YES or NO: Do The 10 Commandments Still Apply To Us Today? (2)

[Stryder06]

Sin is any violation, any violation of the character or law of God, the moral character or the law of God. Summing it up, 1st John 3:4. 1st John 3:4 says: "Sin is the transgression of the law. Sin is the transgression of the law." What is sin and what is not sin will be very tricky which usually defined by various denominations based on their own interpretations. We should all take a long hard look at what things we consider to be important from God's perspective rather than man's perspective. Every person must decide whether they will us their liberty to decide on their doctrinal beliefs. When we argue and disagree, we will know what kind of a Christian others are and what kind of a heart they have. We always argue over things that we love, or that we disagree.

We all can claim to be a Christian, and we all believe that the root of the matter is in us and the seed of God is in our hearts. There are those Christians who judge others based on Law. There are those Christians who judge others based on grace. There are those Christians who judge others based on their fruits.

Under grace, understanding sin is not about obeying the laws but rather obeying Christ. This is depends on a Christian's relationship with Christ. A believer is hyper-sensitive to sin and having come to Jesus Christ, a Christian senses are awakened to the reality of sin. When a Christian who is saved by the conviction of the Holy Spirit, this Christian is living in a new Creature with holy conscience rather than sinful conscience. If a Christian don't feel the conviction and didn't have the motivation to change from "within", then we should be concerned whether we are truly saved or not. "If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit." The condition of the heart determines how receptive a person is to God's commandments. If we take our doctrines into our hearts where they belong, they can cause upheavals of emotion and sleepless nights. This is far better than toying with academic ideas that never touch life. The Bible illumines the dark corners of our own hearts and minds by exposing our OWN sin but at the same time reveals the way of righteousness. Hebrews 4:12For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

Only God can see a person's heart. God wants our hearts more than He wants us to follow rules. If we give our hearts to God, then we will know what is sinful and what is not sinful. One of the greatest examples I have learn is from Lot's wife. Lot's wife died when she looked back. Looking back means you rely on flesh's desires more than God's commands and desires. A person's heart is always found running in the direction of his/her desires. The heart that desires often leads a person towards the wrong direction. Those who believed that God will not allow Christians to suffer are in big trouble and probably won't last.

The Holy Spirit is within us which is the same as God is in us as we describe to others that we have Jesus in our hearts. The Spirit is our intercessor, our personal indwelling intercessor interceding according to the will of God. The Father will always hear and always answer the intercessory prayer of the Spirit because the Spirit always prays according to God's will and God always does His will.

Someone has said "Christianity without discipleship is always Christianity without Christ." I am learning every day to be careful how we read and need to look from doctrinal perspective rather than our own satisfaction doctrinally. As Christian believers (assuming each of us are a believer), the Holy Spirit will lead each of us to the truth.

Though I still believe that you don't really understand our stand on the law, I do agree with your statement that those who love Christ will be lead into all truth by the Spirit. Course this is given that they desire to be lead into that truth and are actively seeking it out.

 

[MamaZ]

You're still missing the point. The truth indeed is that Cain did commit murder. But the law had not been given than had it? This is what we are trying to say. The law is eternal. If the law had not existed in Cain's time than there would have been no law for him to break. The law is never changing, were it able to be changed than Christ need not have died. True that salvation does not come from the law but by grace. This does not however allow us to break the law. That is the point. We are not allowed to break the law simply because we are under grace.

God causes us to walk His way when we are born of His Spirit. We are dead to the law. The law has been nailed to the cross. We are no longer having to look at the law and try to obey it. For it is now Christ in us and not the Law. We move and have our being in Him and not in the law of Moses. The law was fulfilled and is passing away.

 

[visionary]

God causes us to walk His way when we are born of His Spirit. We are dead to the law. The law has been nailed to the cross. We are no longer having to look at the law and try to obey it. For it is now Christ in us and not the Law. We move and have our being in Him and not in the law of Moses. The law was fulfilled and is passing away.

Our Lord did always look to the law for they were His to defend. He showed how the Holy Spirit will light up/enlarge its meaning of interpretation of the law
by giving the lust vs the letter of the law on adultery... and now you say.. do not do as the Lord did... So you say do not have the Holy Spirit light up and enlarge the meaning of how to walk in spirit and in truth?

 

[Doveaman]

I can pretty much agree with just about everything you said. However you are still missing the point. Christ indeed is our standard, so if Christ tells us to do something should we not do it?

Always!

And about Paul, we'd be arguing over semantics. The law reveals sin. No law means no way to reveal sin, thus no sin. Romans 4:15 says "Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression."[FONT=&quot]

Sin not revealed is still sin. It is just not revealed. But, it is still sin. Sin does not have to be revealed to be sin. It only has to be committed.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

Try to not miss the point. Christ is indeed what we are sustained by. His Word is what we live by, if you can't agree with that than you ought not read the bible. You will in no wise break any of the other nine commandments.

There is no such thing as “other nine”. This assumes that there is ten.

I can promise that if we were saying that it was lawful to worship other gods you'd bring out the first commandment which says that we are not to.

Yes, but this first one: “You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind” (Matt 22:37).

In this command there is no place for “other gods”[FONT=&quot].
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Because the word "sabbath" is used in the fourth commandment, do not assume that it is the same as the other ceremonial sabbaths. The sabbath existed before sin, we were reminded of it because of sin, and we will continue to keep it after sin.

The Sabbath is to be kept. But it’s not the Sabbath man observes. It is the Sabbath God Himself observes.

We say it's important because God says it's important. We all agree that there is a specific day that we ought to keep holy unto God.

There is no such day.

The bible says that day is saturday, while man has changed it to sunday. Show us biblically where the Lord says that sunday is the new holy day and I promise you i'll give no further arguement.

Sunday is not holy. Neither is Saturday holy. There is no day that is holy. Only God is holy.

 

[Stryder06]

There is no such thing as “other nine”. This assumes that there is ten.

So there aren't 10 commandments?

Yes, but this first one: “You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind” (Matt 22:37).

In this command there is no place for “other gods”[FONT=&quot]. [/FONT]

This command is the sum total of the other three. I don't see how you don't agree with that.

The Sabbath is to be kept. But it’s not the Sabbath man observes. It is the Sabbath God Himself observes.

The sabbath that God observes is the seventh day sabbath. This is the day that man is commanded to keep holy.

Sunday is not holy. Neither is Saturday holy. There is no day that is holy. Only God is holy.

Please don't think me rude for asking this but have you actually read the 10 commandments? How about Genesis where God rested and blessed the seventh day. Saturday is indeed a holy day. I'm not saying it because that is the day that I worship on, I'm saying that because that is what the bible says.

 

[Tu Es Petrus]

.....Please don't think me rude for asking this but have you actually read the 10 commandments? How about Genesis where God rested and blessed the seventh day. Saturday is indeed a holy day. I'm not saying it because that is the day that I worship on, I'm saying that because that is what the bible says.

That only works if you take the 7-day creation account literally, which no one should. Ony the most extremist Fundies take the "seven days" in the creation account literally, as if Genesis is some sort of scientific document. Those days are just symbolic representations of great epochs in time.

Traditionally, it was Moses - or someone around that time - who wrote the first five books of the OT. Considering the fact that they were under the Mosaic Law, of COURSE they wrote it in terms of "seven days". What else would you expect?

But the fact is, there WAS NO "seventh" day over the billions of years that the earth was formed. So your whole argument is based on a non-existant event.

 

[Stryder06]

That only works if you take the 7-day creation account literally, which no one should. Ony the most extremist Fundies take the "seven days" in the creation account literally, as if Genesis is some sort of scientific document. Those days are just symbolic representations of great epochs in time.

Traditionally, it was Moses - or someone around that time - who wrote the first five books of the OT. Considering the fact that they were under the Mosaic Law, of COURSE they wrote it in terms of "seven days". What else would you expect?

But the fact is, there WAS NO "seventh" day over the billions of years that the earth was formed. So your whole argument is based on a non-existant event.

And the Lord said:

Remember the sabbath day to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labor and do all thy work. But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God. In it thou shalt not do any work. Thou nor thy son nor thy daughter, nor thy man servant, nor thy maid servant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates. For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth. The sea and all that in them is. And rested the seventh day, wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day and hallowed it.

The Lord God is not mocked. He said seven days, how do you say it was not done in seven days? Is there anything to great for our God to do? What power and knowledge do you have that surpasses that of our God? This is why following the doctrines of man is so dangerous.You never did answer any of my other questions, you just said "whatever".

Was the flood figurative too?
How about the Exodus account?
What about Samson?
Did Esther really save her people?
Daniel and the lion's den and the three hebrew boys, what about them?

What "no one should" do is tell God that He didn't do something that He said He did.
Isaiah

8 “ For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways My ways,” says the LORD.
9 “ For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are My ways higher than your ways,
And My thoughts than your thoughts.

Extreme fundies? Science as man sees it proclaims that there is no God. That all of this is happenstance. You can take the word of man and base your beliefs off of that if you like, but I will follow after God and what the bible says. My arguements are not based off of events that never happened. How can one claim to hold the bible as the Word of God, and than outrightly say that they do not hold all of it's claims to be true. Just how exactly than was the world created? Was Noah on the ark 40 days and nights or for billions of years? Where does the madness end.

Be careful who you take your teachings from.
Isaiah

20 To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

The word of God is just that. He is not man that He should lie. He said 7 days, where is your proof that it is anything more? Simply because of a talking serpent? How naive is that? The wonderous works of our Lord and Saviour and the power displayed by Him all thourough out the bible attests to the fact that things are not how we know them to be in this present day.

The serpent spoke because it was posessed by the devil. And before you rant on how is it possible for satan to possess an animal, remeber that the demon legion was cast into the herd of swine (of course unless that too was simply a figurative story). Do you see how dangerous this logic of yours is. Because one cannot understand that automatically qualifies it as not being litteral?

Thy word is a light unto my feet and a lamp unto my pathway. God's word is all that we need. If we needed more He would have given us more. Do not look to men but to God for understanding of His word. Lest you be lead astray by every wind of doctrine.

Jude 7: For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

False teachings have been in our church far too long, and the more we tolerate it the more time we allow the cancer to spread. Look to God and Him alone.

 

[Doveaman]

So there aren't 10 commandments?

No, there are not. There are more that ten; there are ONE.

This command is the sum total of the other three. I don't see how you don't agree with that.

Then why do we need the “other three”?

The sabbath that God observes is the seventh day sabbath. This is the day that man is commanded to keep holy.

Man is commanded to “keep” nothing “holy”. Man can “keep’ nothing holy. Only God can keep things holy.

God’s Sabbath is the Sabbath God Himself observed on the seventh day of creation week. He observed no other Sabbath after that. Any other Sabbath after that is ours, not His.

Please don't think me rude for asking this but have you actually read the 10 commandments?

There are no “10 commandments”. There are only ONE.

How about Genesis where God rested and blessed the seventh day. Saturday is indeed a holy day. I'm not saying it because that is the day that I worship on, I'm saying that because that is what the bible says.

The bible does not say that. You did. And God does not REST. REST is His gift to man. He does not need it. He is always WORKING, and He never stops WORKING.

“My Father has been working until now, and I have been working” (John 5:17).

 

[MamaZ]

Our Lord did always look to the law for they were His to defend. He showed how the Holy Spirit will light up/enlarge its meaning of interpretation of the law
by giving the lust vs the letter of the law on adultery... and now you say.. do not do as the Lord did... So you say do not have the Holy Spirit light up and enlarge the meaning of how to walk in spirit and in truth?

The Lord was here to fulfill the law.. It has been completely fulfilled by Christ. He does not light up the law. He lives in us. It is no longer us trying to live by a law. It is Christ at work in Us conforming us to His Image. When men try to conform themseves to Christ they are walking according to the flesh. It is God who causes us to walk in His statutes.. Not us and our preformance of the law.

 

[visionary]

The Lord was here to fulfill the law.. It has been completely fulfilled by Christ. He does not light up the law. He lives in us. It is no longer us trying to live by a law. It is Christ at work in Us conforming us to His Image. When men try to conform themseves to Christ they are walking according to the flesh. It is God who causes us to walk in His statutes.. Not us and our preformance of the law.

Where do you get the idea that the other laws, not dealing with the lamb sacrifices, the priesthood, and the temple services in which Christ did fulfill have been fulfilled.. While I agree with Christ fulfilling.. there are more laws that are not yet fulfilled... they are a shadow of things to come and are the body of Christ. And there are laws that are royal eternal righteous, and pure which will be for all eternity. .. We can not perform the law... we can be law abiding citizens of His kingdom.. for HE would not ask of us anything He did not give us the grace and power to do.

 

[Stryder06]

No, there are not. There are more that ten; there are ONE.
Then why do we need the “other three”?
Man is commanded to “keep” nothing “holy”. Man can “keep’ nothing holy. Only God can.

God’s Sabbath is the Sabbath God Himself observed on the seventh day of creation week. He observed no other Sabbath after that. Any other Sabbath after that is ours, not His.

There are no “10 commandments”. There are only ONE.

The bible does not say that. You did. And God does not REST. REST is His gift to man. He does not need it. He is always WORKING, and He never stops WORKING.

“My Father has been working until now, and I have been working” (John 5:17).

Ok, Doveman, please read Genesis 1. In that you will see that the Lord rested from His work of creation. Also the 4th commandment in exodus 20: 8-11 we are told to keep the sabbath day holy.

Have you read the OT? Honestly I'm asking because some of your questions are puzzling.

 

[Doveaman]

The Lord was here to fulfill the law.. It has been completely fulfilled by Christ. He does not light up the law. He lives in us. It is no longer us trying to live by a law. It is Christ at work in Us conforming us to His Image. When men try to conform themseves to Christ they are walking according to the flesh. It is God who causes us to walk in His statutes.. Not us and our preformance of the law.

Very well said.

 

[MamaZ]

The law is established in us not because we follow the law but because Christ lives in us and has fulfilled the law.. God is the one who causes us to walk in his statutes not the law..

 

[Doveaman]

While I agree with Christ fulfilling.. there are more laws that are not yet fulfilled... they are a shadow of things to come and are the body of Christ.

"there are more laws that... are a shadow of things to come and are the body of Christ"?

What on earth are you talking about?

 

[Doveaman]

The law is established in us not because we follow the law but because Christ lives in us and has fulfilled the law.. God is the one who causes us to walk in his statutes not the law..

Very good, though the term "causes" can at times be misinterpreted to mean we have no choice in the matter (We do).

 

[visionary]

The law is established in us not because we follow the law but because Christ lives in us and has fulfilled the law.. God is the one who causes us to walk in his statutes not the law..

So explain to me the difference between his statutes and his law?

 

[Tu Es Petrus]

That only works if you take the 7-day creation account literally, which no one should. Ony the most extremist Fundies take the "seven days" in the creation account literally, as if Genesis is some sort of scientific document. Those days are just symbolic representations of great epochs in time.

Traditionally, it was Moses - or someone around that time - who wrote the first five books of the OT. Considering the fact that they were under the Mosaic Law, of COURSE they wrote it in terms of "seven days". What else would you expect?

But the fact is, there WAS NO "seventh" day over the billions of years that the earth was formed. So your whole argument is based on a non-existant event.

The Lord God is not mocked. He said seven days, how do you say it was not done in seven days?....

Spare me the righteous indignation. I am not mocking God. If anything, it is you that mock him by reading Geneis in such a ridiculous literallistic way.

The earth is billions of years old. The "Seven days" are "symbolic". That does not mean it is untrue, it simply means that you do not understand the way ancient Semites used imageray and stories to convey truths.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Spare me the righteous indignation. I am not mocking God. If anything, it is you that mock him by reading Geneis in such a ridiculous literallistic way.

The earth is billions of years old. The "Seven days" are "symbolic". That does not mean it is untrue, it simply means that you do not understand the way ancient Semites used imageray and stories to convey truths.

QFT!

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/localflood.html

When you read an English translation of the biblical account of the flood, you will undoubtedly notice many words and verses that seem to suggest that the waters covered all of planet earth.3 However, one should note that today we look at everything from a global perspective, whereas the Bible nearly always refers to local geography. You may not be able to determine this fact from our English translations, so we will look at the original Hebrew, which is the word of God. The Hebrew words which are translated as "whole earth" or "all the earth" are kol (Strong's number H3605), which means "all," and erets (Strong's number H776), which means "earth," "land," "country," or "ground."4 We don't need to look very far in Genesis (Genesis 2) before we find the Hebrew words kol erets.

 

[MamaZ]

So explain to me the difference between his statutes and his law?

Explain to me if you live the law or if Christ lives in you..For His law is established in us.. We do not establish His law.. He is the one who causes us to walk His way.. Not our own doings by our own efforts..

 

[daydreamergurl15]

Spare me the righteous indignation. I am not mocking God. If anything, it is you that mock him by reading Geneis in such a ridiculous literallistic way.

The earth is billions of years old. The "Seven days" are "symbolic". That does not mean it is untrue, it simply means that you do not understand the way ancient Semites used imageray and stories to convey truths.

How is it mocking God when we say that He is so powerful that He created the world in 6 days simply by speaking it into existence? What? Is God not that powerful?

I absolutely love when Moses says in Exodus 20:11
For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.