Christ Jesus is that WORD that proceeds from the MOUTH of God.

Stones are for the stone-hearted. Christ Jesus is for the flesh-hearted.

"All things were created by him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together" (Col 1:16-17).

It is the LIVING WORD that holds all things together. And it is the LIVING WORD that holds us together. It is by the LIVING WORD we live and have our very being. Words on stones cannot do this.

Paul never said that.

Paul said:

“Indeed I would not have known what sin was except through the law….” (Rom 7:7).

Sin “was”, but Paul did not KNOW it “was”. He came to know it “was” when the law was given, but the sin itself already “was”.

"Once I was alive apart from law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death" (Rom 7:7-10).

Paul also became AWARE of his own condemnation for the same sin that already “was”, and like the sin that already “was” his condemnation already “was” also, but he was not aware that it ”was” until the law was given. The law was given to REVEAL Paul’s sin and condemnation that already “was”.

Man CANNOT be redeemed from his “fallen condition” by the change of law. Man is redeemed from his “fallen condition” by the changed of Man. A NEW man is needed, the Man Christ Jesus. Only Christ is redeemable, and our redemption lies within HIM. Only in Christ are we redeemed.

"If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood (for on the basis of it the law was given to the people), why was there still need for another priest to come…For when there is a change of the priesthood, there must also be a change of the law…The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless (for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God…Jesus has become the guarantee of a better covenant" (Heb 7:11-22).

"But when the time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under law, to redeem those under law" (Gal 4:4-5).

Not only was Jesus a Jew, but He Himself was also under that very law. He Himself being UNDER that law was also BOUND to keep that law until the day of redemption; the day He died for our redemption.

His death not only redeemed us from the sins committed under the law, but also redeemed us from the very law it self. We are free from the law in EVERY sense. So let us not bind ourselves to it, because Christ has delivered us from its bindings so that we may be BOUND to HIM. For no man can serve two MASTERS.

"He forgave us all our sins, having canceled the written code (The law), with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross" (Col 2:13-14).

And "He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant- — not of the letter (The law) but of the Spirit (Christ); for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone (Ten Commandments), came with glory…will not the ministry of the Spirit (Christ) be even more glorious? If the ministry that condemns men (The law) is glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness (Christ)…And if what was fading away (The law) came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts" (Christ)! (2 Cor 3:6-11).

The law, even though glorious, brought death and condemnation, and it’s glory has faded away in the light of the glory of Christ.

To God and to God alone be the GLORY.

I can pretty much agree with just about everything you said. However you are still missing the point. Christ indeed is our standard, so if Christ tells us to do something should we not do it?

And about Paul, we'd be arguing over semantics. The law reveals sin. No law means no way to reveal sin, thus no sin. Romans 4:15 says "Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression."

Try to not miss the point. Christ is indeed what we are sustained by. His Word is what we live by, if you can't agree with that than you ought not read the bible. You will in no wise break any of the other nine commandments. I can promise that if we were saying that it was lawful to worship other gods you'd bring out the first commandment which says that we are not to.

Because the word "sabbath" is used in the fourth commandment, do not assume that it is the same as the other ceremonial sabbaths. The sabbath existed before sin, we were reminded of it because of sin, and we will continue to keep it after sin. We say it's important because God says it's important. We all agree that there is a specific day that we ought to keep holy unto God. The bible says that day is saturday, while man has changed it to sunday. Show us biblically where the Lord says that sunday is the new holy day and I promise you i'll give no further arguement.

 

[JimfromOhio]

That collection was to be done until Paul arrived. It was to keep him from having to go see everyone to get the money he needed for his trip. Once again, a collection of money does not a holy day make.


No arguement here.

The sabbath wasn't a weekly tradition. The fourth commandment says to Remember, thus that must mean that at some point in time they had already been taught.


The sabbath, was sanctified by God, thus only God would have the right to un-sanctify it. Pauls says for them to not judge because during that time, not everyone had the truth about the sabbath and new moon feasts and what not. He does not however make any statement in regards to not keeping the seventh day sabbath, but sunday, the first work day.


Once again, no arguement here. However the seventh day sabbath of the 4th commandment was not a ceremonial sabbath.
Between Jehovah and His people.


Once again gathering together does not a holy day make. I would think it safe to assume that having just lost Christ and than fearing for their lives, it would not have been uncommon for them to have spent alot of their time together. And those scriptures where Christ meet with the disciples says nothing about it being the first day of the week. Do you think it possible that the reason why Christ rose on sunday was out of respect for the sabbath?

The bible specifically says to keep the sabbath day holy. Where does that ever change?

Legalism will say "specific" while Grace will say "from the heart". We have to be careful when we use the word "holiness" that it should NOT be used for legalism. God's desire that we should reflect His own holiness and goodness (not our own flesh's efforts following specific legalism laws). Holiness is the balance between our nature and the law of God as expressed in Jesus Christ within us. True "sanctification" is only through the Holy Spirit who produce the evidence of our own true spiritual condition, humility and intimacy with God that our flesh CANNOT DO.

Legalism is man's own concept of obedience makes a person feel very safe that if its part of his or her life, that he/she will impose on others (as you are doing in your posts). If they are not following his/her (i.e. YOUR) formula of legalistic beliefs, they are not being obedient according to his/her (i.e. YOUR) understanding of the Scriptures.

 

[Stryder06]

Legalism will say "specific" while Grace will say "from the heart". We have to be careful when we use the word "holiness" that it should NOT be used for legalism. God's desire that we should reflect His own holiness and goodness (not our own flesh's efforts following specific legalism laws). Holiness is the balance between our nature and the law of God as expressed in Jesus Christ within us. True "sanctification" is only through the Holy Spirit who produce the evidence of our own true spiritual condition, humility and intimacy with God that our flesh CANNOT DO.

Legalism is man's own concept of obedience makes a person feel very safe that if its part of his or her life, that he/she will impose on others (as you are doing in your posts). If they are not following his/her (i.e. YOUR) formula of legalistic beliefs, they are not being obedient according to his/her (i.e. YOUR) understanding of the Scriptures.

I so believe that you are misrepresenting the idea that I am trying to convey in my posts. Your response does bring a couple of questions to mind however. And please believe that in I ask these in all sincerity and brotherly love.

Is God legalistically holy or from the heart holy?
If by worshiping on the sabbath I am being legalistic, am I also being legalistic in my adherence to the other nine commandments?

I think that I am being misunderstood because my posts are not being read in their entierty. So again I will try to clarify.

I do not believe nor agree with the notion that anyone...ANYONE, can be saved by following the law. Salvation comes through faith in Christ alone, and I believe this with all of my heart. But I also believe when Jesus says that if we love Him we will keep His commandments. It is better to obey than to sacrifice. When Christ asks something of us we, as His children, are obligated to obey that command. To love our brother and God, this is spelled out in the original ten commandments.

I simply cannot and will not agree upon a spurious man made sabbath day taken the place of the holy sabbath day instituted by God. That is all I am saying. There is no biblical foundation for worshiping on the first day of the week. How am I being legalistic by believing that. Wouldn't that mean that those who believe that to worship on sunday are being legalistic too?

God's government is run by laws, just like the governments of man. To follow the heart of the law is to follow the law in truth, with all your heart. It does not mean to replace the law with your own version. You obey the law because you love God and desire to walk pleasing before Him, and you teach your brothers to do the same. Christ and the pharasiees are our example of this. Christ showed how every man ought to keep the law (obey God), while the religious leaders made the law a burden and keep it in such a way that they would receive the praises of man for being so "pious".

The law reveals sin. Christ brings life. We obey the commandments to the best of our ability relying on Christ to make up the gap. It's not about being legalistic, but about being obedient.

 

[JimfromOhio]

I so believe that you are misrepresenting the idea that I am trying to convey in my posts. Your response does bring a couple of questions to mind however. And please believe that in I ask these in all sincerity and brotherly love.

Is God legalistically holy or from the heart holy?
If by worshiping on the sabbath I am being legalistic, am I also being legalistic in my adherence to the other nine commandments?

I think that I am being misunderstood because my posts are not being read in their entierty. So again I will try to clarify.

I do not believe nor agree with the notion that anyone...ANYONE, can be saved by following the law. Salvation comes through faith in Christ alone, and I believe this with all of my heart. But I also believe when Jesus says that if we love Him we will keep His commandments. It is better to obey than to sacrifice. When Christ asks something of us we, as His children, are obligated to obey that command. To love our brother and God, this is spelled out in the original ten commandments.

I simply cannot and will not agree upon a spurious man made sabbath day taken the place of the holy sabbath day instituted by God. That is all I am saying. There is no biblical foundation for worshiping on the first day of the week. How am I being legalistic by believing that. Wouldn't that mean that those who believe that to worship on sunday are being legalistic too?

God's government is run by laws, just like the governments of man. To follow the heart of the law is to follow the law in truth, with all your heart. It does not mean to replace the law with your own version. You obey the law because you love God and desire to walk pleasing before Him, and you teach your brothers to do the same. Christ and the pharasiees are our example of this. Christ showed how every man ought to keep the law (obey God), while the religious leaders made the law a burden and keep it in such a way that they would receive the praises of man for being so "pious".

The law reveals sin. Christ brings life. We obey the commandments to the best of our ability relying on Christ to make up the gap. It's not about being legalistic, but about being obedient.

Sin is any violation, any violation of the character or law of God, the moral character or the law of God. Summing it up, 1st John 3:4. 1st John 3:4 says: "Sin is the transgression of the law. Sin is the transgression of the law." What is sin and what is not sin will be very tricky which usually defined by various denominations based on their own interpretations. We should all take a long hard look at what things we consider to be important from God's perspective rather than man's perspective. Every person must decide whether they will us their liberty to decide on their doctrinal beliefs. When we argue and disagree, we will know what kind of a Christian others are and what kind of a heart they have. We always argue over things that we love, or that we disagree.

We all can claim to be a Christian, and we all believe that the root of the matter is in us and the seed of God is in our hearts. There are those Christians who judge others based on Law. There are those Christians who judge others based on grace. There are those Christians who judge others based on their fruits.

Under grace, understanding sin is not about obeying the laws but rather obeying Christ. This is depends on a Christian's relationship with Christ. A believer is hyper-sensitive to sin and having come to Jesus Christ, a Christian senses are awakened to the reality of sin. When a Christian who is saved by the conviction of the Holy Spirit, this Christian is living in a new Creature with holy conscience rather than sinful conscience. If a Christian don't feel the conviction and didn't have the motivation to change from "within", then we should be concerned whether we are truly saved or not. "If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit." The condition of the heart determines how receptive a person is to God's commandments. If we take our doctrines into our hearts where they belong, they can cause upheavals of emotion and sleepless nights. This is far better than toying with academic ideas that never touch life. The Bible illumines the dark corners of our own hearts and minds by exposing our OWN sin but at the same time reveals the way of righteousness. Hebrews 4:12For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

Only God can see a person's heart. God wants our hearts more than He wants us to follow rules. If we give our hearts to God, then we will know what is sinful and what is not sinful. One of the greatest examples I have learn is from Lot's wife. Lot's wife died when she looked back. Looking back means you rely on flesh's desires more than God's commands and desires. A person's heart is always found running in the direction of his/her desires. The heart that desires often leads a person towards the wrong direction. Those who believed that God will not allow Christians to suffer are in big trouble and probably won't last.

The Holy Spirit is within us which is the same as God is in us as we describe to others that we have Jesus in our hearts. The Spirit is our intercessor, our personal indwelling intercessor interceding according to the will of God. The Father will always hear and always answer the intercessory prayer of the Spirit because the Spirit always prays according to God's will and God always does His will.

Someone has said "Christianity without discipleship is always Christianity without Christ." I am learning every day to be careful how we read and need to look from doctrinal perspective rather than our own satisfaction doctrinally. As Christian believers (assuming each of us are a believer), the Holy Spirit will lead each of us to the truth.